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  #11  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:54 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Soooo, I confessed to Frank that I am looking for something on the emotional side with regard to Anna.
And he did not take it well. It sounds like you are developing feelings for Anna, and if you want to explore them, you should. I know you want him to be happy, but it sounds like she makes YOU happy. I would think he would want you to be happy. Maybe not.

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It was an email, which i thought was very sensitive and gentle. Fast forward a few awkward hours, he called me (i knew he was upset via a text and weird silence).
I already commented on this.

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He proceeded to vent and kind of assume lots of things. Such as how this isn't really smart, its risky.
How is it risky? Is he afraid you are going to ride off into the sunset with Anna and leave him behind? If so, he is missing a big part of poly. Yes, there are people who leave, but most people stick with the people they love while loving others.

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I dont have experience in this
And we all came out of mothers' wombs knowing how to be polyamorists or polyamorous? Umm I think not. For most, trial and error was likely part of it until they found a formula or formulas that worked. Even the most seasoned people still have room to learn and improve.

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I am jeopardizing our future
He sounds insecure, or is that the lack of trust speaking? Trusting that you will not forget him or just leave him in one of those the grass is greener scenarios.

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I have no idea how to manage conflict in this
That is what experience provides. Conflict resolution and being adequately prepared should something like this happen again.

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He really questions how i am handling this and worries him allot about how i will handle things in general in the future that i want :/ ???
Trust issues again? This just recently happened, correct? Like in weeks time? Does he not realise the dust has not settled and an immediate resolution is unrealistic?

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Perhaps just a angry vent but it went on and so on. Most of the time i was quiet and tried my best to empathize - but it was hard since yes he was making points but it felt like a firing squad was pointed at my head :/
I hope this chap has some redeeming qualities. Even if was a miscommunication or simply that he misread the vibe in your e-mail, the vent was unnecessary. He could have to you in a calm manner. Not made you start crying.

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I broke down in tears finally exploding.. "well then if i suck so much at all of this, why are you even with me? if you are questioning so much, why stay with me"?
I can understand why.

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Which sort of jerked him back to reality (i know it was silly, but i couldn't help it). In the end, he basically said there was nothing in it for HIM and it was very selfish of ME.
I have had those thoughts. "It was selfish of me. There was no benefit for him." I have been there. There is nothing in it for him. Do you feel selfish for wanting or needing more?

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But that he was going to give it a try since he has no other choice.
He has a choice, though. He is free to leave and find a woman who can be monoamorous and/or polysexual while keeping him as primary and the only one she loves.

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I am interpreting all of this since I know him very well, and believe well that it was his insecure reaction to me wanting to share my heart
He cannot share or monopolise what does not belong to him. You are in control of who you share your time, heart, and body with. You belong to yourself, and in those possessions, your heart is included.

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I told him how much i loved him...We ended up breaking the madness up with some laughs and finally things were OK.
At least there was a bright spot.

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I told him several times, how hes not ready therefor "we" are not ready.
Are you sure YOU are ready? Clearly he is not, but are you?

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But then he said, no- i just need to be heard/vent, and he was sorry for the tantrum.
Tantrums are not a good look. I do not accept it from my children, and I know I would not accept one from an adult. It is good that he apologised. He could have been heard if he had just talked to you.

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We sort of made up and he just wanted to see me again after that. and said the next step should be making the boundaries so I can see Anna again... and that we would "prevail" and he felt better and thanked me for letting him vent.
What kind of boundaries is he thinking about? Some people go a little crazy and dictate down to how many hours per day you are allowed to see x person. You can have your own boundaries, and I would advise trying to find a happy-medium. I would include Anna because she is her own person and has a voice, wants, and needs of her own that might look very different from what either of you have in mind. Things might never be "equal," but they can be fair and considerate towards all parties and their respective needs. It is possible to have more than one primary, too.
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:26 PM
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SilverSprings SilverSprings is offline
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(figured out the quote feature sort of - *my answers are below ... and thank you SO much for the time you took to answer and break it down like this... very helpful)

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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
And he did not take it well. It sounds like you are developing feelings for Anna, and if you want to explore them, you should. I know you want him to be happy, but it sounds like she makes YOU happy. I would think he would want you to be happy. Maybe not.

*She does make me very happy. He does as well. As my therapist agrees, i should do what makes me happy. Feels odd though, coming out of a long marriage of unhappiness- so this is a perfect time for this to be coming up as i am transforming.....

I already commented on this.



