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  #141  
Old 11-30-2013, 03:40 AM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
To my surprise, she blew up at me: "How dare you tell me what to do! I really want to finish this conversation!"
This analogy would fit better to the "treatment" discussion if the person walking toward the manhole was talking to YOU on the phone at the time; instead of the warning party being some random stranger giving unsolicited input.

The people who come to these boards looking for advice have come to a public discussion forum where there is presumably a bank of wisdom they can tap into. They give some info about their situation, about their goals, and then ask what the other members have to offer. THEN they are given the warning about the manhole and told some other truths they very often don't care to hear and yell their "how dare you"s.

It would be difficult to express how little I care about how people arrange their love lives. I only offer my input here because I find the academic discussion of interpersonal relating interesting, and this is an appropriate place to vet my thoughts.
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Last edited by Marcus; 11-30-2013 at 03:42 AM.
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  #142  
Old 12-10-2013, 08:31 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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This ties in with a writing project I'm working on right now. It's about threesomes, and of course, "unicorn hunting," etc., is something I'm going to talk about, inspired by this discussion thread--THANK YOU EVERYONE!

If any of you would be willing to pm me about your particular experience being a woman who has dated or joined an already established couple (as a couple,) or you were a part of a couple who sought out a bisexual woman to join you, I'd really love to be able to quote you. I'm interested in explaining why the "couple seeking biwoman" fantasy is so hard to make a reality, and why it works when it works or doesn't when it doesn't....

I hope a couple of you will take a second to write me about your experience in your own words, or I'll ask you a few questions if you prefer. You will, of course, remain anonymous. I promise the piece is respectful, poly-friendly, and not (overly) salacious. Thanks again for the food for thought!
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  #143  
Old 03-21-2015, 06:16 PM
GreenAcres GreenAcres is offline
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Default Where's my unicorn, damnit!?

So, this is sort of ranty, but I feel like it needs to be said: One of the things I find most frustrating about unicorn hunters is their attitude, honestly. Much more so than the misguided way they go about things, or the unwillingness to understand the very small likelihood of finding their unicorn, or the strong likelihood that things will explode, it's the attitude. When people in, or open to, other configurations post or seek out poly groups IRL, in my experience, they rarely have this same attitude. It is this attitude that, I think, makes these kinds of triads fail so spectacularly if the couple ever finds a unicorn, and then they go looking for another one (because, clearly, it wasn't them, it had to be the "third").

People open to/looking for other configurations overall seem much more open to introspection, discussion, self-reflections, and real conversations about poly, and value the experiences and advice of people with more experience. UH's are, with some very rare exceptions, almost exactly the opposite. When more experienced poly people try to have discussions that may not be exactly what the UH's want to hear, or to ask relevant questions, or provide relevant answers, experiences, articles, etc., the UHs almost invariably get all pissed off because "they know what they want," they don't need to learn anything, and they deserve their unicorn, damnit! They cannot be made to see, no matter how gently and reasonably it's shown to them, that their actions and words are objectifying, that there are things that would help them be more successful in both finding and possibly retaining relationships, etc.

This attitude doesn't exist in a vacuum, meaning it doesn't just exist when they're looking for their unicorn, but after they find her/him. Then they wonder why it all blows up horribly. The UH's seemingly don't understand that their lack of willingness to process other points of view, to see things from other perspectives, to be open to advice and experiences from those who have been through it, are all red flags that the kind of relationship they're seeking is going to end badly because they're not emotionally equipped to deal with it.
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  #144  
Old 03-21-2015, 07:30 PM
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That is exactly it Greenacres, it is the thing which drives me most crazy.
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  #145  
Old 03-21-2015, 08:39 PM
GreenAcres GreenAcres is offline
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Natja, it's something I've been thinking on for a while, but had a difficult time putting into words. When I meet people who are interested in or new to poly relationships that aren't poli-fi triad unicorn hunts, it's a much different vibe. It's less intense, more relaxed, more inquisitive, more open, more thoughtful. Those looking for a unicorn tend to want to come off as so "relaxed" and "open," but almost always come across as pushy, intense to a point of creepiness, and demanding.

I am sure there are exceptions, of course, but as a general rule, they're just really difficult to talk to and off-putting. Which makes me want to have zero to do with them, though I love the idea of an egalitarian triad/quad/whatever.
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  #146  
Old 03-21-2015, 09:17 PM
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I don't like the way unicorn hunters act, but I also think sometimes we flatter ourselves that we're diplomatic because of how very much we'd like to tackle the unicorn hunters with much stronger language. No matter how disgusting someone's attitude and behavior is, the only worthwhile solution from where I'm sitting is to figure out how to keep them engaged, rather than giving them an excuse to stomp off. Once someone stomps off, the forum's ability to help that person (and by extension that person's future victims) is snuffed out.

Sure non-unicorn-hunters seem to be more appreciative and open-minded, but that's because they're not failing so spectacularly in the first place. And thus, we have less reason to castigate them. It's when we have all the reason in the world to castigate someone that I wish we'd be extra careful. Sure the reality is that seeking the advice of internet strangers exposes you to castigation and so you shouldn't be surprised when that's what you get. But wouldn't it be nice if Polyamory.com could (mostly) be an exception to that rule? What harm would be done?

