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  #11  
Old 08-20-2009, 09:46 PM
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arpeggi arpeggi is offline
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I really wish I could drop my emotions and be capable of moving on. I'm not capable of hurting someone so deeply, and I'm actually afraid of what would happen to Lily.

If I said that, "I'll hate to lose you, but I must be true to my own nature", Lily would let me. She would obviously try to change my mind but she wants me to be happy. And maybe I would do it if I thought I would be happier, but I'm happier with Lily than with no one at all.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2009, 10:45 PM
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No one has said to drop your emotions. Only to defuse and eliminate the drama. The only way to do that is by doing what JRiver suggests. Emotions typically cannot be turned on and off like a light switch.

I for one, can empathize with having to "drop" a person who cannot be poly. Although I guess he did the "dropping". He and I are still friends and yes, I still love him passionately, but I know that at this point in time, there is no possibility of he and I having a romantic relationship. (for more info see Long Info Dump Vent)

And as I think of it, just because there is no possibility of the romantic relationship now doesn't mean that there may not be one in the future (couple years or more even) after individuals have learned more about themselves and what they truly want and what they will do and accept and also not accept. This is not an "age" thing, this is an experience thing.

Don't spend all your time and all your life wishing, wishing you could be yourself, wishing you could have both of the loves of your life, wishing that they would accept you for who and what you are, wishing you could be what one wants without hurting the other. Wishing is supposed to lead to action, if it does not then you stagnate and stagnation leads to death. Maybe not physical but emotional for sure.

Good luck and welcome to the forums.
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  #13  
Old 08-20-2009, 10:49 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Sounds like a tough situation indeed. I don't think anyone here can offer you a magic solution. There are solutions, but it seems that all of them are going to be very hard.

I can only offer some perspectives on relationships that I've learned in my own experiences.

First: You are not responsible for Lily's or Daliah's happiness. Nobody is responsible for anyone else's happiness. That is for each person to determine themselves. They can draw happiness from your company, but it is not your job or place to "make" someone happy.

Second: That said, you do have a reponsiblility to be open and honest with your partners and with yourself. Unfortunately, sometimes that honesty means admitting some very hard things and letting go of others. I get the sense that both you and these partners are really trying to hang onto something in the hopes that it'll change when there is little chance of that. That's where the hard, open honesty comes in.

Third: It is possible for two people to love each other deeply yet still not be right for each other in a relationship. And that's OK.

Sometimes the hardest lesson to learn in love is the art of letting go of our expectations. Sometimes we meet a wonderful person and we just want it all from them. We want our lives to be completely wrapped around each other. But then the pain sets in when our lives aren't a good fit. Then the pain overshadows all the good and wonderful things about that person touching our lives until everything we feel for that person is somehow attached to pain. And therein the drama just grows and feeds on itself.

But if we just let go of the expectations and appreciate the goodness of them being in our lives without the wishing for more things that aren't there, we start to see even more depth and richness in the relationship. We start seeing the relationship and each other in terms of what's there and not in terms of what's missing.

It sounds like there are a few things to let go of in your relationships with these particular women. That doesn't mean necessarily letting go of them, but I'm sure you know that what you're hanging onto at the moment just isn't sustainable.

Best of luck to you!
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2009, 12:52 AM
XYZ123 XYZ123 is offline
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I just want to add that you shouldn't allow anyone to degrade you for your way of loving. You didn't use, lie to, cheat on, or intentionally hurt either of these women. You allowed them to be with you with their eyes wide open, even if their hearts cannot fully accept what you can and what you cannot offer. This is something a user or a cheat would never do. Causing pain is a terrible thing. But pain caused with honesty, and that is a double-edged sword, is much different than pain caused by lies and by hiding your true self. There isn't anything wrong or bad about you. There isn't anything wrong or bad about them. You're simply different.
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  #15  
Old 08-21-2009, 01:06 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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^ Yeah, what she said!
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  #16  
Old 08-21-2009, 02:16 AM
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@Vandalin:

Hope is what we seem to be living on. How you are are with your love, perhaps in a few years sort of thing, is what we are doing, or is happening, anyway.


@Ceoli:

Thank you, that seems like advice I have the guts to take. Something definitely needs to change, or we just need to take a mental step back and look at things differently.

@XYZ123:

When Dahlia's 'friend' was harassing me, I was already consumed by my emotions and didn't stop her. I know now that nothing she was saying was true, I even knew the day after, but at the moment I felt I was getting what I deserved.

And though I know that we are just different (i certainly tell Lily every time she is upset and feels not good enough), and that no one is at fault, I still have trouble accepting that I've had such a negative effect on people I care about.
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  #17  
Old 08-21-2009, 05:54 AM
Nyx Nyx is offline
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Wow this situation sounds very similar to what my bf has dealt with in the last few years. I think I can talk from the perspective of your ladies because I am with a man who is poly and I am not.

My bf first discovered his poly nature about 6 years ago and in that time he had many different scenarios similar to the one you are in: he would have a gf...then meet another one, the first one would be hurt but agreed to let him do whatever because she loved him, then the second one would be hurt because he wouldn't leave the first one, both girls wanting his happiness as well as their own, everyone in pain and confused......

He got through it. You can too. Not to cast a dim light on your future, but my bf is no longer with any of the girls he had these scenarios with (I would estimate about 6-8 girls involved at various times in a 6 year period). Some of them he no longer speaks to (or rather they no longer speak to him - he loves them all still and would like to be friends), BUT some of them are his closest friends now.