How is it risky? Is he afraid you are going to ride off into the sunset with Anna and leave him behind? If so, he is missing a big part of poly. Yes, there are people who leave, but most people stick with the people they love while loving others.

*Yes, he has told me is afraid to lose me, and has a sensitivity due to an exgf/prior awful heartbreak that left him bitter and untrusting. much of this is coming up now, but since day 1 - he and i were more so physical in our relationship which became many months in emotional. i think he is wondering, why now that i am emotional with her, does she seek an outside love/partner too. this is how he sees, and i honestly cant explain at all the timing. perhaps just coincidence, or that i felt more secure when he told me he loved me that i can look for a female partner.

And we all came out of mothers' wombs knowing how to be polyamorists or polyamorous? Umm I think not. For most, trial and error was likely part of it until they found a formula or formulas that worked. Even the most seasoned people still have room to learn and improve.

*exactly! my thoughts as well.. i was steamed over this, but i know that i am a smart and open minded cookie, (hence why i am here to learn from you all). my life has been one big learning experience and am always open to improving myself and relationships. i think he was really over reacting (he does this allot)



He sounds insecure, or is that the lack of trust speaking? Trusting that you will not forget him or just leave him in one of those the grass is greener scenarios.

*yes, lack of trust. he says he doesnt like the timing, and that since it is obviously not going away- we need to talk boundaries etc. (which i was pushing for) but idk... its difficult with him and i am not sure he is the kind to be in a OR. that is the sticking point and has made me really wonder.... best i can do is reassure him and stick to my word moving forward.


That is what experience provides. Conflict resolution and being adequately prepared should something like this happen again.

*agree. he seems to think poly stuff is bad news, way in the minority and weird (my vibe plus what he has said). kind of insulting to me b/c i em exploring this but perhaps he is trying to sway me.... but im a big girl, not too swayable once i make up my mind...

Trust issues again? This just recently happened, correct? Like in weeks time? Does he not realise the dust has not settled and an immediate resolution is unrealistic?

*Yes. he is putting it on ME that i am rushing things- and have only giving one weeks time to soothe things, and that he "might even be fine with all of this but the timing is so bad " kind of thing. He is someone who kind of says things and then later, realizes he Fks up and apologizes (i can be that way too...) doesn't make it OK, but better then with my ExH who never apologized nor thought he was in the wrong..


I hope this chap has some redeeming qualities. Even if was a miscommunication or simply that he misread the vibe in your e-mail, the vent was unnecessary. He could have to you in a calm manner. Not made you start crying.

*sure he does. i wouldnt be here if not, i think this kind of thing brought out the worst in him. lately he has been wanting me around allot, spending time together, smart /great job, gorgeous as hell (im very visual), amazing chemistry together and has a big heart... just not sure how open it is. He does get easily stirred up and for as harsh as he can be, he can be just as sweet and cute ... complicated for sure but perhaps thats why i like him..


I can understand why.



I have had those thoughts. "It was selfish of me. There was no benefit for him." I have been there. There is nothing in it for him. Do you feel selfish for wanting or needing more?

*thanks for relating. Yes, i do feel a little selfish, but realizing doing something right and that makes me happy- is a good thing for me. I think he will acclimate to it all, i am just balancing my needs with the 2 others in my life atm.

He has a choice, though. He is free to leave and find a woman who can be monoamorous and/or polysexual while keeping him as primary and the only one she loves.

*exactly.

He cannot share or monopolise what does not belong to him. You are in control of who you share your time, heart, and body with. You belong to yourself, and in those possessions, your heart is included.

*thank you

At least there was a bright spot.



Are you sure YOU are ready? Clearly he is not, but are you?

*tough call. how does one ever know? i already was with the girl and enjoyed some of the best and most fun times ever with a female in that way .. and its just beginning. we seem to be drawn together like magnets. she completely interests me in all ways, seems to "get" me and i feel so much happier since she came along. my strong desire is to have them both love and accept the situation. she is so easy going, completely the opposite of him. and i am somewhere in the middle ground of the two of them. I think i am ready or at least i want to be. aside from me taking his trust for granted (and then him making a mountain of a deal of it). i just wanted to see her again :/ and now i can't and it sucks. I am going to spend some time w/ him soon, so im hoping we break new ground...

Tantrums are not a good look. I do not accept it from my children, and I know I would not accept one from an adult. It is good that he apologised. He could have been heard if he had just talked to you.

