Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #111  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:16 PM
Natja's Avatar
Natja Natja is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 823
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
I think urban dictionary is about as useful as toilet paper..
Whether it is useful to you or not isn't the issue, it is whether the definition used within the Poly community is a positive or negative one.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:40 PM
pulliman pulliman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern US...
Posts: 182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Luckily most of the happy ones I know [unicorns and their hunters...], don't come to forums like this. The pent up abuse because there are bad ones, would just be plain horrible for them.

Its unfortunate circumstances. But this forum abuses people who don't fit this forums poly-ideals which is dictated by the active members. The abuser is sometimes blind to the abuse they dish out, but that doesn't make it less true.
This would be the reason that my wife and her (and my) lover don't read in this forum. I filter HEAVILY to pass on stories that are interesting. They can't stand the attitude toward those who want to stay married AND want to (each) have a close, intimate, sexual relationship with (gasp!) the same person, or those who date two members of a couple and want them to stay together. Frankly, I'm leaning toward returning to lurking status for the same reason. If there were a place to more safely talk about three-person-relationships, that'd be great. But these meta-conversations about what words mean and co-dependency/flaws/fuckups get annoying. Yes, there are lots of silly personals ads, but there's also plenty of, as you say, abuse.

Last edited by pulliman; 11-14-2013 at 10:42 PM. Reason: clarity... typo...
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 11-15-2013, 12:41 AM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
This would be the reason that my wife and her (and my) lover don't read in this forum. I filter HEAVILY to pass on stories that are interesting.
Ditto-the guys don't care about which type of relationship, it's just the general caustic-ness of the conversations and the pulling apart of definitions.
They were both on the board and both found themselves more annoyed and frustrated than helped. So now they avoid it like the plague.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 11-15-2013, 04:57 AM
london london is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK - land of the free
Posts: 1,635
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Whether it is useful to you or not isn't the issue, it is whether the definition used within the Poly community is a positive or negative one.
You realise that anyone could write a definition on there, right?
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 11-15-2013, 07:29 AM
ImaginaryIllusion's Avatar
ImaginaryIllusion ImaginaryIllusion is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,934
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
You realise that anyone could write a definition on there, right?
Absolutely I would include this as to one of the many reasons that Urban Dictionary should in no way be considered an authoritative source of jack or shit. As an aside, if you want a laugh, look up "chicken scarf".

In the case of the Unicorn definition, the one presented from UD earlier is authored by one of those bloggers with an axe to grind, an agenda to have their own narrow definition of "how to poly" be the *only* poly. Hence why the definition is overloaded as I've described, and also why I will summarily reject its use at any and every opportunity.

And while playing the popularity game with thumbs seems to be a popular social media pastime, again, it does not serve to validate anything. If that was the case, we could look at any newspaper article on poly, and checking the thumbs down balance of any poly positive comment, and safely conclude that poly is inherently wrong/invalid/unhealthy/etc.

What can be gleaned from the thumbs scale, is that a 60%/40% split represents a large margin by which it can be concluded that the definition presented is far from universally, or even generally accepted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
unicorn is not a poly term. Its an alternate lifestyle term. I knew what it meant long before coming into poly. Just because some of us want to redefine a meaning doesn't make it true. Calling a donkey a horse because urban dictionary might tell me, doesn't make it so.
Exactly....and while this may be a poly board, there are enough incoming and crossover from the other alternate lifestyle communities that it will not aid communication to change and redefine commonly used terms between them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
But this forum abuses people who don't fit this forums poly-ideals which is dictated by the active members. The abuser is sometimes blind to the abuse they dish out, but that doesn't make it less true.
And this is the kind of thing that really needs to stop. Abuse is not acceptable, nor is driving people away. Attempting to "save the unicorns" by chasing hunters away from the board is no in line with the guidelines or spirit on which this Forum was founded.
It is also inherently counterproductive to the purpose of helping anyone, since if people leave, they cannot learn from the hard earned and sometimes painful experiences of those who have already blazed the trails before them. If they don't learn...then they will carry on doing what they were going to do anyways...with probably the expected results, and the tears and heartache that comes with.
__________________
“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.” - Chinese Proverb

-Imaginary Illusion

How did I get here & Where am I going?
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 11-15-2013, 12:47 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,722
Default

Once again, there is confusion about natural triads, like Pulliman's, and the idea of Unicorn Hunting, examples of which are all over our dating forum.

I do not see what is "abusive" about telling people, who come here asking how to find a Unicorn, that they probably won't, since they are so rare as to be nearly non-existent, but, good luck with that.

