Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 11-11-2013, 07:17 PM
Natja's Avatar
Natja Natja is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 822
Default

There is nothing wrong with making people aware of the pitfalls, if they still want to do it than that is there right but I think when someone has unrealistic expectations and that goes for all types of poly, than it is fair to point it out.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 11-11-2013, 07:19 PM
northhome northhome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
I think when someone has unrealistic expectations
And who is to judge what is unrealistic and what is not? What may be your impossible dream may be someone else's reality (and vice versa).
__________________
Compassionate toward yourself, you reconcile all beings in the world.

- Tao Te Ching
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 11-11-2013, 08:28 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by northhome View Post
That's terribly good spirited of you

However, I can think of a number of very unsuccessful ways to do Poly that could well vie for the bottom ranking. Maybe we could all chip in and make a list of Poly Nightmares?

How about this one for starters: "We're all equal".....
You know, northhome, you're beginning to annoy me. Your first sentence was sarcastic. Personally, I think sarcasm is disrespectful in communication, between friends, partners or parents and children.

Secondly, this thread is about Unicorn Hunting, so no, let's NOT talk about other "poly nightmares." Please feel free to start another thread if you'd rather not be on this one.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 11-11-2013, 08:34 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by northhome View Post
Exactly. Sometimes I get the feeling that people are simply wanting to find a new class of victims to save - and a Unicorn fits the bill. It simply doesn't sit comfortably with these 'rescuers' to accept that a person (OK, most likely a woman) might able to make clear, rational and informed decisions about her life.
Actually I get almost as frustrated with women who do seek couples, or even call themselves Unicorns! Nortthome, this thread was started in response to a closed thread STARTED by a self IDed Unicorn.


Quote:
... stop trying to save people from themselves.
Silly statement. One of the main purposes of a board like this is to share information and support between more experienced polyamorists and those that are new to it; helping people by sharing experiences so they don't have to reinvent the wheel.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 11-11-2013, 08:52 PM
northhome northhome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
You know, northhome, you're beginning to annoy me.

Your first sentence was sarcastic. Personally, I think sarcasm is disrespectful in communication, between friends, partners or parents and children.
Oh dear, oh dear.

I consider myself suitable chastised.
__________________
Compassionate toward yourself, you reconcile all beings in the world.

- Tao Te Ching
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 11-11-2013, 08:56 PM
northhome northhome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Silly statement. One of the main purposes of a board like this is to share information and support between more experienced polyamorists and those that are new to it; helping people by sharing experiences so they don't have to reinvent the wheel.
Sharing experiences is one thing. Putting people into boxes and labelling them is another. Anyway, this is going nowhere - I think we're speaking completely different languages here.

I've no doubt you mean well (and that is not sarcastic, in case you require reassurance).
__________________
Compassionate toward yourself, you reconcile all beings in the world.

- Tao Te Ching
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 11-11-2013, 11:28 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Middle of Oregon
Posts: 431
Default

yes YouAreHere, he has some good advice that can help, and most of his put downs are so subtle and indirect they aren't picked up on so they are easy to not pay attention to and pick out the tidbits of good advice he picked up from various boards like these and I really should give it a rest because because most people already know my opinion of the author

and to Magdlyn and Natja, your replies in this thread have pretty much mirrored the styles of over-exaggerating-then-dial-it-way-down as if nothing happened and you are just trying to help settle a dispute or at least clarify the points of contention so that people can disagree, agree to it, and move on.

I fully understand the inside joke of "unicorn" hunters, but when you call every couple who would like a triad, hunters, and their mythical creature a unicorn, you might as well call every person who is poly and not maxed out the number of loved one in committed relationships to also be looking for a mythical lover that doesn't exist

I understand that some people come to poly forums with completely unrealistic notions about "adding" another woman to their relationship, but looking for a another person to love is not the problem as much as it is not really understanding what love truly is, and it isn't sex, and it sure as hell isn't setting up some trap to make couples interested in poly a way to embarrass themselves.

If you don't see how you may be a little quick to call couples unicorn hunters, you are not likely to see that doing that (calling all couples who desire a triad) might play a part in people self identifying as a unicorn or a unicorn hunting couple. Most people understand that any relationship will never fit their idealized image in their head, however those who enter relationships without understanding the saying "be careful what you wish for" are probably going to blind to the fact that a good friend and genuinely caring partner will help you realize and create a functional "dream come true" relationship when you are patient enough to compromise and bend in any relationship where your partners are not taking advantage of you.