*i dont either. hated my ex for his tantrums- still am haunted by them. not sure what to do to calm his fears and explosiveness, but at least 9:10 we are very even keeled and mellow when we talk. i really just pushed him with so many emails and changing my mind around this past days/weeks. i might hvae flipped too honestly. not that it excuses it and i might include that in a future conversation, that i dont accept that kind of thing.


What kind of boundaries is he thinking about? Some people go a little crazy and dictate down to how many hours per day you are allowed to see x person. You can have your own boundaries, and I would advise trying to find a happy-medium. I would include Anna because she is her own person and has a voice, wants, and needs of her own that might look very different from what either of you have in mind. Things might never be "equal," but they can be fair and considerate towards all parties and their respective needs. It is possible to have more than one primary, too.
*It was my idea, after my breach of trust. to have basic/simple bounds in place. at first, he was totally against her and i taking up time that otherwise was "reserved" for him. I quickly called him on it, saying my weekends were not owned by him. he was also looking through my cell phone... i told him that was a NO NO and he apologized saying he would respect my privacy.

Who knows where all this is going....and the fact that we dont live together or see eachother every day in some ways is easier (i have more freedom and time to see my lady partner, which i havent even had the chance to do yet ... ) and harder (trust issues). Thank you again.
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  #13  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:59 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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I had an almost identical conversation with my husband last year after a woman knocked me off my feet. He said nearly the exact same things your bf said.

I definitely remember being in this situation: you want to treat your long-term relationship with the respect it deserves, but you don't want to treat the woman you care for like "a bit on the side." You are trying to keep them both happy, and yourself.

My husband and I didn't even have an explicitly open relationship. He knew I was bisexual, and even that I sometimes made out with women, and that didn't bother him. But when I told him I wanted an intimate relationship with a certain friend, not just a flirtation, he freaked. We went in circles for months and months before we came to some acceptance of each other's needs.

Like your bf, husband told me I was "playing with fire," jeopardizing our marriage (and he was right.) I gently but firmly insisted on my own needs, though I knew I might lose my husband. It wasn't just about this woman--it was about me and how monogamy was making me feel untrue to myself. I was utterly gaga about this woman, and of course, still loved my husband. It was heaven and hell.

He tried to keep me from sleeping with her. He tried to say I couldn't use our car to drive her places. He just generally tried to exert control over the situation. His trying to control me only made me "trauma bond" with her--one night he actually threw me out of the house, and where do you think I went? Once he relaxed and said ok and just allowed my relationship with the other woman take its course, she and I imploded on our own after five months.

There were a few rules my husband refused to budge on. He refused to make friends with her, nothing I could do about that. I agreed not to bring her to our home. I could only spend one night a month with her until he got more comfortable. I couldn't invite her to join us if I were out somewhere with my husband. She said she was ok with all of this, and I believe she was. She preferred to keep things "casual."

If my husband had been more accepting of my relationship with the woman would that have changed the outcome? She turned out to be a textbook narcissist, so I'm thinking no. Luckily, my husband and I stayed together and have since had have lots of discussions and have grown from the experience.

If I had to do it over again, I would try to slow down and give my husband more time to adjust. I fell for the woman so hard and so fast, I can see how it was terrifying. I would like to think my husband has learned that trying to control, threaten, cajole, or manipulate me away from someone I have feelings for won't get him his way.

Hope my similar experience offers you some wisdom, even if its what NOT to do.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:23 PM
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LoveBunny- that was so interesting and insightful. Thank you for relating and sharing with me!! I think the big differences are that Frank and I dont live together, sometimes I think it gives me this entitled feeling of freedom (once even accidentally told my BF i was/felt single eek that opened a can of worms). So when we see eachother, we tend to keep it lighter/fun and this 'heavy' convo really took its toll on us lately (mentally but in many ways we also have connected so much and have an even stronger attraction it seems). And Anna is so so sweet and cute..! compassionate. the opposite of narcissistic i would say from knowing her as little as i do (i tend to have a good judgement on people, but heck who knows lol). thats the kicker for me :/ We have much in common, she likes to do lots of activities my BF does not, i have so many little plans/fantasies i want to explore with her.. And- i know she was in this very similar sitch with one or two other girls who had BF's. Those girls ended up going back to their BF's, which has hurt her, and I dont want to add to her pain She has also dated couples... too. but isn't looking for that now. Although, sometimes I thought maybe involving her from time to time w/ my BF (for play to start) might actually make him happy or at least let him realize there is a possibility of "something" in it for him- but i haven't wanted to ask her that. and dont know if i want that.

