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  #11  
Old 02-11-2011, 08:19 AM
Purpurea Purpurea is offline
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Why he picked her is simply because he didn't want to lose her in the first place. It has nothing to do with the distance. If I had been in her position, he would have done the same for me, he said. Which makes the whole thing a little extra absurd to me. I want to mention though that he didn't have close relationships before, and no one would ever expect anyone to do everything right when they do things for the first time.

I'm not sure if I get the second part of the question right, but for me having sex with someone is something between me and the person I have sex with. It has nothing to do with her and I'm not taking anything away from her. Of course, it will probably hurt her a lot and I feel very sorry about that, but I refuse to feel responsible for it. She thinks that me having sex with him might change his feelings for her, which is not the truth, so I'm not willing to act as if it was. I will not ask for anyone else's permission if I want to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me too, just make sure that other people I was romantically involved with, would know. That might sound quite radical and coldhearted, but I couldn't be further away from not caring about other people's feelings. I just can't and won't take over responsibility for how they feel. I think it's not ok though that although he has a monogamous relationship with her, he has sex with someone else, that it happened behind her back, and that he hasn't told her yet. But I think he already started lying to himself and to her when he agreed to become her boyfriend, making her feel as if she were more important to him than me. Hope that answers your question?

Last edited by Purpurea; 02-11-2011 at 10:31 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-11-2011, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Purpurea View Post
Of course, it will probably hurt her a lot and I feel very sorry about that, but I refuse to feel responsible for it.
I'm sorry but this statement actually makes me feel sad. I've heard this before in our poly groups and I honestly was taken back when,in between speaking about expanded love, someone says this. I can't help but ask myself what the world would look like if nation did whatever they wanted and didn't look at the impact it has on others or take responsibility for how they affected them.
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  #13  
Old 02-11-2011, 05:16 PM
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for me having sex with someone is something between me and the person I have sex with. It has nothing to do with her and I'm not taking anything away from her. Of course, it will probably hurt her a lot and I feel very sorry about that, but I refuse to feel responsible for it. She thinks that me having sex with him might change his feelings for her, which is not the truth, so I'm not willing to act as if it was. I will not ask for anyone else's permission if I want to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me too, just make sure that other people I was romantically involved with, would know. That might sound quite radical and coldhearted, but I couldn't be further away from not caring about other people's feelings. I just can't and won't take over responsibility for how they feel. I think it's not ok though that although he has a monogamous relationship with her, he has sex with someone else, that it happened behind her back, and that he hasn't told her yet. But I think he already started lying to himself and to her when he agreed to become her boyfriend, making her feel as if she were more important to him than me. Hope that answers your question?
thanks, that does answer my question. Your perspective is interesting. Have you ever been cheated on by someone you believed was fidelous with you? If so, has it worked for you to own your emoitions and expect nothing from your partner or anyone else involved? Is this a common thought in your circle, your culture? I'm seriously interested because I have been toid that it is in some cultures. That it is expected that people will cheat.
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Last edited by redpepper; 02-11-2011 at 05:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-11-2011, 06:22 PM
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So we are friends now, and so far it works "perfectly" as he has cheated on her with me a couple of times already
Then you're just engaged in bad monogamy--cheating isn't poly.

You'll need full knowledge and consent of all parties for it to be poly.
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:43 PM
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@Mono: I'm sorry that it makes you sad. I think, I get your point, but I'm not sure if you really get mine. Treating others with love and respect is a very important value for me, if not the most important one. That means I do not take away things that belong to others, I do not harm anyone, and I help wherever I can. But I can't keep people from feeling hurt by what I do anyway. Anyone is free to leave my life if they can't handle being in it. So that's actually not at all the scenario you create. If I was a nation I would not invade other countries, or try to make them live the way I live. But I would not change the way I live either, if for instance another country felt offended that in my country everyone drives red cars because red is a bad color for them. I would offer to talk to the other country and try to explain why red is no evil color for us, and hope they will understand and accept it. But I would not change the color of the cars, even if they continued to feel offended.

Just another example: My husband felt hurt by me wanting to establish another equally close relationship with another man. Should I have stopped seeing my friend? Yes, I should have, if my husband's fears had been true, that seeing my friend would really have affected my feelings for my husband or the way I treated him, given of course that I wanted to remain close with my husband too. So I have not stopped seeing my friend, because my husband's fears were not true. The thing he was scared of simply didn't exist anywhere else but in his head.

If my friend's girlfriend came to me to talk about it, I would not push her away and say: "It's your problem, not mine. Go away, I don't care." I would instead offer her to sit down with her, listen to her, tell her that I truly understand how much it hurts (and trust me, I do!), and try to explain my perspective. I also offered my husband to hold him whenever he felt bad about my other relationship, talk to him a lot about it, going through these feelings together. That's all I can do, I'm afraid. I just don't want to act according to other people's misbeliefs, just to keep them calm. That would not be what I understand by true love.

