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  #131  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:39 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
And besides, I don't know for sure she's going to fall into the manhole. Maybe she's the kind who can walk on air!)
Or maybe it's her karma to fall into the manhole. Some people insist on smoking, no?
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  #132  
Old 11-16-2013, 03:21 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Mags started this thread for this purpose:
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
. . . There are a couple regulars who always defend triads, and there is confusion about triads growing organically as opposed to being forced, as a prescribed "box" for a unicorn to fit in.

I hope we can discuss this, use this space for venting for those of us who are tired of the same old issues with forced triads and unicorn hunting that we see day after day.

Triads, an established couple looking for a single woman for a poly fidelitous 3way, we all share sex together thing, is NOT the only way to do poly. Why do so many people think that is THE way to do poly? It's odd, really.
If anyone wants to argue about the kinds of reactions and "treatment" that people looking for triads and unicorns are met with on this forum, that would be off-topic. A meta-discussion (discussing the discussion) is off-topic.

Mags is looking for responses from others who are tired of seeing the types of posts she describes. She wants to have a space to rant and is asking others to rant with her and discuss why people seem to believe that a "Couple Plus One" situation is the only way to be poly.

I was once tired of seeing so many threads from and about couples or people in group situations, so I started a thread for solo poly people and asked that other solos offer their ideals. Anyone is isn't solo poly or wanting to be solo poly would not have the type of experience I wished to see shared in that thread.

This is no different. This thread is not the place to argue with Mags or anyone else, nor to point fingers, about how to word posts to newbies who appear to be chasing unicorns. Please keep it on-topic and civil. Thanks.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 11-16-2013 at 06:41 PM.
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  #133  
Old 11-16-2013, 05:18 PM
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Thanks, NYCindie.

So, it's been established that the term Unicorn or Unicorn Hunter is condescending and/or derogatory. To tell some newbie couples coming here that they are Unicorn Hunters and their goals are unrealistic is to condescend to them and speak to them in a demeaning manner.

Well.

Personally, I am in favor of ethical non-monogamy. The problem with the ideal "third" these couples want to "add" is that the box they want her to fit in is prescribed and confining. It's all about what they want. When they don't get what they want with this or that unwitting woman who "engages" with them, they say, "She just wasn't the right girl," and go on looking for Her, thinking if they just find Her, all will be well.

Some people come here, get mad at their treatment when they describe the box for the girl they want, and they leave (much to II's chagrin, it seems). However, some couples with the Unicorn Hunting mindset, getting the exact same treatment and response from longer term members, have a veil lifted from their eyes and realize, "Oh, my relationship goals were unrealistic, unethical and possibly could cause harm to my current relationship, as well as hurt the prospective woman we are seeking!" Then they change their intent and methods of attempting polyamory.

Some people are just not ready to change. Some people are stubborn. Some are so afraid they don't even know they are afraid. In my opinion, none of the experienced members here who call a spade a spade (a UHer a UHer) are abusive or overly judgmental. We are all over the board dispensing information and support to all kinds of new people with problems. Most of them benefit from it and thank us. For some reason, newbies who are UHers are extra testy, maybe because they are SO jealous of each others' poly feelings, and rather than work through the jealousy feelings and come out with compersion, they need that Unicorn woman in a box. So, having that pointed out to them is just WAY too uncomfortable.
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  #134  
Old 11-16-2013, 05:53 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Personally, I am in favor of ethical non-monogamy. The problem with the ideal "third" these couples want to "add" is that the box they want her to fit in is prescribed and confining. It's all about what they want. When they don't get what they want with this or that unwitting woman who "engages" with them, they say, "She just wasn't the right girl," and go on looking for Her, thinking if they just find Her, all will be well.
For the record I completely agree with you. That behaviour is not particularly nice, or even ethical. We all have different ways of pointing this out however.

It's up to the moderators I guess to decide if some the reactions given fall outwith the board guidelines.

Venting on the other hand is totally understandable
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  #135  
Old 11-16-2013, 09:08 PM
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Default On the label "unicorns"

I'm prepared to admit that my interpretation of "unicorn" as a self-applied label may have been overloaded with crap from "unicorn hunters," which I do not think is overloaded at all. There are couples who are interested in forming a triad-ish relationship with another woman, but are still open to "whatever happens happens." That, in my opinion, is not hunting for unicorns.

We all have our ideals. The secret to happiness, however, is knowing how much attachment to place on your ideals, and how much leeway to give them.

Compromise doesn't mean giving up on what you want and being miserable that you didn't get it all. Compromise means being satisfied, happy even, with what's actually possible.

As for the young women who come in as self-proclaimed unicorns, and then proceed to list all the ways unicorn hunting ruined their lives... well... duh. Hunters hunt. Prey gets hunted. I've never actually been hunting, but my understanding is that it's considered bad form to shoot an animal without actually finishing the job. There's a reason they aren't referred to as unicorn chasers or unicorn trappers.

