When is it right to discuss other potential partners and how?

I could do with speaking with the forum about something. I'm still quite new to polyamory and I'm kinda struggling with something.

When do most people think it is right to discuss taking on another partner with your existing partners? I'm just so confused and flat-out depressed right now.

I met a girl called J last night, whom I have seen out and about a few times and realised I quite liked. Last night I realised I did want to take it further, so while talking to her, I clearly said, "I am going to speak with S (my existing partner)." Nothing further happened, nor had anything other than talking happened up until that point. I thought I'd played everything by the book.

When I spoke to S she saw that as me having spoken with the other girl before speaking to her. She is furious with me. I agree that we should always talk before anything develops, but that's precisely why I backed off when I did. In reality, things can't work in such a linear way; I can't be expected to drop out of the middle of an evening out and say, "Excuse me, I'm just going to phone for permission to carry on with this conversation."

I know, generally speaking, this sort of thing involves getting the boundaries set up correctly, and making sure everything is clear, but last night I felt I was approaching a boundary wall, backed off, and was then blamed for even looking at the wall and wondering if I could cross it.

Anyway, S and I argued all last night. I learnt a lot about where our miscommunications were happening. When we calmed down, I learnt a lot more about the way she sees things. She's still really annoyed that I even spoke with J, even though all we really discussed was that we both needed to speak with our other partners. I'm gutted that I've hurt her, and sorry for myself that I may have potentially lost her. I love her to bits and would never do anything I thought might jeopardise that.

I just can't work out how I could have handled this better and it's cutting me to shreds. I really do love her.

Hmm...

Sorry, but I think your girlfriend is kind of crazy. I mean, seriously, what does she want from you? I'd be pissed if I were in your position.

Sounds like S wants to know that J (or any new person) has crossed from "friendship" into "dating potential" in your mind before you talk to the new person about changing the state of that relationship.

Is she worried about being blindsided or railroaded into something that she feels she needs time to prepare for?

It sounds like you both had different ideas of where that "I need to speak to my partner first" boundary really was, and I'm sorry this turned into an argument, rather than a discussion point, to figure out where that line really exists for each of you, and determine a compromise that works for the both of you. Hopefully you and S can talk about it with clearer heads and try to iron out the details, now that you know it wasn't completely clear.

captured

Well, she's not crazy. In true Sheldon style, her mother had her tested.

I probably should have fleshed it out a bit more to give a more balanced opening thread... We had discussed J before and she had said that it was a boundary. The reason for this is that I had met them both around the same time, a little too closely for comfort for S. We hadn't communicated it well and were, I guess, miscommunicating on the definition of a boundary, for starters.

I see boundaries falling into 2 categories-- those that are fixed, will never change and are hard limits, and those which could be open to negotiation, might require certain reassurances to overcome insecurities, etc.

Given that this was the case, and we were also miscommunicating on whether we were even ready to involve others yet (we're still new, we've only been together 3 months), with all that, it's easy to see why things weren't clear.

When we discussed J about a month ago, it was identified as a boundary, but we'd discussed polyamory in general a lot more since then, and I wasn't sure if this boundary was negotiable. I tried opening up that discussion, but was told I clearly hadn't listened the last time.

I just feel empty right now. I love S to bits. She says she's happy with me being poly, but I'm struggling to see with whom, and how. I don't want to date just anyone just for the sake of being poly, but to me it means that when I find someone I like, I am free to explore it, unless there is a very good reason not to. I wanted to open that dialogue and find out with regards to J how flexible the given reasons were, but in doing so I'm scared I've hurt S.

I really do love her so much, even with her alleged craziness.

I would have been upset as well, because you said something to the new person first. Not everyone sees it this way, but it sounds like your gf does, and I understand, because I do as well.

If one of my guys says, "I met this lady, we had a great conversation and I'm interested in pursuing her as a possible potential," all lights green. Then they can tell said person they are interested in dating.

When I met someone I was interested in last October, I told both of my partners before I ever made plans. We met at a convention and exchanged numbers for business purposes. I didn't even follow through with the business stuff before talking to the guys. (I quite literally talked to both of them that day.) After several dates with her, it became obvious that we weren't couple material. So, I never actually told her that I was interested in pursuing a potential relationship. But I had already told both guys.

I think your gf may be wanting something more along those lines. I'm guessing obviously, based upon your post.

If I'm open and looking, I mention it before I start looking. If I'm not looking, but meet someone I like and want to pursue, then I mention it when I realize I like someone else.

I'm not psychic. I can't predict when I'll meet someone I like.

I also don't think this would warrant 8 hours of argument. I would not be in a polyship with someone clearly so jealous. It wouldn't be worth all the drama. If I loved them and wanted to be with them, then I'd just be mono with them, and be sure my next partner isn't unreasonable, and wants the same things I do.

