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  #211  
Old 11-27-2013, 02:45 PM
bofish bofish is offline
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Default Insults

I don't mind the insults.

I went back through a couple of threads and Marcus uses "retarded" to refer to someone he found distasteful. That about sums it up for me. Did he know this was "harmful?" probably not. But instead of taking me at my word, he argued for proof and when I gave proof, he wrote a post saying he would "no longer" engage me. We cling to our prejudices HARD.

Dagferi seems to be dealing with a lot of pain surrounding disability that she needed a place to take it out on. Interestingly, ultimately, she decided to come "out" which I think is the very argument she opposed in the first place. I have a lot of empathy for her in what sounds like a very very difficult situation and I am truly sorry she is suffering. I will say Metta for her.
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  #212  
Old 11-27-2013, 11:27 PM
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Bofish, you are making many assumptions. Just because people here share an opinion in this thread that differs from yours, or point out to you an issue they have with something you wrote, does not automatically mean they are angry, suffering, trying to insult you, nor even that they dislike you. They are simply expressing their opinions.

This thread has really gone way far off from your original questions and it is just becoming a big mess.

I recall that your threads from last year (when you posted as Nondy) devolved in the same way. You post about a problem, people offer their views, and suddenly you are challenging them, defending yourself as if you were attacked, say that people don't like you, then get all holier-than-thou about being disabled or some other issue that you want to rant about. Somehow it winds up in a big circular argument. You seem to be always poised for a fight. When you go around with a chip on your shoulder and are always goading people knock that chip off, you're either going to find people saying "I'm outta here" or telling you off. Think about that. How much do you want to alienate yourself from people that you have come to for some feedback and opinions on your situation? People who post here do so in the spirit of helpfulness, but it certainly does not mean we are just going to tell you what you want to hear.

How about you get back to the original topic and keep this thread somewhat cohesive.
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  #213  
Old 11-28-2013, 12:44 AM
bofish bofish is offline
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Ny- I understand and agree to a certain extent.

If you read the early posts I was called all sorts of things: unreasonable, manipulative, a martyr, controlling, and many others. As much as I tried to listen, and keep my temper, it was hard and I failed.

These lists are difficult for me. I don't expect people to agree, but I do get ruffled when the disagreements are name-callig or insulting. However, I'm willing to buy that I may be too sensitive and this is just the way people talk. There are a number of people on here (London among them) who I vastly disagreed with but came around to understanding their side.

When I am called negative things, I do get ruffled.
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  #214  
Old 11-28-2013, 12:53 AM
bofish bofish is offline
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I feel my primary issue with the list is that comments like this


Enjoy playing the martyr much?

No one has mentioned your disability except you several times.
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Which was 100% unprovoked, go unchecked. I am not excusing my own reaction, but that is what I react to.
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  #215  
Old 11-28-2013, 01:37 AM
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I think you are letting yourself be too sensitive and are taking some of the things that have been expressed here much too personally. I can point out to someone that they are being controlling, manipulative, unreasonable, or playing the martyr, for example, and not intend it to be "negative" or an insult in any way. In fact, I have said all those things to people here (and in real life) and many times been thanked for it. It's no different than telling someone they have something stuck between their two front teeth - you'd want to know that, wouldn't you?

You see those words as negative - but they don't have to be. For example, I manipulate people every day at my job. I tell them things that I think would appeal to them so they will buy what I'm selling. Does that make me a bad person? Does it make my customer a victim? No, not necessarily. Those words, as used here, are just descriptions of actions or strategies, as seen by people who only have the words in a post to assess, and offered simply as a way to illuminate the situation for you. You might not be able to see it from outside your own perspective. Yes, comments like that may be blunt and even seem harsh, but you don't have to take them and hurt yourself with them, because I know that no one here intended to hurt you when they posted them - only to shake you up a bit so you could see what they see.

The things said here may or may not ring true for you. It's simply feedback - take it or leave it, but don't waste your time and energy by taking those words and using them against yourself to feel victimized, nor to defend yourself and argue. What's the point and how would that benefit you? I am sure you have better things to do than argue with anonymous posters on a forum. We're all strangers here, so I would say not to take it so much to heart.

