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  #351  
Old 10-08-2012, 11:17 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I met a lady at the Pride Conference. She attended my polyamory workshop. She was very helpful, gave me some great feedback.
On Sunday, she ended up at an ADD meeting a friend of mine runs. They ended up figuring out that they were both talking about me. LOL!

We're working out details to meet up and talk.
------------------------------------------------

Maca and I talked some last night.
Things remain unresolved with the other girl.
She is struggling to accept that the reason for the boundaries we have aren't "just to protect LR" but in fact those boundaries were created to protect Maca and that as the CURRENT boundaries stand-they are what WE BOTH want for our dynamic.

He reiterated his need for her to sit down with both of us and go over things. She wanted to know what I wanted to talk to her about (as if it remains just ME).
He told her we need to discuss the boundaries, time constraints, expectations.
Her response was that it is all "too complicated".
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  #352  
Old 10-08-2012, 11:23 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Default "Too Complicated"

"too complicated"

While I understand that there are people who like the freedom of being able to come and go as they please-and I respect that FOR THEM-

I find it INCREASINGLY irritating that people can't fathom that this is UNREALISTIC in my life.

I pointed out to Maca last night-in response to this comment from the other girl-

Even as a single man after his divorce:

He had a time limit, becuase he had a 2 year old at home and was a single dad. He DID NOT HAVE TO TELL the people he dated that was WHY his time was limited-
but it didn't change the fact THAT his time was limited.

He didn't have to tell that his $$ was limited-but it remained limited.

There WERE boundaries in his life-even as a single man-and while people he dated didn't necessarily have to be told WHY any given boundary existed-they did run into those boundaries.

So it's NOT "more complicated" that we have boundaries now.
We had them when we were single.
We have them now as married's.

We will ALWAYS have them-even if we divorce.

What may change is the specifics of those boundaries and/or the reasons for them.

The truth is that asking to be able to STATE what our limits are for what we can offer someone is actually a KINDNESS and a sign of respect for THEM.

The other option, is what he and she have done for the last year; which is to NOT state those limits clearly, so that she continuously finds herself hurt and upset AND hurting and upsetting him and/or I and/or GG and/or the kids
BECAUSE SHE HAS NO CLUE WHERE THE BOUNDARIES ARE and so she inadvertently steps on them.
Ouch. How disrespectful to ask someone to play a game with you and then not tell them the rules until after they break them! Talk about setting them up for failure.

Her ideology that it is "too complicated" could be restated as
"I prefer to find out the hard way what the rules of the game are."
or
"I enjoy the pain and misery I suffer and I cause by continuously breaking rules I have no intention of learning about."

I find this... disturbing.
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  #353  
Old 10-08-2012, 11:45 PM
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I see this attitude a lot in the single, kid-free 20 something crowd. They can't understand why you can't just drop everything and go to the movies during the week. The kid-free 30 somethings, seem to have a better understanding of time constraints. I don't know if that's due to the fact that more and more of their friends have kids and they are just now used to it, their jobs are more stable and demanding, or they have just matured enough to not be so selfish.

I have a few friends that most of the time, I forget are only 23ish. Then they will say something and I go (to myself) "Oh, just you wait! Lets see what you have to say on this in 5-10 years".
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  #354  
Old 10-09-2012, 12:12 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Nope. Not feeling accountablity in any way shape or form is sociopathic. It's not an age thing. 20 somethings understand accountability, they just may be avoiding it for the time being. To not accept that accountability exists is pathological and disturbing, as LR put it.

I can't continue to elaborate because i find this infuriating as well.

LR, if you are thinking that it is ultimatum time, i'm right there with you.
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  #355  
Old 10-09-2012, 12:45 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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The ultimatum has been dropped by me-as of last night when the discussion happened.
I laid it out as

this is non-negotiable.

I compared it to BDSM.
There is no room for play until negotiations of soft and hard limits has been established AND AGREED TO.

These boundaries are the soft/hard limits of our polydynamic. No agreement to them-no play. PERIOD.

He is devastated.
But-he understands BDSM negotiation well and agreed that it did make sense.

