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Old 11-09-2013, 03:58 PM
Brunoni Brunoni is offline
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Default Needing Advice

I'm not real sure where to begin.

Let me start with saying that I love my wife.

My wife and I meet back when she was 15 and I was 20. She was in high school and I was just starting college. We were each others real first loves and first sexual partners.

We dated for a couple years then moved in together. We got married after being together almost 4 years. We have now been married 10 years and have two children.

Now our relationship is a bit out of the main normal of marriages. We decided to become swingers (sharing each other sexually with others).

We typically had rules we followed and such. Usually only with couples and with single man with me around. During the early stages of this experience with this lifestyle my wife discovered she is bisexual. I'm ok with that.

After about 5 or so years into our marriage (about 9 years together) we tried her being with a guy alone without me. I didn't really like it. This guy liked to buy gifts for is partners. We never accepted them but my wife thought it was cool and a saw him a view times without my knowledge or permission. I count this as affair one. Also durning this time time she ended up being with the man of a a couple she knew. We as a couple never had meet with them or done anything with them. I count this as affair two.

After I found out about these two we talked and argued a lot. I never could forget about them. They always in the back of my mind. My wife agreed to not ever see or speak with them again (which to my knowledge she has kept up.) We also started an open text and email policy between us and after reading things on this site that sounded like all very correct and wise things.

But we never seemed to be quite the same. My wife at the time worked overnights and I worked day shift. So we rarely see each other. That is hard on me. I love spending time with her and wish for us to do a lot together. During the time after her two affairs she got a girlfriend that I didn't like or approve of but she perused the relationship anyway.

This made things much harder on us and my wife would spend most of her time with her girlfriend and I felt like I was losing time that should be mine to her girlfriend. We would have a lot of fights over her girlfriend and how I didn't like her. After about 9 months my wife and her girlfriend broke up.

We after that her and i would have our good times and bad times but I still couldn't forget her affair or how bad things gotten between us always fighting about her girlfriend.

Now recently in July she met up with another man. I found this by once going in one of her emails. I found this out in like September. I confronted her about it and we got in a fight over it. She said "I was pissed so decided I'd do it"

So that's affair number 3.

She's also gotten a new girlfriend that we've both been with but I don't fully trust the new girlfriend either.

My wife feels she needs privacy and I shouldn't expect to know or have access to all her texts, emails, and facebook to make sure she isn't cheating or lying to me.

She says she feels like she is being controlled, spied on, has no privacy, etc and that isn't right. We should have trust. She's gone as far as to install new programs that I don't know about on her phone in order to chat with her girlfriend (maybe others I'm not sure) that doesn't log and doesn't want me to see.

Now tonight she planned and went out with her girlfriend without even talking to me or asking if I thought it was ok. I'm thinking of this as affair number 4. Since just a week or so ago her and I agreed that cheating (or an affair) is any sexual act or being naked with anyone without each other's knowledge and permission. She doesn't believe this counts since this is her girlfriend she is with and not someone else.

Guess I just don't know how to stop the fighting and get her to stop lying and hiding things from me. I know our marriage is not the typical but I need some advice. I want to get pass all this and make it better for both of us.

I really need some guidance.
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2013, 04:14 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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Get yourselves in marriage counseling.

Adding partners is the last thing your marriage needs.
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Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Brunoni Brunoni is offline
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And if she feels we don't need that only me, or that I just look at this all wrong and I shouldn't be upset, what would the advice be?
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:42 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
My wife feels she needs privacy and I shouldn't expect to know or have access to all her texts, emails, and facebook to make sure she isn't cheating or lying to me.
And when she has cheated on your agreements in the past and goes off to have affairs, how is this her demonstrating trust-building behavior so you can feel secure and safe in current/future dating partners?

When she does not make time to spent with you (esp with the work schedules you have) how is this healthy for the shared marriage and giving it attention and care?

You are just supposed to be ok with her breaking agreements? And neglect?

If she is not willing to see your side of it, then I don't know what to tell you other than seek counseling. Perhaps with a professional guiding your through conversation you can arrive at agreements you both can keep and feel safe with.

I am sorry you are going through this but I hope you guys can repair what needs repairing.

Galagirl
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:51 PM
Brunoni Brunoni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
And when she has cheated on your agreements in the past and goes off to have affairs, how is this her demonstrating trust-building behavior so you can feel secure and safe in current/future dating partners?

When she does not make time to spent with you (esp with the work schedules you have) how is this healthy for the shared marriage and giving it attention and care?

You are just supposed to be ok with her breaking agreements? And neglect?

If she is not willing to see your side of it, then I don't know what to tell you other than seek counseling. Perhaps with a professional guiding your through conversation you can arrive at agreements you both can keep and feel safe with.

I am sorry you are going through this but I hope you guys can repair what needs repairing.

Galagirl
I've mentioned that to her that she's not showing trust but she says I'm not giving her trust by feeling I should have access to all her accounts and have the option to randomly check her chats and such.