When someone comes to a forum like this for feedback or advice, all anyone here has to go on is the information provided us. We don't know you and can only say what we see from reading the posts. A person on the receiving end of comments like that doesn't have to indulge in feeling attacked or misconstrue it all as insults and name-calling. They can just try to hear that comment, and take a look at their lives and see whether they may be some element of truth in it. If not, no biggie, it doesn't resonate with you so move on. If there is something that feels a little sharp and bothers you, there may be a kernel of truth in it! In that case, it's better to look inward and find out why.
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Last edited by nycindie; 11-28-2013 at 01:52 AM.
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  #216  
Old 11-28-2013, 02:11 AM
Norwegianpoly Norwegianpoly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I still don't get drawing a line between sex and kink. I know others do, and that is fine, it just seems SO odd to me to separate the two. I mean, some kink involves using vibrators on a tied up sub. Is that sex or just kink? Is it only sex when a penis goes into a mouth or vagina? If a tied woman cums from a vibrator, is that sex or kink? I can cum just from having tits slapped or ass spanked. Is that sex or kink?
There is no straight line, in fact I think kink to a large extent (although not entirely) IS sex. The only distiction I draw is how much is made obvious/on display. At least at the BDSM parties I have gone to, there has been only partial nudidy and any clear-cut (vanilla) sex has been very discreet. It has got nothing to do with "what is sex really"-debates. Anything that will make you come or otherwise make you really tingle is sex, that is not the matter, the matter is to what degree it is obvious and in people's face. Obviously people enjoy themselves tremediously sexually-wise at BDSM parties, still the vibe is different than at a "straight" sex party (sometimes at least). When people enjoy themselves privately, they can just do what comes naturally and not put it in a box, but anyone arranging parties would have to take the "name" of the vibe into consideration.
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  #217  
Old 11-28-2013, 03:45 AM
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Hey nyc-that whole post could be a great thread of it's own called "advice for newbies"!!!
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  #218  
Old 11-28-2013, 01:48 PM
Norwegianpoly Norwegianpoly is offline
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I sometimes tell people about my sex life, however I don't regard it is something anyone has a right to know. If my social life envolved from my sex life (like sex parties) that might make it into something at least some people outside the circle should know about.

Now that I have embarked on poly life I inted to tell relevant people about it. I will explain to people that I travel and why. When he comes to se me/us, I will introduce him to some people (not my family though - but I did not after 4 months when I was monogamous either). If he comes to live close by/with us for a shorter or longer time, it becomes relevant for those visiting me, my familiy (that is interested in my every day life), friends and so on, it may even become relevant to my job at some point (they will want lists of persons to contact in case of emergency). In my life and to my head, my boyfriend is already a second primary, to keeping quiet in the long run would mean I was ashamed. It may be different if you live somewhere where being open is dangerous (that you could get physically assaulted or could lose your job) - I would not openly hold hands with both boys in Turkey, for safety reasons.
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  #219  
Old 11-28-2013, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I mean really-can you (I couldn't) imagine someone growing up in the US and NOT knowing that "faggot", or any combination of words with "nigger" is unacceptable and harmful to the people who hear (not even necessarily the person it was aimed at, but also those who overhear)?!?!?!?
I understand what you're saying, but I have to admit that I sometimes find it difficult to know which words are acceptable in which contexts. Both your examples (faggot and nigger) are used by some members of those groups to refer to themselves and others in those groups. I recall nondy doing the same thing in that other thread with the word "crippled."

Apparently it's acceptable for faggots, niggers, and cripples to call themselves that, but not for other people. Ok, I can accept that at face value ("just because")... but truly, if you expect other people to treat you with respect then you need to treat yourself with respect first. As much as there are homosexuals, black people, and disabled people who use those words, there are far more people from those groups who hate that those people use those words. It puts the education process 50 years backwards.