My view on this is the following:

When one agrees to a polyamorous relationship, they are consenting to their partners loving other people. Love is an organic thing. So are lesser forms of romantic attachment. The minute you start letting others control how you form this kind of attachment, you're moving away from polyamory, simply because it isn't about loving people the way someone else wants you to.

Any potential relationship you had with J was/is between the two of you, and so before you spoke to (or more like sought permission from) S, you absolutely needed to see how J felt first. S seems to want to practice a form of ethical non-monogamy where she will have the ultimate say over whom you date, and when. She feels that as you're her existing partner, she should know how you feel about someone before they do.

What this means for other relationships is that nothing can develop or progress spontaneously. Any time you wish a relationship to progress to a new stage, emotionally or practically, you'll be expected to seek S's approval first, and wait for her to be comfortable with it before it can go ahead.

Now, she might have good reason for requiring this from you. Maybe you're flakey. Maybe she is accustomed to people treating her unethically. But this might not work for you. Some people are fine with this relationship style, but others want the freedom to let relationships develop organically.

Personally, my only rule is that my partner should keep me informed of game-changing situations as soon as they can. If they expect that something new in their life will affect how or when we see one another, then I think I'm entitled to know, so I can decide if it works for me or not. So, I don't have to know about someone new until they are a fixture in my partner's general schedule. We are comfortable with being poly though, and like to hear what the other has been up to, so we gossip. It isn't disclosing though, it's general chit chat.

Just because I was his partner first does not give me the right to have agency over with whom he interacts, and how he interacts with them. I trust that he wants to be with me, and will continue to maintain our relationship as long as it's beneficial and healthy for us both. That trust reduces my need to control his other relationships.

I do love her. I would be perfectly happy being monogamous. I've honestly always considered myself situationally poly. By that I mean I recognise that some people can't have all their needs met by one person, and in those instances, I am happy for them to date others.

This is my first time exploring polyamory. S has had another boyfriend for nearly 3 years. For what it's worth, J has another boyfriend, too. I'm not sure how long they have been together. Both other couples have been open before and have always been curious about allowing something more substantial to develop.

I would be perfectly happy identifying as monogamous and dating someone who is polyamorous. The point where it gets a bit difficult for me to process in my head is that I am being told that S is fine with me identifying as poly, yet the only other person I'm interested in is a boundary (one which I previously thought was negotiable and have since learnt will never be negotiable). What I'm trying to say is that if I identify as mono I don't feel anything is missing from my life, but if I identify as poly then I don't want this to happen when I meet someone.

For what it's worth, I said last night that for now I think it's best if I do identify as mono. It helps me process where the boundaries are in my head, and I honestly don't feel like I'm missing anything by identifying this way. What I'm scared about, though, is that the damage may have already been done. I'm feeling pretty fucking empty and heartbroken about that right now.

London, when you talk about things developing organically that's exactly what I was meaning above when I said that in reality things don't always work in a linear way.

If you're happy being monogamous, cool. But I don't think it's reasonable to sacrifice the benefits a poly relationship brings you simply because you cannot build your relationships in a way that pleases your current partner. People have to acknowledge that others develop relationships differently than they do. A big part of polyamory, I feel, is accepting that, and consequently allowing the people on the relationships to decide how they develop, even if one of those people is an established partner of yours.

So she's had a bf for 3 years and is freaking because you met someone you like? Ouch, yeah is be super losses that she responded in such a way.

Why is this other person "off limits" as far as she is concerned? Is there some sort of history there?

I can't see an 8-hour fight being warranted. But I could see how a miscommunication could lead to more miscommunications that result in an 8-hour battle to straighten out all of the confusion before progress on the original topic can even be considered.

We've had some horrid battles figuring things out. But in the long run, the discussions were worth it. We learned much-needed communication skills, and we learned about ourselves and each other.

We have some people that are "off limits," as well. I would say, at least on my side, a few of those people are people I love. But there are good sound reasons Maca and GG feel they should be off limits, reasons I can agree with. So it isn't a huge issue.

Do you know what the reasons are in your case?

J is off limits because I met her so closely (in terms of chronology) to when I met S. S is not comfortable with this. I've always said S is my main priority. I always saw these issues as being to do with insecurities, and things that might one day be possible to work through, but I know following our argument yesterday this is a firm boundary that won't change.

More generally speaking, S would have a problem with me dating anyone that mixes (or might mix) in the same social circles as her. So that puts anyone on the kink scene or poly scene off limits. These are the main groups of people I would be looking to date, obviously only if it felt right. Alternatively, I would be happy dating someone whom I found who was curious about these interests. But if she started dating me as well, she would probably become a part of that scene quickly, unless she specifically wanted to be closeted about it. Now J is in the kink scene, and is in an open relationship. She's not tried poly relationships before, but would be open to the idea. Plus it felt like we had that connection, which for me is really rare.