I do not see what is "abusive" about telling people, should they find a woman who wants to date both of them, how to partner with her ethically. Seriously, you guys. You think we are too narrowly defining the Unicorn term as it is accepted in the poly community (not the swinger community, not the BDSM community), and yet you're going to call it abusive and dictatorial to point out the common issues couple searching to "add a third" to their relationship come across?

I do want to thank NYCindie for posting those links to older threads. I started reading them to further understand this popular poly phenomenon. I am curious why any woman would seek out couples to date, as it seems so loaded with landmines to get all up in the middle of a long term committed couple. So, "What's in it for a Unicorn?" was enlightening.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:13 PM
Natja's Avatar
Natja Natja is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 823
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I am curious why any woman would seek out couples to date, as it seems so loaded with landmines to get all up in the middle of a long term committed couple. So, "What's in it for a Unicorn?" was enlightening.

Honestly? I think it is because most of them don't know what they are getting into. I have not know of any repeat single "Unicorns" (please, if you are out there, come out of the woodwork) ... I have though heard of some married women who have been interested in couples but find often enough that most couples are not interested in her, despite being attractive and keen women, the fact that she cannot possibly be exclusive to them because she is married immediately makes her unacceptable
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:18 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,362
Default

The phrase "hunting for unicorns," or similar versions, is as old as the hills and has always been used in common parlance and literature to mean chasing after something we want that is mythical, imaginary, or unrealistic, and will be pretty much impossible to find. It is very similar to the phrase "tilting at windmills," which means fighting imaginary enemies. I am always surprised to find that this fact is not common knowledge.

It is NOT an "alternative lifestyle term." Come on, people. Just because it is often used in alternative circles does not mean that the phrase originated there. For example, in a biography of the poet William Carlos Williams, written in 1981, there is a chapter called "Hunting Down the Unicorn." That chapter is about Williams' efforts to complete a novel and the problems he had getting it published.

If you do a search of Google Books, you will find numerous passages in classical literature that refer somehow to chasing after or hunting unicorns. More examples: people looking to buy their dream home could say, "We're looking for our unicorn." Someone hoping to win the lottery could say "I'm looking for my unicorn" when they buy their ticket. I know I have posted about this before.

Now in poly circles, the phrase has come to be used most often to point out to partnered male-female couples how ridiculously unrealistic their fantasies are about finding a bisexual girlfriend to equally love them both. It is a response to pie-in-the-sky expectations - that is all! The phrase is not meant to say that triads, in and of themselves, are impossible. Nor does it mean that bisexual women who are into couples do not exist. No, it simply means that someone, most often a new-to-poly couple, has expectations that are so unrealistic to the point that they can never be more than a fantasy. "See here, newbie couple, you are chasing a unicorn if you think you can get everything on your wish list." It is NOT about triads, per se. It does not mean that a bi woman into couples is automatically a unicorn. Furthermore it is nonsensical for a woman to call herself a unicorn because that would mean she is a myth and not real.

Effectively, I (a straight woman) could say I am chasing a unicorn for wanting four boyfriends. It is a term that can be applied to many situations. So, let's just remember this, shall we? Calling people unicorn hunters simply means they are hoping for and pursuing an ideal which is a highly unrealistic fantasy. That is all.

/English lesson


PS - and yes, UrbanDictionary is just like Wikipedia, which means it is user-contributed. So, not a reliable source. And I say this as someone who regularly volunteers to edit articles at Wikipedia.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

Last edited by nycindie; 11-15-2013 at 01:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:20 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,722
Default

If I am being accused of promoting the idea there is only one right way to do poly, I completely reject that characterization. I hold that there are as many ways to do poly as there are people. Since it's such a new movement, I do not even know for sure what is the most common way to do it. Vs? Triads? Quads (wife swapping or bisexual activity)? Open? Closed? Who knows? I'd say, since I've been on the board a few years, I have read more about Vs than anything else, and also more open than closed relationships. But that is just who posts here. Yes, there are many polys out there who don't have major problems, and if they do, they don't think to come to a message board to ask for advice.

Triads are perfectly valid. Heck, I am in a V that is just a skosh away from being a triad myself. But it happened naturally. My metamours just happen to get along very well. There is even a tingle of sexuality between them. My bf would be perfectly happy to be closer to miss pixi, but I get the idea she wants to be independent from our dyad. She has a thing about being expected to perform sexually, just because he happens to be here and in the mood. But sometimes between miss pixi and me, we do call Ginger "our husband," despite him being legally married to someone else.

miss pixi has BEEN a Unicorn in the past. She does like being the secondary to a committed couple. She's done it 3 times. She's even been sort of in that situation since I've met her. It wasn't particularly successful, as the other woman was pretty damn jealous of her. Likewise years ago when she was a slave to 2 men. The Dom in that couple had 2 subs, his male partner and her. His male sub used to cry a lot when his Dom did kink/sex with miss p. Also, she once was close with a couple, another Dom and his slave/wife, and they sort of auditioned her for the role as their sexual and domestic slave and then dumped her rather unceremoniously when the s was jealous. miss p was heartbroken.