Of course, this is coming from someone who naïvely believes that there's always (or 99% of the time) a gentle way to deliver the truth. Everyone has their own beliefs, and their own way of acting on them. I'm just throwing 2¢ in on the off chance that it'll serve some useful purpose.
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  #147  
Old 03-21-2015, 09:48 PM
GreenAcres GreenAcres is offline
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Kevin, you may be right. As much as I was talking about online, though, I was also talking about real life. Being a bi female, pretty much every unicorn hunter ever hits on me if they even get an inkling I "dig chicks," regardless of...well, anything, actually: if I've known them for more than 5 minutes, whether I am looking for partners or not, interested in them or not, have anything at all in common with them at all, etc. Come to think of it, many have hit on me just because I am a female, and females are assumed to be open to the idea of having sex with other women because...well, reasons. In some cases they've known I'm open to poly and in some cases they have no idea if I am mono, poly, or whatever, let alone if I am bi, married and committed, etc. They so rarely bother to care, esp. since i don't wear rings (I can't for my job). And, the "hitting on" can get pretty triggery. It often borders on (and, frankly, sometimes crosses the lines of) stalking, and is creepy as hell. I'm a very assertive person with no problems standing up for myself, so I can only imagine this is even worse for women that may be less outspoken. What we see here is actually, in most cases, pretty tame. There is a really good reason I don't do IRL poly groups (though, to be fair, this has happened to me at random venues, too). So, I admit I am probably not always the most democratic of people when it comes to this topic, and perhaps I need to be more mindful.

When I engage with people who are interested in different configurations of poly, here or IRL, I rarely get any of those things, regardless of whether people are interested in me romantically/sexually or not. The other bi women I know tend to have similar experiences, as have many hetero poly women.

So, I suppose it's just that patience runs out sometimes. I am not always the world's most patient person with any adult who has a bad attitude (I consider acting entitled "attitude"). It's one of the reasons I'm glad you're more softly-worded posts balance things out!
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Last edited by GreenAcres; 03-21-2015 at 10:32 PM.
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  #148  
Old 03-21-2015, 10:06 PM
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Well, I thank you for your understanding response; my perspective is more limited because I haven't been personally targeted by unicorn hunters IRL. And I agree that acting entitled constitutes an attitude.

Actually, what bugs me the most is when someone (and unicorn hunters do seem to be the most often guilty of this) asks me a direct, difficult question ... and then I give a direct, well-researched answer ... and then, instead of so much as acknowledging that, the person who asked either changes the subject or just plain drops off the map. It's as if unicorn hunting is "polyamory, ADD style."

If I could herd a bunch of unicorn hunters into a room (and lock the door so they couldn't get out), I'd ask them where on earth they got this unicorn-hunting idea, and why it's so popular. Oh sure there's lots of theories, but I wish I could hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
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  #149  
Old 03-21-2015, 10:31 PM
GreenAcres GreenAcres is offline
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Your responses are always well-thought-out and understanding, so I am glad you found mine the same!

And yep, that is part of what bugs me, as well. It's as though, the moment there's any part of an answer that may not be applause for their decision to seek out a mutual GF to share--not matter how well reasoned and stated the answer to is--they check out. Here, they tend to just not respond/return. IRL, they often just keep repeating back to you why they are awesome and what they're doing is totally the right way and how different they are (they're not--I can usually predict what they're going to say before they say it because I've heard it so many times), as though you didn't speak.

What I speak of above as my IRL experience with unicorn hunters is, unfortunately, what most bi women I know have experienced (including ones who aren't poly), and the experience of many poly women (including ones who aren't bi!). It really isn't about the woman in question at all--she is generally treated as an object, so it's about the couple who "wants" her. There are some things that mean a woman will likely experience it more or less often (race, visible marital status symbols, age, and, to a lesser degree, societal-accepted norms of attractiveness can play a part in the frequency, as can the demographics of the area everyone lives in). But, it's been a pretty universal experience among those women I know (yes, this is anecdotal, not scientific, and I am sure there are exceptions).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Well, I thank you for your understanding response; my perspective is more limited because I haven't been personally targeted by unicorn hunters IRL. And I agree that acting entitled constitutes an attitude.

Actually, what bugs me the most is when someone (and unicorn hunters do seem to be the most often guilty of this) asks me a direct, difficult question ... and then I give a direct, well-researched answer ... and then, instead of so much as acknowledging that, the person who asked either changes the subject or just plain drops off the map. It's as if unicorn hunting is "polyamory, ADD style."

If I could herd a bunch of unicorn hunters into a room (and lock the door so they couldn't get out), I'd ask them where on earth they got this unicorn-hunting idea, and why it's so popular. Oh sure there's lots of theories, but I wish I could hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
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  #150  
Old 03-21-2015, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenAcres View Post
When more experienced poly people try to have discussions that may not be exactly what the UH's want to hear, or to ask relevant questions, or provide relevant answers, experiences, articles, etc., the UHs almost invariably get all pissed off because "they know what they want," they don't need to learn anything, and they deserve their unicorn, damnit! They cannot be made to see, no matter how gently and reasonably it's shown to them, that their actions and words are objectifying, that there are things that would help them be more successful in both finding and possibly retaining relationships, etc.
I have noticed this entitled, defensive attitude as well.
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