The only options then, for me, would be long-distance relationships. But my last relationship broke down about three weeks ago, and the primary reason for this was the distance. For this reason, I would not want to intentionally seek out something long distance! If it happens and it feels right, then who cares about distance? But I don't want to specifically date people outside of London, out of choice.

The only other option this leaves me is being mono. I'm totally fine with this, so long as I'm allowed to get in that mono headspace. I really think, given that LGBT can be thought of as a spectrum, with people being heteroflexible/bi/homoflexible etc., then poly/mono should be thought of as a similar spectrum too. I sit somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. I am equally comfortable and have my life equally fulfilled with following either lifestyle, so long as it fits the relationship(s) I am in. I don't feel anything to be missing from my life by identifying as mono, but I'm having a hard job convincing S of this. I think it's because of this that she's really beating herself up, and blaming herself for forcing me to be monogamous.

The flip side is that if I'm identifying as polyamorous, and that is ok with my partner(s), then I feel restricted by having everyone in my social group off limits! It's all about the label I'm using, and the way I'm adapting myself to that label and set of boundaries. I've been referring to this as that kind of self-identification headspace. And how you see yourself is key to how you're going to seek to behave. But I can certainly be flexible in how I identify.

I love her to bits. I am terrified that I could lose her, unless this can be resolved properly.

I went to a polyamory meetup group in London tonight, and some of the people there were really great. I thought that if S had been able to hear some of the things that they were discussing, and if she had been able to challenge them, and ask her own questions, it might have helped her challenge her own thoughts and reasoning.

J is off limits because I met her so closely (in terms of chronology) to when I met S. S is not comfortable with this. I've always said S is my main priority. I always saw these issues as being to do with insecurities, and things that might one day be possible to work through, but I know following our argument yesterday this is a firm boundary that won't change.

Click to expand...

Maybe. I suggest you both read the post(s) I just made on her thread. And then, as I suggested there, take time to discuss emotional flooding. Then discuss what the concrete actions are that are a problem for her (which does sound insecurity-based) and how those can be addressed specifically, not "This person is no because [...]," but, "Insecurity arises. To work through this, so you can see this person, I need [...]"

S would have a problem with me dating anyone that mixes (or might mix) in the same social circles as her. So that puts anyone on the kink scene or poly scene as off limits too. These are the main groups of people I would be looking to date... Alternatively, I would be happy dating someone who I found who was curious about these interests, but if she started dating me, she would probably become a part of that scene!

Click to expand...

This reply is for both of you. Nope, that isn't reasonable. Not wanting to socialize closely is reasonable. Not wanting you to date in the poly or kink scene is not reasonable. I realize that in many places (like where I live), these scenes are small. But that's the reality of having alternative relationship styles. The dating pool is smaller.

S needs to really look harder into herself about what her insecurities/fears are, and address them. It's ok if she doesn't want to create friendships with metamours, and it's ok if she prefers you not date her close friends. But to mark off the people in existing alternative lifestyle circles is the same as saying "You can't date anyone who isn't monogamous," which is absurd.

but I don't want to specifically date people outside of London!

Click to expand...

That is reasonable.

I love her to bits. I am terrified that I could lose her unless this is resolved properly.

Click to expand...

Very important. It sounds like she wants to resolve it properly too. It may take some time, with quite a few pauses to let emotions cool. But it certainly can be done, and you will both be better for it, if she can deal with her emotions, and find a way through to compromising (which by its nature means that both parties give up some of their preferences in order to make things work).

I went to a polyamory meetup group in London tonight. Some of the people there were really great. If S had been able to hear some of the things that they were discussing, and if she had been able to challenge them, and ask her own questions, that might have helped her challenge her own thoughts and reasoning.

Click to expand...

Oh, I have had that experience too often. But neither of my guys are interested.

LondonGuy said:

J is off limits because I met her so closely (in terms of chronology) to when I met S. S is not comfortable with this. I've always said S is my main priority. I always saw these issues as being to do with insecurities, and things that might one day be possible to work through, but I know following our argument yesterday this is a firm boundary that won't change.
S would have a problem with me dating anyone that mixes (or might mix) in the same social circles as her. So that puts anyone on the kink scene or poly scene off limits. These are the main groups of people I would be looking to date. I would be happy dating someone who I found who was curious about these interests, but if she started dating me, she would probably become a part of that scene... J is in the kink scene and is in an open relationship...

The only option that that leaves me is a long-distance relationship. But my last relationship broke down... the primary reason for this was distance... I would not want to intentionally seek out something long distance, out of choice!

I really think... poly/mono should be thought of as a similar spectrum. I sit somewhere in the middle of that spectrum... I don't feel anything to be missing from my life by identifying as mono, but I'm having a hard job convincing S of this. I think it's because of this that she's really beating herself up and blaming herself for forcing me to be monogamous.