That might sound paradox, but I hope that I could make my point a little more understandable anyway

@redpepper: No, I have never been cheated on by someone, at least not that someone had sex behind my back. Sure people did other things behind my back though, so I know what it feels like. And no, my perspective isn't common here. I had read about the concept of taking over full responsibility for how you feel before and it sounded interesting to me, but I've actually just started to fully understand what it means with the things that happened to me recently with my husband and my friend. It's not easy for me either to take over responsibility for my emotions now, it has actually caused me a lot of pain, but it's slowly getting better now. So yes, for me it seems to work for now
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  #16  
Old 02-11-2011, 06:51 PM
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Long distance relationships -- UGH!!! Could never work for me unless it was definitely a temporary situation and there was a definite end to the separation. I know myself too well.

I've thought many times in my life about my responsibility to another woman, when the man they believe is committed to them, is interested in me.

There is so much in our culture that says people are possessions. I know I have had jealous feelings in my life -- but I have always recognized jealousy as an immature emotion, which can be reasoned away by the dedication to loving freely and wholeheartedly. I am not tooting my own horn -- it's just been something automatic. Not EASY, but something that I have always felt called to. Now I know there is a name for it: COMPERSION. I will strive for it for the rest of my life. And I want to surround myself with people who are committed to it, as well. I admire everyone on this forum who struggles in any way to reach this common goal. I believe we are all to be given great credit for our attempts. And even our failures! This is the greatest growth I have ever seen in myself and others. I am so proud to know all of you.

Anyway, it's confusing -- how responsible are we, for whom and to whom? How much "loyalty" is there, to the sisterhood/brotherhood? To the institution of marriage? To the commitments people have made to other people? And how do we balance that with the love we feel in our hearts for someone, especially when that love is returned, even though it may interfere with or outright destroy another relationship???

I remember one time in high school, a friend's boyfriend drove me home from a party. I had always thought he was cute, but we had never really talked, I didn't know him at all really. Well, he kissed me in my driveway. It was fun! We were young and curious, I was flattered that he thought I was pretty and was attracted enough to want to kiss me. But then it was, "goodnight, thanks for the ride," and nothing else but a little ego boost for both of us, I guess. Neither of us wanted anything more.
Days later of course the word got out -- he probably bragged to one of his friends in the locker room. I was called a slut by my friend and her circle of friends, and she never spoke to me again.

Granted, the stakes are much higher when you are an adult, married, parenting, sharing each other's homes, finances, etc. But the lessons get taught EARLY.

I still have a hard time watching a monogamous relationship SUCK and the one who "cheats" looking like the asshole, when really maybe it was the relationship that was cheating THEM.

Note I said the relationship, not the PERSON. Sometimes there are certain things that cannot be met in one relationship that can be met in another. And, I realize I would be BLASTED by the mainstream for a lot of what I'm saying! Really it's all just my musings...

Last edited by Carma; 02-11-2011 at 06:54 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-11-2011, 10:12 PM
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To me its a matter of integrity and what I would expect from others. If someone has told me that they are going to be faithful to me I expect that. If they then aren't then I don't trust them and eventually its possibly over if that is not rebuilt. If someone I am with is not acting with integrity and respect to someone else I wouldn't trust them either. I would assume they would not be faithful to me either.

Sure, taking care of yourself is important, but sometimes that means taking care of others first. Being compassionate, respectful, considerate; these are important qualities to have, especially in terms of poly. To me this is how love multiplies and restores faith and brings people together. I suppose it depends on what the aim is. Mine is purely about increasing positive interactions with others; therefore I will do everything I am consciously capable of doing before acting. I try not to act out of fear of repercussion or someone saying no to what I suggest, what I want/need. I try to communicte what is going on for me and find out what is going on for others before acting.

This forum is filled with the type of behaviour of which I speak. I am interested to know how it works to go about doing whatever you want without thought or regard for anothers feelings in an active way. Perhaps I have something to look at.

I wonder how long my loves would stay with me if I decided I would act on my own behalf only. Its important to have long term close loves in my life. I wonder how they would adjust? I wonder how I would adjust to them acting this way? Not well I'm sure. I would lose it. All my fears of abandonment would come up, my feelings of worth, my feelings of belonging, being worthy of respect. I akin my commitments to those I love as a child does to its parents. I trust that they would have my best interest in mind when I commit to being with them. If they cheated, something fragile, vulnerable and precious would be lost. My heart would break.

Hm, lots to think about. Thanks for this oppprtunity.

