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  #61  
Old 12-04-2013, 11:53 AM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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"- All five human herpes viruses have been shown in the laboratory to transform normal human cells into cancer cells, though proof that the viruses actually cause cancer in people is still indefinite. Two nonhuman herpes viruses are already established causes of cancer in animals: Marek's disease, a lymphoma of chickens, and kidney cancer in leopard frogs. In addition to cervical cancer, in people herpes viruses are suspected causes of Burkitt's lymphoma, nasopharyngeal carcinoma, and possibly also vulvar cancer, Kaposi's sarcoma (which occurs primarily among homosexual men) and cancer of the prostate and bladder."

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/04/sc...n-viruses.html
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  #62  
Old 12-04-2013, 02:18 PM
CattivaGattina CattivaGattina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Just out of interest, do you inform everyone you come into contact with that youve had a cold or flu recently? You know, for someone who has a compromised immune system, it could kill them. At best, herpes is an unpleasant skin condition.
Yes, I do actually. Work, family, friends partners, new people meet all get told if I'm feeling ill and not get to close or share a drink if they don't want to possibly get ill themselves.
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Woodsmith: My husband
Tighearn: boyfriend/dom
Merry: Tig's wife/slave
N8: Merry's boyfriend/owner
Elle: N8 girlfriend
Ruby: Part of the Leather Family
Logan: Leather Sir in the Family
Arc: Logan's boy
Holly: Leather family
K: Holly's sub

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  #63  
Old 12-04-2013, 03:32 PM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Just out of interest, do you inform everyone you come into contact with that youve had a cold or flu recently? You know, for someone who has a compromised immune system, it could kill them. At best, herpes is an unpleasant skin condition.
The difference in exposing someone to the cold or flu versus herpes (or any STI) is the nature of the contact required for the exposure to take place.

I can expose someone to my cold/flu/pink eye - or get exposed to their cold/flu/pink eye - just by going in the grocery store and touching the grocery cart or a shelve. I don't even have to come in contact with another person to get their virus or leave them mine. In fact, that's how I got pink eye the one and only time I've ever had it as no one that I knew and had been in contact with had it.

However, for me to be exposed to herpes, I would have to be in CLOSE physical contact with an infected person.

And it is my right to choose the level of risk I'm willing to take with my sexual health. No one else should determine for me that herpes is "just" an unpleasant skin condition and knowlingly expose me to it without my consent.
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  #64  
Old 12-04-2013, 07:17 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is offline
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Whoo... it's gettin' hot in here (so hot)... so take off all your clothes...
Forgive me. Just having a little moment. (And taking my clothes off, apparently). What an interesting topic. Hi Scarlet.

Firstly, apologies for the length. I've read through all of the posts here and this is what I’ve picked up on:

- Hubby gets involved with women who aren't respectful / possibly harmful
- Hubby hates to end connections
- Hubby has a tendency to keep things from you
- Hubby possesses poor judgment of character
- You feel unprotected, invalidated, resentful, hurt; you feel Hubby doesn't have your back
- You struggle to let things go
- You are accused of being controlling

I would genuinely like to start off by saying that I do completely understand your feelings. I have been in your shoes and I wholly empathise with the feeling that your partner's partner may be attempting (or even managing) to a) badmouth you freely and b) come between you. Everything I say here is with kindness. I do not know you, your husband, or the other girl(s). I will play devil's advocate and I will try to get you to ask questions you may not have asked; not at all through any judgment, but simply in the hopes of helping you to find a solution.

So, a few thoughts/questions:

What if your husband simply isn't a zero tolerance kind of guy? What if your husband thinks it's ok for you to speak your mind to him, and for his girlfriend(s) to speak their mind to him? What if he doesn't feel it's right to defend you? Have you both explored *why* your hubby has an issue with keeping things from you? Is he scared of the conflict? Does he just want what he wants, regardless? Is he impulsive, digs a hole, then doesn’t know how to get out of it? Does he feel forced into a corner, and does he resent having to have given up the friendship in the first place? If you are worried that what you perceive to be poor judgement on hubby’s part will leave one, or both, of you in danger, how can you measure warning signs of behaviour that is unsafe?

- Validation
If your hubby actually validated your feelings, do you think that would help? Could you think of things that don’t involve violating his limits, but that only focus on yours being heard? For example, instead of asking him to cut contact (violating his limits on ending connections), could you say “You don’t have to defend me to her, or get rid of her. The most important thing is that you and I are ok. Could you promise to talk to me if there is any truth in what she is saying?” This puts it back on you, and your relationship. This is even more productive, because you’re solidifying the trust, respect and love between you. In taking this approach, you may even find that your husband stands up for you all by himself. Alternatively, you could tell him that if someone does it in the future, you expect him to at least tell them to take it up with you directly. The same will go for yourself – you must directly take it to his girlfriend(s) and not talk about them to him.