When we first got together I was a very private person and didn't like her going through my email. I never had anything to hide but now I think of her and I more as one and feel what mine is hers and hers is mine. So I don't think there is anything I need to know that she doesn't and same for her.

I need some suggestions to help her see that her actions aren't right either.

Also am I right feeling that she going off with her gf last night without my knowledge and permission is an affair?
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:09 PM
london london is offline
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It seems to me like your wife is saying "let me do exactly what I want, and I'll prove that I'll maintain our marriage." I can sort of empathise with that. I, too, desire the freedom to build what relationships I want to have with my partner's trust that they won't be replaced or displaced by one another. However, having that trust in someone who has given me reason not to trust them is near impossible. It's unreasonable to expect that sort of trust once you have continually betrayed someone. Of course, the betrayed person will want to set rules and boundaries to protect their relationship, rules that will instruct the development of other bonds, but there has to be some acknowledgement of wrongdoing and compensation for the lost trust. This is what your wife is failing to recognise. The rules you are setting would be unreasonable for me, but then I don't need to rebuild trust with someone I've betrayed.
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:44 PM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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I don't condone the hiding and lying stuff. BUT

I know you've known your wife a long time and you're married. And it is common for people to think of marriage as two becoming one. Its a nice sentiment. However, it isn't true. You are a separate entity from your wife and she is a separate entity from you. The more you try to make someone be half of a person, even one you intend to complete with yourself, you shouldn't be surprised if they act out in ways to show you how not the other half of you they are.

I think she is right, you should seek some counseling for your self AND so should she so she can maybe come to see the damage she has caused in your ability to not freak out about what she might do as an individual with whom you're so enmeshed.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:24 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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As the wife who cheated in my marriage.

She's wrong.

Trust is earned and relationships require trust.
She broke it-she has to earn it.

It took several years of outrageous effort on my part to rebuild trust and part of that is being completely open and allowing the other person to be able to see that you are in fact telling the truth.

That said:

Too often, cheating occurs when we are too frightened or immature (usually both) to honestly address a "rule" or expectation in our relationship that is NOT FUNCTIONAL for us.

I am NOT NOT NOT NOT saying this is an excuse.
I am saying-if a couple wants to get past the issue, they need to know where the START is. Because it's not usually with "xyz had an affair". It's usually with, "xyz wasn't able to be themself fully with the restrictions that were in place".

Anyway-the rules you had-don't sound functional.
The way she's acting is ABSOLUTELY not functional.

I second the first response;
THERAPY. Get into marriage counseling with someone who is trained in communication AND on HOW TO TEACH it (cognitive behavioral therapy of communication would be ideal).
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2013, 12:12 AM
Brunoni Brunoni is offline
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Well she and I have talked a bit. She still feels me having complete access to her phone and such is unreasonable and not showing trust. She says that is nosey and you have to trust me.

So I get access to her email and her fb to try to fact check. She is telling me that she only talks to her girlfriend on fb, text, and talking on the phone.

I guess I have to trust she is telling the truth since I can't check her phone.

We are also going to to work on our communication. She is going to start telling me more and discuss decisions until we both agree on a choice we are both happy with.

I would be ok with doing counseling but I know she won't agree to it. She feels she's in the right and I'm just being nosey and controlling. I'm hoping that if we can get some small victories together and start making things work she'll start to open up more.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:10 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Reading between the lines, I get the impression that these "agreements" are more like you telling her how you want it and pushing until she concedes. It doesn't sound like her needs are being taken into account.

I agree that trust is earned and that she has broken it and therefore does not merit trust. But trust works both ways. She has to be able to trust that sharing her feelings with you will be safe, that you won't try to take away the other people that make her happy.

I also believe that your behaviour has created half the problem. She started seeing "affair #1 guy" with your knowledge. You didn't like the way he bought her gifts, but she did. Maybe you envied his ability to give her things she wanted that you could not give her. So you laid down the law and forbade her from seeing him, even though that relationship was already under way. When she didn't obey your command to stop seeing him, you considered that cheating. But she is not your property and it is not your right to end her existing relationships.

Her time is hers to spend with whomever she wants. The time she chooses to spend with her girlfriend is not "your time." You don't own her. You don't own her time. Your feeling of entitlement and possessiveness does not change that basic fact.

You're expecting her to behave in a way that clearly does not follow what she wants. So "trust" is not the core issue, if you're expecting her to fit into your ideals and she is not willing to bend to your rules.

If you want to save your marriage, you need to stop trying to control her. You've taken away everyone she's tried to love. Is it really so surprising that she now wants to hide them from you, lest you destroy those relationships too?

If you want her to be honest with you, you need to foster an environment where she is safe to tell the truth without fear that you're going to use it against her. You don't have to like her lovers, you don't have to get along with them. She loves them, they make her happy. Love and especially marriage mean you sometimes put their happiness first. It's not all about you.
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