A topic can either be brought up so that it can be discussed in direct straight forward ways wherein much can be gained when all participants are genuine and honest with their words and intent behind those words. It is completely different than a debate with an intent to win the debate, or prove a theory wrong and another right. The problem with support boards this, and topics such as this, is when they are used as the debate/prove an opinion as fact -- which cannot done unless you are among those with the same opinion -- yet they are given the label of "discussion" or people who turn them into right and wrong debates using the excuse that the interwebs are filled with people who are not considerate, conscientious repliers and to expect that is ludacris

often people blur the lines of a discussion and a pissing contest debate, and that sucks, esp whenever the topic somewhat serious and not just being someone or something for a poly community to make fun of

there is nothing wrong with being wrong, or making a mistake and I don't personally see myself as having issues with not being able to admit when I am wrong or being embarrassed about making a mistake.

I have no problem with friends of FV or even devout followers, but I have little sympathy for those who pretend to not understand what I mean what I am talking when I speak of the behavior which I liken to someone grabbing a hold of the volume dial and rolling it back and forth from silent to way too loud. When I am listening to the radio and someone moves the volume from lowest to maximum, quickly back and forth I tend to get irritated.

If on top of that they claim to be attempting to help sooth listener's ears, as if that's a functional, working way to go about listening to the radio when one group likes the volume lowered and another likes it loud, it tends to piss me off

But I hear you saying, you don't understand how I think the way you, Magdlyn and Natja have been a little harsh, quick to jump to assumptions in regards to "couples" interested in polyamory only to back away with disclaimers and be much more understanding to you own attitudes by saying something to the effects of :

we are just telling them what to look for

While I agree that Magdlyn once stated a near perfect paragraph to stamp all "couples seeking" posts, if do believe if you are going to a have a stamp that is one size fits all, it should not be overly harsh and judgemental and when it is, it should be very specific about the parts it is going to judge, and if the party is not guilty why continue to harp on couples unless they are one penis policy, closed or otherwise enforced against their will polyfidelity triad?

I don't agree with the theory that poly couples (yes I know how that makes absolutely no sense to some people, but they know full well what people mean and every time they bring up the fact that they claim it makes no sense to them is only to insert a point from which to control the conversation from a fictitious point of not making sense)

I don't agree with the theory that poly couples should feel they need to be open to casually dating separately and segregated and those dates must include sex to be considered polyamory. What happens is you get a bunch of people who take advantage of polys and are looking for sex.

Just like in the every relationship world (poly, mono, non-mono and everything in between) people who get tired of being taking advantage of would rather you be their friend first. Because it is these people who genuinely care enough about you to be in a healthy relationships and are not simply "dating" you in order to get sex, become popular, have one way emotional support without supporting others, et. cetera, Et. cetera, etc...

preventing your spouse from having friends and creating lasting bonds with others is something even mono's have no trouble identifying as abusive

the same way both monos and polys tend to agree that letting someone claiming to be the friend of your spouse but is using them for sex and disrespecting your spouse, you, your relationship and the entire poly community is enabling abuse and laboring to destroy strong communities.

Most morally and ethically conscience polys have a lot more in common with mono that have morals and ethics, and instead of creating a divisions between one good group of people, it would be wise to speak out against abusers instead of polys with morals and ethics and paint the picture as the problem being with monos, couples, single men or single women, regardless of their sexual orientation

The same way that mistaking the two similar situations which are actually very distinctly different occurrences can damage a forum board-- the difference between a discussion and a pissing contest debate

For poly people to not distinguish between casual sex and a loving relationship that sex is a natural extension of, damages poly relationships and communities.

it's not that either of the similar situations is bad or wrong, but being misidentified or even just not distinguished from each other by any party involved can be very damaging, to everyone and everybody

If you are distinguishing between "true" unicorn hunter/unicorns and couples/single poly women, when people have attitudes like River Dwellers, it might be best to inform them that they are not unicorn hunters

as the subtle difference between them and unicorn hunters -- when not distiguished -- can also be damaging

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 11-12-2013 at 03:41 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 11-12-2013, 08:40 AM
SchrodingersCat's Avatar
SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
I completely understand that many people have done unrepairable damage to their relationships, I just disagree that it was the triad configuration that is the problem.
I believe that in a good many cases, it's "attachment to a specific outcome" that is the problem. When you have no flexibility about how things unroll, it makes it extremely easy to deviate from The Plan, and The Rules of The Plan stipulate that any deviations from The Plan will result in immediate termination of The Arrangement.

This thread just happens to be about attachments to triad outcomes. It's not a chicken or the egg game. We're talking about triads because that's the topic of the thread. We're not talking about other configurations because they are not the topic of the thread. It's pretty simple, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northhome View Post
Putting people into boxes and labelling them is another.
I react most strongly when people put themselves into boxes without understanding the consequences. If a straight man goes around calling himself a "fag" because he heard the word somewhere and knows it applies to men of some sort... then yeah, we're gonna have problems. This particular thread was started because someone labelled herself a unicorn when it was clear she actually wanted to be treated like an free woman with her own rights and opinions, which is exactly what a unicorn does not have.