- Struggle to let go / controlling
Have you turned this question inwards and asked why you are being accused of being controlling? I’m confused as to how the girl has formed this conclusion. Any chance hubby has told her that you are? Did hubby place the blame on you for the STI thing? Have you ever prevented anything between them? Are you capable of being overbearing?

- Resentment / impossible ideals
Your written agreement – I do understand your frustration. However, a solution is a positive action. If you broke your arm because you slipped on a wet floor with no wet floor sign, you'd get first aid, right? After the arm is in a sling, you might think “oh well” and do nothing, or you might set out to sue the company with the wet floor. Neither approach is right or wrong. But does either approach change the fact that the arm is going to heal? Would either approach heal it faster? It’s the same thing with your agreement. It's the first aid for your relationship. Focus on how to administer it, not that you needed it to be administered.

- Drama
Is there any chance that you are just as culpable for getting sucked into drama as your hubby is? When the girl sent hubby that poem, why did you Google it, if I may ask? Why not just wash your hands of it and walk away? I am absolutely, 100% *not* saying that this is your fault. At all. What I am trying to do is get you to ask yourself questions. Not because I think your conduct is wrong; but because I don’t believe in asking other people to change their behaviour for us. We can wish for something, but we can't impose it. I might wish that my GF would end a connection that I don't find healthy, but I can't tell or ask her to do so. I can only change the way I deal with it, or decide that I don't want to be in the situation any more.

Suggestions:

The first question to ask yourself is this: are you trying to make a lion out of a bluebird? Is your hubby simply not the type to end connections easily? Is he more passive? What are the bonuses of these personality traits? What if he wanted you to be less lion and more bluebird? Could you do it? Is there a middle ground?

The middle ground might be this:

- Three strikes and you’re out. Not zero tolerance, because your tolerance level is lower than his, and you are going to end up in another situation where you think something is unforgivable, and he sees the 50 shades of grey. Three strikes. Three chances. That gives him some leeway and gives you an end point. Write down what the examples of a strike are now. Be specific. It has to be measurable and agreed upon.

- More autonomy. Don’t get involved with women he dates. Stay out of it completely. Don’t befriend her, don’t hang out with her. Is that an option?

- Less sharing. Opt out of hearing about the latest drama. Opt out of hearing about his girlfriend(s) opinions of you. Opt out of giving your opinion about his girlfriend(s).

- Transparency. Get to the bottom of why your husband hides things. Find out how to foster an environment in which he has the balls to tell you the truth, and has the balls to deal with the consequences. Find the balls to listen and understand when he wants to keep a connection, against all odds.

- Limits. If you absolutely cannot have women like this in *his* life, say it now. If you want to be friends with his partners, and want a more couple-centric approach, say it now. It may mean that you each get to give the green, amber or red light on every new relationship. The carte blanche, as it were. Is that an option?

- Practice productive communication. Try out a technique with a formula for getting through issues. 1) state feelings 2) partner repeats what they understand and offers validation and empathy 3) partner offers explanations and other viewpoints 4) brainstorm solutions or comprises based on win-win, rather than win-lose.
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Me: (30f) open poly
GF: (40f) My long-term, long-distance partner

Metamours:
Hubby (37m): GF's husband
Garcon (26m): GF's submissive/third partner



“Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." ~ Buddha
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  #65  
Old 12-04-2013, 07:56 PM
AnonymousMe AnonymousMe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
The difference in exposing someone to the cold or flu versus herpes (or any STI) is the nature of the contact required for the exposure to take place.

...

And it is my right to choose the level of risk I'm willing to take with my sexual health. No one else should determine for me that herpes is "just" an unpleasant skin condition and knowlingly expose me to it without my consent.
Not to mention the duration of the illness. The flu I would get over in a few short weeks, herpes I would have, oh, you know, for life (the one and only that I have, btw). There is kind of a difference there.

(This part is for london specifically.)
Plus, the whole argument of "being able to kill someone with the flu" thing and then saying "I think I would be upfront if I had herpes" kind of smacks of hypocrisy. I mean, lets look at the potential complications of an immunocompromised person getting herpes: pneumonia, inflammation of the esophagus, encephalitis, destruction of the adrenal glands, disseminated herpes, liver damage. Yeah, that sounds like an "inconvenient skin disease" (post #43) when compared to the flu for poly networks with immunocompromised people involved.