He also clearly grasped that the "it's too complicated" crap was CRAP after I gave the examples regarding the fact that EVERYONE has boundaries and limits-even singles and monos.
MOST don't state them and thus end up ruining relationships with unnecessary toe stomping-but the boundaries and limits exist none-the-less.

Everyone has time constraints, everyone has financial limitations, everyone has safer sex limitations (even if their limit is a free for all-that is their limit), etc.

Asking that someone be AWARE of ours before playing on our game board isn't "too complicated" it's actually respectful and considerate of THEM. I elaborated here:

http://aafteota.wordpress.com/2012/1...-by-the-rules/
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  #356  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:01 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Yeah i'm feeling a similar thing in one of my relationships but it is nowhere near as stressful as yours. But i'm starting to think it's time to let go.
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  #357  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:28 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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He's an emotional basketcase. It's all the more distressing for him because he is forever bent that I have someone else and he does not.
Of course there is a lot of work involved in building a relationship. GG has had to do a LOT of bending to have a relationship with me. He has had to let go of much more than this lady would need to because I don't have the same inscurity issues as Maca and am more willing to make allowances for someone else's comfort, pleasure and benefit.
BUT-I do expect clear and DIRECT lines of communication. Thats no longer negotiable.

I feel for Maca in terms of having a desire for someone. But I can't understand it. I have never dated out of a desire to 'find someone'. I have found people along my path that became partners. The idea of searching for a partner baffles me. I can't even fathom how that works.
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  #358  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:40 AM
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I have to just say, I do understand a bit abut the gf's resistance and her saying "it's too complicated." To me, it's not really about her age (thoughit may be about her experience - or lack thereof - with relationships), but simply about the choice between a high-maintenance relationship or a low-maintenance one. Obviously someone who has a spouse and several children will likely be more high-maintenance than someone single. Add to that a poly dynamic with a comprehensive list of rules, such as you have, LR, of course it's freaking complicated! I think I would say the same thing she did. It would be far too complicated for me. But then... knowing that, I WOULD WALK AWAY.

The problem is that she says "it's too complicated," but does nothing. She still expects Maca to be with her anyway. She still wants it, even though it's too complicated for her to be involved with him because she doesn't want your boundaries to affect her. What she should do is stop getting his hopes up and say goodbye instead of trying to ride it in the middle and still keep stringing Maca along as if she is going to abide by the rules, when she clearly doesn't wish to. I feel for him, but I hope he doesn't misdirect his resentment at you (because I do have a feeling he will grow resentful about it), when she is the one who is not playing fairly by wanting to eat her cake and have it too, and he is just being too desperate to see that.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 10-09-2012 at 01:45 AM.
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  #359  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:01 AM
SkylerSquirrel SkylerSquirrel is offline
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Just wanted to add that everyone does have limits, but some people's limits are more complicated than others. My personal reaction when I read through your boundary list was "whoa ... too many rules." That doesn't mean that rules are bad. That just means that I know my own preferences - I like a few simple, commonsense, broad rules instead of hammering out a bunch of details. I know what I'm looking for in a relationship, and that is not it.

So I basically agree with everything nycindie said.
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  #360  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:19 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
H I have never dated out of a desire to 'find someone'. I have found people along my path that became partners. The idea of searching for a partner baffles me. I can't even fathom how that works.
THIS I completely understand. I have never "looked for" anyone in my life (friend, lover, partner). I have "fallen into" any relationships (friend, lover, partner) that I have ever had. To be fair though, I never actually dated, I did go one a few "dates" when I was young - they were uncomfortable, I didn't like it, I decided to never do it again.

For me (I relate this to personality type, as I recently discussed in my "Notebook" blog on this site) - either you are a nice person that I will talk to again should the opportunity arise but have no extra interest in seeking you out, or you are one of "my people" that clicks from the onset and our relationship goes deep right away. (If you are not a nice person then I have no need to talk to you again...ever.)

I guess I view it - would I rather spend time relating to you or being alone? (I like myself, I have interesting ideas that I wouldn't mind contemplating further, I am perfectly happy having a discussion with myself if there is no-one more interesting to talk to). To be in a relationship with me (friend, lover, partner) - you have to add something to the conversation.

JaneQ
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MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (23+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (4+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi married female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
+ "others" = FBs, FWBs, lover-friends, platonic G/BFs, boytoys, etc.


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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