In other words, it's one thing for someone to come in and just say "I like dating couples because _____." In some cases that might still be naive, but it can be forgiven as inexperience. But applying labels implies at least some amount of education on the lifestyle. And that means, you should know better.
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  #136  
Old 11-16-2013, 09:25 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Default On educating "unicorn hunters"

For many couples interested in exploring polyamory, triad seeking is their first introduction. If it ends badly, that becomes their only experience. The instinct then is to blame "polyamory" and not to consider "maybe we just did it wrong." Yes, wrong. There are many ways to do polyamory. Most of them are just "different." But, like it or not, some of them are just wrong.

/begin digression on "doing it wrong"

If you're using people as sex toys, or disrespecting their autonomy, or treating them like possessions, or disregarding their needs because they are not the same as your needs, or dictating how they need to behave when they're not with you, or completely determining their role before you even met them... you're doing it wrong.

The only exception is D/s, where she is your submissive, you lay down your expectations in crystal clear detail, and she provides informed consent. In my experience, the vast majority of unicorn hunters are mortified if you imply that what they're seeking is more in line with a D/s lifestyle than vanilla polyamory.

/end digression on "doing it wrong"

Is coming on so strongly the best approach for education? Probably not. But the message needs to be sent. So many of these people will become relationship tornadoes, destroying all kinds of things in their path. And if they think that's "what polyamory is" then they'll make the obvious conclusion that "polyamory doesn't work."

Now that, in and of itself, doesn't matter to me. If someone experiments with something and it doesn't work and they vow never to do it again, no skin off my back.

But it doesn't stop there. They don't just say "wow, that didn't work, let's never do that again." They tell all their friends how much polyamory doesn't work, how awful it is, how much heartache it causes, and how we should all learn from their mistakes and never try it. They become champions for monogamy, that it's the only sensible relationship model. They become self-proclaimed experts on the awfulness of polyamory.

And that is where it matters to me. We have enough to deal with ignorance from the religious right and society at large without competing with people's failed experiments. Because those folks aren't speaking from the bible or from sociology or philosophy. They're speaking "from experience." People tend to respect and trust experience. Saying "I did this and it didn't work" carries much more weight than "I read about a situation where this didn't work."
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  #137  
Old 11-16-2013, 09:58 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
It's a pet peeve of mine, these Unicorn Hunters
Just to clarify - what exactly is your pet peeve? The existence of 'Unicorn Hunters' or the fact that they come to this board looking for their 'Unicorn'?

If it's the former I'm not sure what can be done. If it's the latter I can imagine that there could any number of remedies.

For instance there could be an appointed 'Unicorn Hunter Reception Person' that could post a standard 'Unicorn Hunters Welcome and Warning Notice' that would contain relevant links etc. and encourage people to come back once they've read the articles.

I notice some posters do this already - but may it needs to be organised if it's such a problem?
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  #138  
Old 11-22-2013, 03:41 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
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Default for a totally different history...

http://io9.com/the-bizarre-history-o...rns-1466476905

Just thought I'd share that perhaps unicorns are oxen. Or something like that....
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  #139  
Old 11-23-2013, 03:10 AM
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ICanBeStunning ICanBeStunning is offline
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I stopped reading this around page 10 or 11 when the ridiculous hypotheticals started being brought up, so if someone covered this sorry.

I've been reading that the theoretical unicorn is an adult who too can deal with the consequences of ill fated liaisons with unicorn hunters. I wholeheartedly agree. However unicorn hunters seem to be the more visible party making them easier to target with the warnings about this style of dating.

Personally for me all these warnings helped me define myself as a single polyamorous woman. A few years ago I was barely out of my teens, and I idealized triads. The path of least resistance seemed to be to join an established couple. I encountered scores of couples looking for their HBB. Each had some absurd clause for the unicorn they hoped to catch. A large number of them "had experience" and if not for the woman moving out of state (or something along those lines), they would all be happily skipping around in poly bliss. In time it occurred to me that all these couples probably had it right; that I would have to either redefine myself to fit into their mold or give up my polyamorous identity altogether. Even other unicorns were saying that in these situations the couple's needs are greater than the unicorn's needs.

Posts clarifying what the couples were doing wrong and expressing how they could result in harm for all parties involved helped me understand what I found so unattractive about many of the ads I read. They helped me not feel crazy when I drifted away from yet another couple who wanted the impossible from me. I eventually learned that I didn't have to accept a thing that these people wanted. I'm glad it didn't think me a couple of heartbreaks and 50 pints of rocky road to learn to cope with this.

I agree that sometimes unicorns are presented as some poor victim. This may or may not be true depending on the situation. They also don't usually post ads so it's probably easy to paint them/see them that way. I'm sure they can manage themselves, but I'm sure it's nice to have this information available to them should they need it. This is a different style of loving and frankly there aren't enough examples on how to do it healthily. Just because they're not the focus, doesn't mean it's not helpful to them. It certainly helped me.
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  #140  
Old 11-23-2013, 11:06 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICanBeStunning View Post
Personally for me all these warnings helped me define myself as a single polyamorous woman.
Thank you for writing this it is a unique pov.


Quote:

Even other unicorns were saying that in these situations the couple's needs are greater than the unicorn's needs.
I have seen that quite a few times from women, they say that they respect their partners marriage SO much and know that "it comes first", they "know" they are secondary because they are "new" but still there are problems with the 'thirds' needs being met and some parity in the relationship.
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