That is not to say attempted triads are the only poly configuration that has pitfalls and issues. I am not on a white horse looking to quash all triads. Anyone who looks at my posting history will see I advise people in all sorts of poly configurations.

Anyway! I am glad Ari is happy in his quad, and that his hunt was successful. Different strokes for different folks, and sometimes someone does win the lottery.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 11-15-2013, 02:27 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
The phrase "hunting for unicorns," or similar versions, is as old as the hills and has always been used in common parlance and literature to mean chasing after something we want that is mythical, imaginary, or unrealistic, and will be pretty much impossible to find. It is very similar to the phrase "tilting at windmills," which means fighting imaginary enemies. I am always surprised to find that this fact is not common knowledge.

It is NOT an "alternative lifestyle term." Come on, people. Just because it is often used in alternative circles does not mean that the phrase originated there. For example, in a biography of the poet William Carlos Williams, written in 1981, there is a chapter called "Hunting Down the Unicorn." That chapter is about Williams' efforts to complete a novel and the problems he had getting it published.

If you do a search of Google Books, you will find numerous passages in classical literature that refer somehow to chasing after or hunting unicorns. More examples: people looking to buy their dream home could say, "We're looking for our unicorn." Someone hoping to win the lottery could say "I'm looking for my unicorn" when they buy their ticket. I know I have posted about this before.

Now in poly circles, the phrase has come to be used most often to point out to partnered male-female couples how ridiculously unrealistic their fantasies are about finding a bisexual girlfriend to equally love them both. It is a response to pie-in-the-sky expectations - that is all! The phrase is not meant to say that triads, in and of themselves, are impossible. Nor does it mean that bisexual women who are into couples do not exist. No, it simply means that someone, most often a new-to-poly couple, has expectations that are so unrealistic to the point that they can never be more than a fantasy. "See here, newbie couple, you are chasing a unicorn if you think you can get everything on your wish list." It is NOT about triads, per se. It does not mean that a bi woman into couples is automatically a unicorn. Furthermore it is nonsensical for a woman to call herself a unicorn because that would mean she is a myth and not real.

Effectively, I (a straight woman) could say I am chasing a unicorn for wanting four boyfriends. It is a term that can be applied to many situations. So, let's just remember this, shall we? Calling people unicorn hunters simply means they are hoping for and pursuing an ideal which is a highly unrealistic fantasy. That is all.

/English lesson


PS - and yes, UrbanDictionary is just like Wikipedia, which means it is user-contributed. So, not a reliable source. And I say this as someone who regularly volunteers to edit articles at Wikipedia.
Well duh .. of course it has its place before it was used in the context of relationships, I had assumed we were discussing its many origins in the context of relationships, not the history of the word. It would be interesting to see if it had been used for relationship descriptions previously .. but dating a lottery ticket isn't exactly scandalous.. well I guess it would be.. so nm

Funny I said a number of years ago that identifying the female third of a triad as a unicorn never made sense. Bi boys have always been the harder find.. We spent some time trying to comically identify the male 3rd role in a triad.. I wonder what we laughably decided on haha

Natja.. I think if you search the forum, a few unicorn named members were self identified single unicorns at the time (they may not be now). One advocated here for a while.. I currently know a unicorn who isn't online who actively finds couples to date (she actually wanted to date my quad, which none of us were interested in). If anything what always happens is the couple wants to turn her into an equal primary which she isn't interested in so she walks away.

Actually Mags, I was a unicorn hunter, I wanted that triad. However my opinions evolved. I found enough unicorns for sex I suppose, but they never wanted to get involved in relationships since they knew they wanted to fuck couples but really wanted to be married and have kids, a triad didn't offer them that. So I changed my poly perspective several times. We just happened to fall into quad configurations the past 2 relationships while attempting to date separately. This current quad she dated on her own as the married unicorn (whatever you want to call that) haha..

But thanks for the congrats almost 3 years, 2 kids already here, and 2 kids on the way and one big happy and accepted socially family. .. thank god for the big house hahah
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
unicorn, unicorn hunters

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:11 PM.