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  #71  
Old 02-10-2011, 08:00 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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but we do need to budge a little and grow and learn .
The question is...to what ends? That is our ultimate dilemma is it not? Growing and learning are words used to describe what goal?

If I may, can a play a bit of devil's advocate? I could be wrong but when I read this I think that budging, growing and learning are directly related to me relaxing my boundaries around men entering our lives. To me (and I would suspect a lot of mono people) that would not be growth...but a sacrifice that I will ultimately have to look very hard at if I am to be in your life the way I am today. What else could these words refer to in the context of this thread?
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:29 AM
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The question is...to what ends? That is our ultimate dilemma is it not? Growing and learning are words used to describe what goal?

If I may, can a play a bit of devil's advocate? I could be wrong but when I read this I think that budging, growing and learning are directly related to me relaxing my boundaries around men entering our lives. To me (and I would suspect a lot of mono people) that would not be growth...but a sacrifice that I will ultimately have to look very hard at if I am to be in your life the way I am today. What else could these words refer to in the context of this thread?
The goal is to move in life. Life is a continuous cycle of growth and learning. That is all their is really... that and what we do with the cycle. The goal is increased knowledge without an agenda. At least this is my way of thinking of it...

You can take what I say however you want Mono. Perhaps there is something in looking at that. Why you would look at what I say in terms of me insisting that you relax your boundaries about me having other men enter our lives together? What makes you think that this is my first thought? What is behind that? I asked you today what is behind all this for you and you don't have an answer for me... you don't seem to understand my question.

To me there is stuff going on behind the veil of all this. We just haven't gotten to the root of it in order to pluck it out. I am putting it out there, but haven't received any answers. I am not suggesting that anything change with the answer, just that looking for something more might be helpful in understanding one another.
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  #73  
Old 02-10-2011, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
The question is...to what ends? That is our ultimate dilemma is it not? Growing and learning are words used to describe what goal?

If I may, can a play a bit of devil's advocate? I could be wrong but when I read this I think that budging, growing and learning are directly related to me relaxing my boundaries around men entering our lives. To me (and I would suspect a lot of mono people) that would not be growth...but a sacrifice that I will ultimately have to look very hard at if I am to be in your life the way I am today. What else could these words refer to in the context of this thread?
Correct me if I am wrong RP - but I think you meant that both of you need to grow and learn... just as Mono needs to find a way to allow you to be yourself in complete freedom, and trust that you will not behave in ways to damage yourself or your relationship with him... RP also needs to grow and learn how to achieve that within herself, how to feel that freedom to be herself within the confines of what Mono is comfortable with...

having said that... there seems to be a great deal of work that needs to be done here, and the control factor from Mono is a huge red flag for me personally... however that is a trigger point for me and may not be a problem for RP or anyone else...

It is highly likely that Mono will feel like there is more stretching and growing to do on his side of the fence as very much the boundaries of a mono relationship require exclusivity from the partner... without that - the physical relationship is devalued.... in this case there are other members involved - but clearly the exclusive tag applies to no new sexual male partners after Mono... whether or not RP pursues something here or not - this is an issue that is highly likely to crop up again in the future...

However, that is very much a control thing... what each partner does should not be under the control of the other, or at least the depth of the committed relationship should not be in jeopardy because one partner acts on their own (known and accepted) nature... I don't know if my wording here works for what I am trying to get across...

I am very interested in the conversation and ideas pouring out on this thread - it is very valuable to all of us in mono/poly relationships...


I found this ideology today and thought it might be appropriate here:

Quote:
The power to choose is uniquely human. We all have a high interest in shaping the course of our lives – making the right choices and pursuing what is important to us. One commonly held view regards choice as merely reacting to, or selecting among, the existing options.

Choice is a profoundly human ability to create. When choice is understood and known in this way, what had previously seemed simply part of “the way things are” – inevitable or impervious to change – appears in a new light. We find ourselves able to choose – to have a say – about who we are and who we will be, as the author of our lives in any and all situations.
I am curious about whether the choice can be made to really embrace the positions you each chose... RP chose to include Mono in her family knowing he could not fully embrace her for who she is (although he would definitely make the attempt).... Mono chose to join the family knowing that RP would by her own nature constantly be seeking the freedom to be herself with others, as well as him (although she would make the attempt to not bring in more males). Both of these positions require that you both adapt in ways uncomfortable for you... but something needs to be taken into consideration here...

for a mono (and I am just spouting my own opinion here - so please correct me if I am way off) in this situation... the terms here are somewhat comfortable and required some growth (not denying the huge pains processed through) but were largely attainable as the terms fit in with this particular person's subconscious needs/wants... however,

for a poly (again - my own opinion) in this situation... the terms require a HOLDING IN, a RESTRICTION OF SELF and SELF EXPRESSION... so not growth per se but rather an anti-growth... (again not denying the huge and painful transformations and understandings reached by RP about herself, which can be viewed as growth in self acceptance, and understanding), which goes against not only her nature.... but also the nature of most humans - whether mono or poly.

Feel free to now tear to shreds what I have just said
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:38 PM
dragonflysky dragonflysky is offline
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
The question is...to what ends? That is our ultimate dilemma is it not? Growing and learning are words used to describe what goal?

If I may, can a play a bit of devil's advocate? I could be wrong but when I read this I think that budging, growing and learning are directly related to me relaxing my boundaries around men entering our lives. To me (and I would suspect a lot of mono people) that would not be growth...but a sacrifice that I will ultimately have to look very hard at if I am to be in your life the way I am today. What else could these words refer to in the context of this thread?