Many of them were truly monogamous and could not change that. Some of them were poly themselves but wanted different things. Then you have me, who started off VERY MUCH monogamous (the thought of my bf with others tormented me and I still feel a bit queasy, but it's getting better every day), and after literally MONTHS of pain and anguish, arguments, anger, confusion, etc etc etc....

I am glad to say that I am leaning toward being poly myself now. I am open to starting my own second relationships, but not pushing towards that as a goal. I had to work through all this myself, I did a HUGE amount of self-discovery and analysis. Your girls will have to as well. Be there for them, and if they are willing to try it, be compassionate towards them. My bf had the patience of a saint when dealing with my bitter and psycho shenanigans. I love him even more for that. He really stuck with me.

My bf tried to be mono with me, he realized it was not making him happy so he moved out. We remained a couple, only now he continues to date other women. He has not yet fallen in love with anyone new and has not been physical with anyone, but I have faith in myself to be ok with that when it happens and move on with my own life. I love my bf so very much and even though I will have to share him, and we have very little time spent together since he moved out (we are both extremely busy) I enjoy what we do have.

It sounds to me like you are perhaps young (in high school? college? I will assume high school since you talk about going to the same schools) and love during your teens/twenties is always firey and die hard. Love can be all consuming and exhaust you. Simmer down, and know that even though we feel we could never live without a person in our lives, we CAN. I can remember many times when I felt that way about someone. And when they were gone, I felt I would myself die. But I am still here and I am fine.

Not trying to steal your post but I felt an explanation of my situation might help give you hope that things will work themselves out. Like my bf, you may lose them all. The choice is theirs in a way. You love them. You want them both. It is up to them whether they stay with you through that or not.

Perhaps you might tell them this: that it is their decision. They are the ones who need to work through their emotions, their doubts, their pain and find the truth in the situation. You, yourself, cannot turn off your love for these girls because eventually you will end up "cheating" like you have already done. That does no one any good. The point of being openly poly with them is to keep things honest - do not hide your feelings. If you hide your love for one girl from another girl, in a way that is a form of cheating.

It is a painful process. You will get through it and so will they.
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  #18  
Old 08-21-2009, 05:19 PM
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Wow, that is such a fantastic glimmer of hope, thank you so much Nyx. I'm going to tell Lily of your story, if that's okay? She could definitely use the knowledge that someone has come out the other end of our same situation and is happy and sane.
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  #19  
Old 08-21-2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arpeggi View Post
I really wish I could drop my emotions and be capable of moving on. I'm not capable of hurting someone so deeply, and I'm actually afraid of what would happen to Lily.
If I said that, "I'll hate to lose you, but I must be true to my own nature", Lily would let me. She would obviously try to change my mind but she wants me to be happy. And maybe I would do it if I thought I would be happier, but I'm happier with Lily than with no one at all.
Arpeggi,
I can't improve on the information that has been given to you by the other folks that have responded to this thread. Excellent information from all! The thing that caught my attention in your above quote is that you make this statement as though you are an objective observer concerned with only the feelings of the others involved. It's your feelings........for yourself.......that I think you are most concerned with. As J pointed out you want your cake and eat it too. It is not my intention to be harsh. It is all but impossible to mold someone against their own nature just to meet your needs and goals. I think what is going on here is that you, and perhaps Lily, are sitting on the dead center of the fence. Indecision is in fact a decision. It's the type of choice that we make when we want to avoid pain.
The difference is that the pain that results from getting off the fence brings about resolution and healing. The pain that results from indecision and staying on the fence is ongoing and never ending. It's avoidance of what needs to be done for both you and the women in your life. In a very real sense the next move is yours, and yours alone. I hope you choose to bring about resolution and healing.
Barry
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  #20  
Old 08-21-2009, 11:54 PM
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What a story and such passion!

Everyone has had such great responses! NYX, it was great to here more of your story especially... I love hearing peoples stories. It's why I love being here!

Arpeggi my friend, you are a good writer, very passionate and a very deep emotional man. I admire that in you. You should be very proud of who you are in this world. Passionate people are generally frowned upon, but I can tell you, from one passionate person to the other, that we are really appreciated too. We bring the fire to any situation and it's fire that brings energy.

My concern is that you will use your passion to do as I did in my past in the days when poly was not in existence, and that is become a serial monogamist, and a cheater. I hurt many with my actions thinking that I would make my life easier if I just cheated and hoped not to get caught. I was so wrong, it damaged ME in the end far more than those I cheated on and I have spent years recovering... it becomes addictive too when you get away with things. That addiction still haunts me. I need good and hard rules now to keep me on the path (my own ones and from others).... which is why I dish out hard rules to others one here!

There is absolutely no way you can go wrong with sticking to your needs, respecting yourself as you are, considering and taking doors that open for you and keeping others in mind (harming none and helping all). There is so much going on for each person involved, you have no control over that and will never know all the details.... so keep it simple and look after yourself first. The rest will follow. It seems you are in need of knowing yourself more and understanding what it means to love others FOR YOU! Perhaps a break from all of it would be better... some recoup time and a chance to gain your strength back and learn from what you have experienced. There is so much time to get it right one day. There is no way to get it right than to take time to reflect and give some space to the situation. You sound like me in that your love for others never dies..... you will be amazed at what happens if you leave things alone for awhile and leave them up to fate. The most beautiful things and the best answers come out of it.

Give yourself a hug, stand tall, clear your head, take a breath, feel your emotions in side of your body, check what your gut says and move forward from that.... for me that has never done me wrong in the end.

good luck sweets.... I will be rooting for you.
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