When people merely express what they seek and I detect language or undertones that hint at patterns I've seen before, I don't just leap out and yell "BACK THEE UNICORN HUNTERS!" Depending on how strongly they come on, I might ask them to consider certain points, or if it's really bad, point them to the "Someone called you a unicorn hunter" article.
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 11-12-2013, 08:51 AM
SchrodingersCat's Avatar
SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,130
Default

Despite the irony of fuelling the fire, I think FV gets far too much attention. He's just one guy with a blog. It happens to be popular. That in no way makes him an authority, no matter how authoritative his tone may be. Like me, he has an opinion on everything and he's convinced he's right. I, at least, am capable of questioning my opinion when presented with contradictory evidence, and outright changing it with sufficient evidence to prove me wrong. I don't follow FV so I don't know if he has this capacity as well. I doubt it, because the problem with authority is that changing your mind is bad for credibility.

Like anyone who writes enough, some of what he says is gold, some is utter garbage. Anyone educating themselves on anything should consult multiple sources and use critical thinking to make up their own minds.

A lot of what he says is basically common sense. However, anyone who's spent any time talking to people knows: common sense does not exist. Common sense is what clever people figure out without assistance and therefore assume is obvious to everyone. But not everyone is clever, so the world needs people to write down common sense to make it accessible to those who lack the intellect to figure it out for themselves.
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 11-12-2013, 10:27 PM
willowstar willowstar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 86
Default

I also started this poly journey with my current husband as a unicorn hunter. I had been in a poly quad (mostly hetero) in my first marriage, but that broke up. My husband knew nothing of poly when I met him, and I was discovering my own attraction to women, so we decided we would try to find a woman we could both date. It felt SAFE to do that. I think for many (not all) of these couples, that is a huge consideration. They feel it is important to maintain the integrity of their couplehood, and to not be "cheating", and/or think it will avoid jealousy.

After many years of looking, I realized that we were really doing ourselves a disservice by trying to find, like LovingRadiance said, that one miracle person in 2% of the population...

For me, our attempt at finding a "unicorn" felt like a "safe" way for us to explore poly and for me to get my poly needs met, AND my bisexual needs met. I always made it clear to both my husband, and to any women I did meet, that we were not always having threesome sex. My attraction to women was NOT for HIS benefit. It was for myself, and for her, if he was invited to participate, by both of us, that was a bonus for him. He never had that kind of expectation. WE just hoped beyond hope that perhaps there was a women who would enjoy hanging out with us both. It was a fantasy....

I now realized that my attraction to women is present, but not as strong as my attraction for men. And, my husband, who has always had insecurity issues and preferred a one penis policy (not because he is a jerk, but because he was scared to let me be with another man because I might leave him..) is learning that my having another male partner does not take away from my relationship with him. It's kind of like phobia therapy. A little bit of exposure at a time...



Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
I think it would be helpful to both the forum and individuals if they could be honest about their prejudices and why they have them. I spoke about why I'm hypersensitive about people who demand the family style of poly with lots of metamour interaction. There was a time when I categorically believed that anyone who expresses a strong preference, let alone a need to meet metamours was a complete control freak. Time and understanding has taught me differently but I am still wary of it because of my fear that a relationship that I develop will be dictated by someone else. I think it is wise to recognise the risks in particular relationship configurations, especially the ones relevant to you, but also acknowledge when your own fears and experiences are colouring your views and leading you to make assumptions.
London, I understand what you mean by this. Yes, making demands that a certain partner "has to" socialize with the family can come across that way. However, I wonder if perhaps these people are craving or desiring community. I know quite a few poly people who prefer "inclusive" love styles, where everyone knows everyone else. And stating that they would like the new partner to be part of the "community" is okay, but I agree the individual should be free to decide how much they would like to interact with that community...

Ultimately, I think we can all "theoretically" know what kind of poly relationship we would like, until we actually try it. That is when we find out whether it will really work for us or not. I know quad works for me, just not with the people I was with. I know V can work for me, but may not work for my guys. We are still exploring.
__________________
Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming... ~ Dori


Willow ~ 44yo bi woman, married to Bear (formerly known as TB) for 18 years
Bear-Maybe poly/maybe mono straight man, still feeling it out
Armadillo (formerly known as BF) - currently out of the picture. Depression is evil...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
unicorn, unicorn hunters

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:10 AM.