The flip side is that if I'm identifying as poly, and that is ok with my partner(s), then I feel restricted by having everyone [local] off limits...

I love her to bits and am terrified that I could lose her unless it's discussed properly.

I went to a polyamory meetup group in London tonight. Some of the people there were really great. If S had been able to hear some of the things that they were discussing, and if she had been able to challenge them, and ask her own questions, then it might have helped challenge her her own thoughts and reasoning.

Click to expand...

It's as if she's intentionally limiting whom you can date in such an extreme way in order to make it nearly impossible to date/meet someone. I wouldn't be surprised if new boundaries are set when you do meet people.

Inyourendo said:

It's as if she's intentionally limiting whom you can date in such an extreme way in order to make it nearly impossible to date/meet someone. I wouldn't be surprised if new boundaries were set when you do meet people.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but I don't think so, based upon her thread. I think she is suddenly encountering the need to actually consider how to make things work, and what she needs to do with herself in order for that to be possible.

I remember Maca asking "WTF?" when I was suddenly insecure and jealous over his first interest. He said, "You are the one who brought poly into this. How can you be insecure and jealous?" He made all sorts of assumptions about how I must be playing games and manipulating and trying to control him, have my cake and eat it too, not letting him date others, etc.

The truth is, until we encounter this experience, we won't know for sure how we will feel. If we haven't done a lot of working on managing how we react, that can be a big drama when things change suddenly.

Also when multiple big things change suddenly at one time, that in itself, even if they are changes we want, can be overwhelming. Once someone is emotionally flooded, they don't react sensibly, because they aren't sensible. They have to get back to unflooded before they can be rational.

There's a lot going on in her world, too. I think it's bad timing.
A few miscommunications between the two of you.
Some fear and insecurity on her part, some of which was largely unexpected by her.
A need to do some mind clearing.
A need to wait until the big life-changing events of this week are finished (because focusing is hard when you are busy with life-changing events).
A need for some serious discussion about what the issue really is, because it's not "this other lady," and it's not "him being poly."

I think this is resolvable. Not tonight. Not tomorrow. But definitely resolvable.
Both people are clearly interested in finding a solution. Both are clearly interested in each other's needs.
Both are clearly seeing where their own errors were.
Both are asking for suggestions and help and constructive criticism of their own thoughts and actions.
All great signs for a mutually agreeable solution to be found. You just need some creative adaptation and calm, caring, considerate conversation.

Wow. The way I see it, S is an insecure control freak and is making a mountain out of a molehill. Are you seriously going to put her in charge of your life, dictate whom you are "allowed" to date (ridiculous!), and even to whom you may speak? I personally would not tolerate that bullshit from anyone. Wow.

Your responsibility is to manage your relationships. Hers is to manage her relationships. But she doesn't have a right to manage your other relationships, those she is not a part of. Doing that is just a dictatorship. She should just worry about her relationship with you and not what kinds of conversations you are having with anyone else. Sheesh. Sounds like junior high.

Yeah, agreeing to a poly relationship, and then effectively cutting off your only means of meeting poly people is a way of controlling you. It seems like she is happy to let you have the same things she does, because she has agreed, but she really has no intention of letting you have healthy relationships with other people.

Having reread both this and the thread which S posted, I can see that NRE affects people in different ways. We really do all date differently!

S talked a lot about the NRE feelings she was having towards me, and I guess I didn't really understand what she was referring to. I felt this enormous sense of, "Wow, this feeling is amazing!!" but I didn't do so at the expense of time with my existing partner B. (EDIT: I should point out B and I split up about 3 weeks ago, though this was more because of distance than anything else. We've stayed great friends and have agreed to tag on the "with benefits" whenever we're in the same city.)

I felt I settled into a relationship with S very quickly. I was totally smitten. That feeling hasn't died down, nor will it. I consider myself exceptionally lucky to have fallen on my feet so cleanly in the poly community, with me being so new, and even more lucky to have found someone who makes me so happy.

I found it hard to relate to the NRE she was talking about, as it just felt natural and normal. It didn't feel like an overpowering sudden emotion which blew me away, and then fizzled out to nothingness. It was just right. By contrast, S talks about how she hardly recognised there was a room around us, let alone other people in it. I think she's scared that if I date others I will be affected by NRE in the same way she was, rather than affected again by it in the way I was.

Whether I identify as mono or poly, and whether that identification is ever under review, I do want to continue to uncover and work on any insecurities either of us might have. I feel in my heart I do have the capacity to love more than one person, and maintain those relationships healthily. But I want to reassure anyone I date that I will never put other partners' needs first at the expense of theirs. So in this instance I wouldn't ever let my feelings for J (or any other girl I might meet) affect the love I have for S, or the time I have with her.