For me...."growth" implies an "increase in". There's no guarantee that "stretching" one's self to "grow" will create "increase" in one's life. It could also result in a rubber band effect of snapping...thus lessening one's capacity/abilities...or in this case the "sacrifice" that Mono talks about. For some, stretching one's self to grow....to remain in choice...may be setting a firm boundary or limit and saying "NO!" No this isn't ok. No this won't work for me. No I don't know how to explain myself so you'll understand, or even so that I'll intellectually understand my position. I just know (intuitively?) this won't work for me. Growth wouldn't necessarily be that "I will attempt to see things from your perspective....or try things from your perspective"...it may be "I will respect my perspective and know it is right for me." (This is coming from someone who has been co-dependent in the past and so busy trying to see things from other's perspectives to be "fair" that I often neglected my own wants and needs! For me, "Growth" was learning to say "No" and "Yes" to my wants and needs.)

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  #75  
Old 02-10-2011, 02:48 PM
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What makes you think that this is my first thought? What is behind that? .
Three months into moving into together you cross boundaries and begin to push those. I moved in under different boundaries that you repeatedly said you were fulfilled within. You changed up the game just like people told me you would.

Control issue or not and maybe it is....I'm back to square one. I surrender. When you need another man, just tell me. That's not the kind of relationship I want to be in. I value our friendship first and foremost. I can be the friend of someone in an open relationship. I cannot be a lover to them.

Again this thread has been sidetracked by why I have boundaries.
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:02 PM
meyesekrit meyesekrit is offline
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Default looking into myself....

In response to the posts about looking into one's self....

While I DON'T paint everyone with this same brush......and it's NOT always my ONLY motivation.....

I have discovered that often when I feel a need to connect with someone else.....a need to pursue another partner - even when previously I have agreed to certain boundaries of what is now (currently re-negotiating) a poly-fi group....my desire for connection with others is a direct result of my feelings about myself.

If I'm not feeling good about myself. If I've stumbled into an area of low self-esteem. If I'm generally not feeling - not affirming - my own self-worth, I have an overwhelming need to seek it elsewhere.

The smallest spark of attraction, or NRE, is SO powerful - it can completely obliterate all the negative I'm attempting to hide from. Taking a step back to work on myself often significantly changes my level of attraction to others and my level of satisfaction with those I already have in my life.

Just a thought.

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  #77  
Old 02-10-2011, 03:17 PM
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For me...."growth" implies an "increase in". There's no guarantee that "stretching" one's self to "grow" will create "increase" in one's life. It could also result in a rubber band effect of snapping...thus lessening one's capacity/abilities...or in this case the "sacrifice" that Mono talks about. For some, stretching one's self to grow....to remain in choice...may be setting a firm boundary or limit and saying "NO!" No this isn't ok. No this won't work for me. No I don't know how to explain myself so you'll understand, or even so that I'll intellectually understand my position. I just know (intuitively?) this won't work for me. Growth wouldn't necessarily be that "I will attempt to see things from your perspective....or try things from your perspective"...it may be "I will respect my perspective and know it is right for me." (This is coming from someone who has been co-dependent in the past and so busy trying to see things from other's perspectives to be "fair" that I often neglected my own wants and needs! For me, "Growth" was learning to say "No" and "Yes" to my wants and needs.)
Thanks for that...it puts things into words for me I think. I need to maintian my health and integrity and trust that Redpepper will do what she must to retain hers. That is all we can ask for
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:32 PM
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Again this thread has been sidetracked by why I have boundaries.
Is that really surprising? You and RP are at odds, things seem pretty darn shaky in her mind/psyche right now. It is very unfortunate she cheated on you 2 years into your relationship (NRE just fading?) and only 3 mos after you all made the huge effort to move you into her house.

There is an awful lot going on here, it seems natural to me this thread is all over the place. After all, it's a public board and people have the ability to put their $.02 in. If you didn't want feedback you could just stop posting for a while...

Whether you step back and let her have other lovers, and thereby become more of a friend, or put your foot down and say, no way to other men... well, those are quick fixes. There is a lot of underlying work for both of you to do. I know men like to step into quick fixes, but I hear her telling you it's not about logistics (who's fucking whom) but more about her self esteem issues leading her to "lose her mind," and forget about your agreed upon boundaries in the heat of the moment with Leo.

She seems frustrated you're not hearing her saying that.
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:06 PM
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The fact that its been a short time (two weeks today) and there are some factors pertaining to my to the work I need to do on myself makes the compromise Mono made void at the moment. That's all I have left to say at this point so likely I won't address this again until some time has passed. Just so you know
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:16 PM
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In all honesty stepping back is not what I want...but what I would need to do and none of us can predict what that would lead to. But at least it is something on the table to work with if they want to continue as they are. I'm trying LOL
Hey Mon

I think this is at the heart of mono struggles and mindset. That desire to freeze moments in time that are special and beautiful. Just sit there forever and glow.

But you know too that life isn't like that. Nor relationships. We can't 'freeze-frame'. Things are always changing and evolving. Sometimes in a direction we like. Sometimes not. But the one thing we DO know is that wherever they happen to be at the moment won't remain. Whether it's positive or negative. It WILL change over time.

So your fears of things shifting are kind of self torture. They're going to shift eventually, for some reason eventually anyway. Better to develop coping mechanisms from the shifts than just inflict avoidable pain ?

Every survived instance seems to reinforce the "this too will pass" foundation.

Breath deep my friend !

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