Oh, one more question, have you met this woman? Sorry, you might of said already. Is she someone you have come across face to face and seen how the two of them interact? Have you and her had a chance to create some kind of metamour relationship. Well friendship really as he is your friend, not lover. Or is this coming when she comes to visit.

Have you read any other threads on here? There are a lot of good ones on here about peoples experiences with cheating; from all sides. If you do a tag search for "cheating" you will find them. "Foundations" and " lessons" warrant a good tag search also if you are interested in learning about poly. Mohegan has a good blog in the lifestyles section that might be interesting. All good info and points of view. Thanks for adding yours.
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  #18  
Old 02-11-2011, 10:32 PM
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I used to think the way you do. I've fucked more than a few married men, or men in committed relationships, who were cheating on their partners with me. I would say, "I'm not the one cheating. If they have a problem in their relationship, it's not my fault. He projected an available vibe, it's not my responsibility how he relates to her."

But you know, if I let him stick his dick in me and that is the reason why he lies to her, I am indeed the problem. Plain and simple. Now that I am older and somewhat wiser, I know that I NEVER, ever want to be the reason a partner is dishonest to someone they love. Fuck that. I'd rather walk away completely, including from the so-called "friendship," than be a party to that.

You put a cute little emoticon in this statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpurea View Post
So we are friends now, and so far it works "perfectly" as he has cheated on her with me a couple of times already He keeps thinking it's a personal weakness and he just has to become stronger to resist me.
So, it seems you are amused by his behavior, and flattered by being the one he cheats on her with, so you throw up your hands and say, "Not my responsibility." But, you're so wrong. You are the other woman in a dishonest monogamous relationship. No one is poly here.

I think it would benefit you to take a look at why you are okay with this kind of thing. What do you get out of it?
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Last edited by nycindie; 02-11-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-12-2011, 12:12 AM
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Yes I have done that too... had an affair with a married man. I didn't know he was cheating. He said she was all okay. I never checked in with her to see if it was the truth and a whole load of shit got thrown at the fan when she found out... It took a year and to sort out and a whole lot of pain that I still resonate with to this day. I can only imagine that it still holds heavy in her heart too if I still feel it. Still, I am not everyone, I have noticed that what I feel is a common theme though
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:12 PM
Purpurea Purpurea is offline
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So, it seems you are amused by his behavior, and flattered by being the one he cheats on her with, so you throw up your hands and say, "Not my responsibility." But, you're so wrong. You are the other woman in a dishonest monogamous relationship. No one is poly here.
Well, no, I'm actually not amused or flattered at all. I used that emoticon () to express irony, that in fact it's not working perfectly at all. I think I've already pointed out why I consider this not to be my responsibility and why I chose the title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper
I wonder how long my loves would stay with me if I decided I would act on my own behalf only. Its important to have long term close loves in my life. I wonder how they would adjust? I wonder how I would adjust to them acting this way? Not well I'm sure. I would lose it. All my fears of abandonment would come up, my feelings of worth, my feelings of belonging, being worthy of respect. I akin my commitments to those I love as a child does to its parents. I trust that they would have my best interest in mind when I commit to being with them. If they cheated, something fragile, vulnerable and precious would be lost. My heart would break.
The thing is, we are no children any longer. Children are dependent from their parents, adults in our cultures are not dependent from their partners, although they often act as if. We will not die when our partners cheat on us, it doesn't even keep us from becoming happy, if we don't let it. So, if we are scared that others could cheat on us, we make us emotionally dependent from them, we keep this fear in us alive, that if they cheat on us we won't be able to handle it. But the truth is, we can handle it. It's not nice to be cheated on, but it's no catastrophe either, if we don't make it one. Or in terms of karma: It's bad for their karma, not for ours. But worrying about being cheated on and being devastated when it happens, is bad for our karma.

I have this kind of relationship with him, that we try not to make to other one responsible for how we feel, or take over responsibility for the other one's feelings. I can say that it is pretty tough at times, so many negative feelings come up. But it's a great challenge. We have only lasted a year so far, but I can also say that this has been the most valuable relationship in my life so far. I've grown so incredibly much by being forced to finally take care of myself and especially the parts of myself I had locked away. It's the same for him. It's an amazing learning experience for both of us, it has done so much for our inner healing, I like it

The funny thing with karma is, that often things are the complete opposite of what we commonly think they are. It's interesting how much everyone stresses the cheating part of this story. That's the commonly accepted view, and how most people would react. I would have said the same things not too long ago. In my opinion now though, in terms of karma (truth, enlightment, or whatever you want to call it), it was loveless of her to ask him to become her boyfriend when she felt she couldn't handle his relationship with me. And it was loveless of him to accept it. The cheating was just the natural consequence of this behavior, something that made the contradiction visible, if you want to put it that way. Without the cheating, it would be exactly the same lie, just covered a little better.
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