Plus, I think that your approach to de-stigmatizing herpes carriers is a little off the mark. Being upfront, educated, and honest and then letting others make educated decisions for themselves is the right way to go about things. Downplaying a life long disease with its own risks and complications, stating that even you (an apparently well educated and articulate person) only might disclose their herpes status, and calling others on 'discrimination' for deciding how they want to live their own lives (which is one of the foundations of poly is it not??) is all pretty much the opposite of what you want to do.

Because of your attitude and outlook on this disease, I for one know that I am now going to be much less trusting of people. Thank you, you have convinced me to be more careful and thorough in my attempts to go through life HSV-1 and HSV-2 free.

OP, sorry for continuing the derailment of your thread. I think the importance of honesty about STI status within the poly community is important enough to continue the off-topic conversation though.
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  #66  
Old 12-04-2013, 08:18 PM
london london is offline
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The risks of herpes in an immunocompromised patient are the same as them contracting the flu. If you are going to take a set of measures to prevent them getting herpes, it would only be logical for you to take the same measures to stop them getting the flu. As someone rightly stated, you can get the flu from anyone at anytime without even having close contact with them.

I haven't been diagnosed with herpes or any other lifelong STD so I can only honestly say that I think I would disclose if I did have one. I think disclosing is the right thing to do, but I also know how stigma works and the influence that has on someone's likelihood to disclose.

Quote:
Being upfront, educated, and honest and then letting others make educated decisions for themselves is the right way to go about things
When people continually refuse to educate themselves, refute any information you try and provide and persevere with their stigma around sexually transmitted disease, honesty can become less attractive, regardless of how "right" it is.
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  #67  
Old 12-05-2013, 01:28 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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The OP has requested that we not use this thread to discuss STI transmission in poly relationships.

There are numerous existing threads on the topic. If you wish to continue this discussion, please look them up and continue it there. Or if herpes is such a hot button topic for you, please start a thread about that specifically.

Here, I'll get you started. Fun sex / Safe sex

Continuing to discuss this here is a blatant admission that you are incapable of basic respect and self-control.
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  #68  
Old 12-05-2013, 06:46 AM
london london is offline
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This post is/was about STDs. The other woman freaked out because she felt she was unfairly discriminated against for having a common viral STD. People have and still are commenting on the control and trust issues. I've said what I have to say but I will be answering any posts addressed to me in this thread about any aspect of the OP.
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  #69  
Old 12-05-2013, 05:45 PM
scarletzinnia scarletzinnia is offline
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Thanks so much, sparklepop. It is really fantastic to really be heard and understood here, and you did that very well.

I like the lion-bluebird analogy you had. I don't think I can be a bluebird, no. The situation we had some years back with his first poly experience with the woman who threatened me, changed me. I will always be more vigilant, more suspicious, and much less tolerant of people who cause drama and discord and who bring danger into my life. I can't be anything but a lion, and I don't think I should be, we have kids and I will do just about anything to ensure that they are safe and finish growing up in a home that has both their parents in it.

With regards to limits, I feel I made it crystal clear since his first poly experience that I cannot tolerate drama and craziness and attacks on me from his partners or would-be partners. I do not need to be pals with them, but I do insist on respect of me and our relationship.

I think the control issue came up because my husband made it very clear to his friend that I was not at all OK with her failure to disclose her STD status and would have done everything in my power to halt them being sexual together in the unlikely event that he decided the risk was worth it.

With regards to their day to day relationship, I was pretty much hands off. They had some dates, I think about five or six total (she was very busy), one on one, and I socialized with the two of them plus some other people on three or four occasions. Those occasions we were together were all perfectly happy, no tension at all. I spent one girls night out with her and some other women, where I tried to communicate with her at a deeper level than social pleasantries, but she smoked a lot of weed that night so deeper communication didn't really work. Outside of that one night, I didn't have any one-on-one communication with her to speak of, but she chose that, not me, I was very open to being friends and to communicating with her on Facebook or by any other method she chose, and let her know that.

I do not know where she got the idea I was abusing him.

He says he didn't complain to her about me, ever, and I believe him. He did tell her he had done things in our relationship that he regretted a great deal, but he said he didn't give her any details of those.

Vis a vis the poem, it just seemed so phony that I couldn't resist looking it up. I was pretty angry at that point, and I love online research.

Last edited by scarletzinnia; 12-05-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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  #70  
Old 12-05-2013, 05:45 PM
scarletzinnia scarletzinnia is offline
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Schroedinger'sCat, thanks for your post and for the fun and insightful graphic you posted earlier. I don't get why the mods chose to take it down, and I am saddened that it was. There are a lot of ways to reduce conflict in threads without resorting to censorship.

Last edited by scarletzinnia; 12-05-2013 at 06:11 PM.
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