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  #1  
Old 01-28-2015, 12:10 AM
cuddlecakes cuddlecakes is offline
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Default What do you think of "seduction community" or "game"?

So much of it is misogynistic/MRA/redpill bullshit that I kind of intentionally ignored it, but the problems in my relationship have made it pretty apparent that there's some truth to it.

The least annoying version I've found is this couple's: http://marriedmansexlife.com/welcome-and-orientation/ Instead of the usual "stop being nice and turn into an alpha male asshole and women will drop their pants for you", it says that "alpha" and "beta" are traits and that the ideal mate expresses some of both, and it's tailored for long-lasting relationships instead of getting laid at clubs.

This sounds pretty contrary to the usual poly advice:

Quote:
(2) Talking is a terrible way to get your partner to make the changes you want. You cannot change your partner by simply talking to them. You can however change yourself through your own actions, and your partner can make changes in response to your new actions.
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Old 01-28-2015, 12:42 AM
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Re:
Quote:
"Talking is a terrible way to get your partner to make the changes you want. You cannot change your partner by simply talking to them. You can however change yourself through your own actions, and your partner can make changes in response to your new actions."
Hmmm. To me that sounds like a plug for passive aggression. Your partner doesn't necessarily know what you want them to do just by observing your actions. But there may be something to the idea that communication isn't *always* the missing element.
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:06 AM
icesong icesong is offline
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Some of the points there were interesting, but that forum was SO pro-monogamy that I couldn't keep reading it without rolling my eyes.
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:51 AM
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It's stupid. I see no depth in the act of developing a technique aimed at superficial gains. I prefer real and authentic relating in the present moment.
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:44 AM
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I see his point about not talking. Talking is way overrated in the poly community and widely held up as the panacea for all relationship ills. Talking does have its benefits, but I think the author is getting at the idea that changing ourselves (which he identifies as action) has a much deeper and lasting effect on our relationships than does notifying a partner of a problem and requesting a change in him/her. Working on our own perspective and beliefs before we set out to talk will have us approaching the situation from a changed viewpoint and our partner responds to the change in us. We don't need to talk, talk, talk in order for people to sense and respond to our inner change. Talk, talk, talking without having first worked internally just results in more of the same. Our partners appear to be responding to our words (and admittedly can change their behavior in the short term according to our verbal requests) but long, lasting, satisfying changes in relationships come from the partners sensing the changed perspective in the other. We definitely do not need long drawn out and repeated talks to affect positive change in a relationship.
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappilyFallenAngel View Post
I see his point about not talking. Talking is way overrated in the poly community and widely held up as the panacea for all relationship ills. Talking does have its benefits, but I think the author is getting at the idea that changing ourselves (which he identifies as action) has a much deeper and lasting effect on our relationships than does notifying a partner of a problem and requesting a change in him/her. Working on our own perspective and beliefs before we set out to talk will have us approaching the situation from a changed viewpoint and our partner responds to the change in us. We don't need to talk, talk, talk in order for people to sense and respond to our inner change. Talk, talk, talking without having first worked internally just results in more of the same... changes in relationships come from the partners sensing the changed perspective in the other. We definitely do not need long drawn out and repeated talks to affect positive change in a relationship.
"We don't need to" should perhaps be stated as, "I don't want to."

And

Changing our behavior to avoid talking can be read as, "I've run out of fucks to give, so I am just gonna do what I want, and you can take it or leave it, buddy."
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:37 PM
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Changing our behavior to avoid talking can be read as, "I've run out of fucks to give, so I am just gonna do what I want, and you can take it or leave it, buddy."
I'm not sure I understand. Avoiding problems isn't what I was getting at. Rather, I was making the point that if a person approaches another with the intention of getting the other to change behavior in order to change the relationship, not much actually changes.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:46 PM
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I tend to think of productive communication as a negotiation. Both parties offer to make changes for each other, and try to arrive at a mutually-agreeable compromise.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
I tend to think of productive communication as a negotiation. Both parties offer to make changes for each other, and try to arrive at a mutually-agreeable compromise.
Agreed. My point in talking is not to change my partner, but to communicate the way I see or feel about things, and therefore to try to come to an understanding. It also involves *listening* (which is part of "communicate, communicate, communicate") in order to try to understand his POV, and maybe meet in the middle.

If we can't meet in the middle (or the "middle" is a bit skewed toward one end), then at least we have some sort of insight into how the other person feels, so we don't run roughshod over their feelings.

Changing my behavior without communicating doesn't give my partner any ability to *know* that I'm having difficulty with something. And, to be honest, sometimes the things I would change aren't always the best solutions.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:21 PM
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Agreed. My point in talking is not to change my partner, but to communicate the way I see or feel about things, and therefore to try to come to an understanding.
Quoting my own post to emphasize this... my metamour occasionally has difficulty with the way I communicate things, because she interprets that communication as me asking for her to change in order to make me feel better. Maybe this is the way HappilyFallenAngel interprets this, as well.

I don't communicate for that reason, and in fact, I get a bit tetchy when people change their behavior as an automatic response to my having difficulty with something and wanting to talk about it. I *want* to work through my issues and not have other people do the work for me. I just need to communicate what I'm feeling or thinking so that it's clear that this is something I'm working on, and not something that I'm having zero trouble with.

Okay, done quoting myself now.
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Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 14; and PokéGirl, 11), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
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