Of course, the "safe" move is to stay away from any words that you've heard called derogatory even once. If you know it's offensive to one person who's said something, then chances are there are hundreds of people who feel hurt but don't want to say anything for fear of making a fuss. I used them in the previous paragraph to make a point, but I would never dream of using them like that in ordinary circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
The word retarded just means delayed and any part of a person's development might be retarded. It's still used in medical circles but not socially.
We're doing relativistic E&M right now, and there's this thing called "retarded time" and I cringe every time we use it. My mom worked in a school for the severely mentally disabled (not just retarded development -- they were never gonna get there) and I learned early on how hateful the word "retard" can be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
In full disclosure, your comment made me flash back to an article wherein the authors opinion to combat the rape culture of male dominated societies (which is just about the entire world) was that men needed to be taught about rape, as if men who raped honestly didn't know it was bad.
Some genuinely don't. If you see a woman as an animal, devoid of thoughts and feelings and needs, then it's easy to treat her without respect, to any extent imaginable. I find it as shocking as you do, I completely cannot relate to that way of thinking, but simply denying the phenomenon does not fix the problem. It does sicken me to think that there are men out there who truly believe they own the women in their lives, that their bodies are their property to do with as they please. That's the thinking that needs to be educated against.

In western culture, most men know that violently forced rape is wrong, but subtle date rape is something that many people don't understand. Manipulation and coercion can be so subtle and emotional that neither person really realizes it's happening, except afterwards the (usually) woman is left with this sick and empty feeling inside.

It's mind boggling how many people really do believe "she was asking for it" by wearing revealing clothing. Again, I can't wrap my head around it, but I hear people say those things with genuine belief in what they're saying, so for me to just assume they're playing around and that they "really know it's wrong" makes me part of the problem. Add that into a culture that believes women enjoy playing hard-to-get, and that they want you to chase them and pressure them, and it's a recipe for rape. Yes indeed, I believe that education is a huge part of the solution.
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  #220  
Old 11-28-2013, 09:26 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwegianpoly View Post
There is no straight line, in fact I think kink to a large extent (although not entirely) IS sex. The only distiction I draw is how much is made obvious/on display. At least at the BDSM parties I have gone to, there has been only partial nudidy and any clear-cut (vanilla) sex has been very discreet. It has got nothing to do with "what is sex really"-debates. Anything that will make you come or otherwise make you really tingle is sex, that is not the matter, the matter is to what degree it is obvious and in people's face. Obviously people enjoy themselves tremediously sexually-wise at BDSM parties, still the vibe is different than at a "straight" sex party (sometimes at least). When people enjoy themselves privately, they can just do what comes naturally and not put it in a box, but anyone arranging parties would have to take the "name" of the vibe into consideration.
For Gralson, they're very different. For him, S&M is about power, getting people to react the way he wants them to, seeing how close he can push them to their edge. Even fisting, which directly involves genitalia and orgasms, is not at all "sexual" for him. That's one reason he's had so much trouble being comfortable with it with me, because for him, it's a way to release bottled-up emotions and childhood issues that he would prefer not to associate with our relationship in any way.

For me it's very different too. My kink isn't wired into my sexuality. I don't get turned on by getting tied up or role playing or hurting people. It's fun, but it's play. It's satisfying and it meets other needs, but not sexual ones. The issue I run into with the belief that "kink is about sex" is that people who believe that often accuse me of not being "genuine" or "real" when I engage in kink activities, because I'm just having fun, I'm just playing. I don't take it so seriously (except safety of course). They seem to believe that the way I play and my reasons for doing so somehow take away from the way they play and their reasons for doing so. Now, as much as I'm amused at the notion of a Dominant giving me that much power, it simply is not true. And again, it's not that the "kink is about sex" attitude means "kink is my life," merely that in my experience, the same people who give me a hard time about playing around also insist that kink is wholly and absolutely about sex. I guess they figure I'm just doing it all kinds of wrong. But fuck that, if I'm having fun, and my partners are having fun, then we're doing it right.
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