Some people say.. when in doubt, go without. and im in doubt right now, b/c i love love my BF soo ... and knowing things are getting emotional already w/ Anna, it seems to smell of drama or a disaster looming for some reason, or perhaps i am just being brainwashed to think that is inevitable.. I know if i did re-comitt myself fully just to my BF at least now i know later he might be open, but then i cut this wonderful girl out of my life, which sucks too b/c for me, it seems hard to find a nice girl plus we have this connection established so we both will be sad. And my BF worries i will resent him, but wont really give his blessing :/ (right now.. who knows in a little while things might ease up / calm his fears). and i know she will be hurt. But if she stays, it could hurt my relationshp with Frank which i suppose at the moment b/c of my strong love, for him, would devistate me and maybe even more painful for her later on too...so do i cut it off now? and play it on the safe side? i have run around in soo many circles over this and im tired... i want to figure this out- but it comes down to: risk it all, or play safe and cut the ties w/ Anna (at least physical/romantic, i could try a platonic friendship..... but her and i discussed that and she said she is good w/ waiting and would like more). hmmmmm

Last edited by SilverSprings; 11-08-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2013, 04:50 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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I don't think you should break it off with Anna. She doesn't deserve that, and you won't be happy. BF might be happy for a while but only if you can really fake being happy just with him (or really BE happy just with him. Can you?) I'm all for letting things play out. Personally, I never back away from a situation just because it's difficult. Big risks=big rewards. Yeah, there might be some drama, so make sure the rest of your life is in good shape. Eat right, exercise, make friends apart from your lovers. I'm serious. When I went through all this last year, it was not easy on my mind or body. It was exhausting.

It all shakes out in the end the way its supposed to. By this time next year, you'll either you'll be with bf, gf, both, or none of the above. Last year at this time I was exactly where you are now. The world didn't end for me when it didn't pan out as I'd hoped it would, and it won't for you either. So breathe!
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:06 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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How about you and Anna start from friendship? There is nothing wrong with building a strong foundation as friends. At the root of my marriage, DH and I are best friends. At least with friendship, you are accomplishing a few different things. You and her will be able to strengthen your friendship and possibly progress towards a relationship. Sex is not an absolute must. Work on establishing intimacy without the physical side, building trust with both, dating both, and learning about one another. This way she gets to stay in your life. You can continue to enjoy having her around. It will give you more time to figure out things and time to stop spinning around in circles. Since you seem to be worried Frank and his feelings in all of this, it will also give him time to get to know her, spend time around her, and see that these perceived threats are just not so. Is he against you and Anna developing a friendship?

If all this just happened a week ago, that is way too fast. Why the rush to make it "official" or to make decisions right now? I know life is short, but if you are going to do it, you need to do it right. Slow down and breathe. You are caught up in the dopamine rush you are getting from that something new: Anna, and she has you gone in the brain. You have been hit with the whammy.

Get back to dating your boyfriend, romancing it up, and back to the fun and light-hearted exchanges you guys were accustomed to. Keep talking to Anna, learning about her, any baggage, and build a friendship. You do not need the title of girlfriend, life partner, co-primary, secondary, or any of that in order to do this.

Calm down, stop with the daily, intense discussions, and get back to living life. Go out with your friends, have some drinks, do not talk about relationships, go dancing, clubhopping, attend a concert, go to a poetry club, go to the beach, or whatever. You are too focused on this.

Take some time away. Stressing over it will not change it. When you feel like you are ready and can think without getting worked up into a frenzy, figure out what YOU want and what is best for you. Take what Anna wants out of it. Take what Frank wants out of it. When you can figure it out, sit them both down and inform them of the decisions you have made. See if either of them are willing to work with you to help achieve whatever it is you desire. At the heart of it, what do YOU want? How do you want to spend your time and with who? You have to be confident and sure of what you want before you can expect anyone to even try to support or understand it.
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2013, 05:54 PM
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Fulloflove- freaking thank you! that is excellent advice all around, and feels better for me to put the brakes on, slow down and chill the F out. ahhh pressuring myself to make a decision in a way is making me feel crazy. I need to do what feels good for me, and being in a tizzy - i can not even allow myself room to "feel". I think im making even my therapist nuts LOL. so- big thanks

Lovebunny- yes, im exhausted, not sleeping good, but amazingly enough i am managing to eat well lol I need a break and will give it to myself. I have some things I know need to be attended to. many thanks
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