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  #101  
Old 03-31-2011, 04:55 AM
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Carma Carma is offline
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MrFarFromRight,

I do believe you are Mr Quite Close To Right, in your observations!!! They have a great love affair going on, these three. I see it, too
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  #102  
Old 03-31-2011, 01:38 PM
Beodude123 Beodude123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenAgain View Post
Why does it have to be complicated?

How is it not complicated? We all started out happy. I start to pull back, and you stop showering me with love and sex. This causes me to pull back more, and feels like there is a disconnect between us. J pulls back because he isn't comfortable, which makes you frustrated. When I see you frustrated, it makes me mad, since poly doesn't seem worth it to me at that point, since the super love and sex is gone, and you aren't happy. Aaaaand then we cycle on down the bowl.

Every couple of hours, I can spin a wheel of emotion, and whatever it lands on, is how I feel until I spin again. For me, that's about as complicated as it gets, seeing as to how I never had a problem before with consistency.
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  #103  
Old 03-31-2011, 04:13 PM
JenAgain JenAgain is offline
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I've already told you this, but I've never stopped showering you with love. The sex has slowed down (but still far more frequent than it was before this all started), but it's hard to stay turned on when you are a mix of emotions and I never know how you are feeling. Love and sex are not synonymous.
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  #104  
Old 04-01-2011, 03:55 AM
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idealist idealist is offline
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Originally Posted by JenAgain View Post
. I also think you are correct, and exactly what I meant about why does it have to be complicated? I feel like we're beating a dead horse half the time because all of this discussion about something that isn't really even happening. He said he was tired of talking about it every day, so I didn't mention it for a day and a half and that ended in last nights big cry session..
I was thinking more like cutting back to one conversation per week for at least 3 months and just living the rest of the time. But, I have a feeling that it will be like going cold turkey after a major alcohol or drug addiction. Virtually impossible at this point. These discussions and the emotional highs and lows realated to them have become like a drug for you guys. Just as with an addiction, you have lost your ability to stop at this point. I really feel for you guys...... it has to be frustrating and a bit scary.....how do you get off this roller coaster!?!?!? Not to mention how much time and energy is getting used up. You have a lot of support here.....I hope you guys can get it sorted out!!!

Sending best wishes and good thoughts your way!!!
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  #105  
Old 04-01-2011, 11:38 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Originally Posted by idealist View Post
You have a lot of support here
I'll second that.
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Originally Posted by idealist View Post
I hope you guys can get it sorted out!!!
I'll second that.
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Originally Posted by idealist View Post
Sending best wishes and good thoughts your way!!!
That makes 3 seconds.
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If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #106  
Old 04-12-2011, 03:33 AM
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Well, we had our break! It was pretty nice I guess. We had a small set back last Tuesday where we discussed it for a minute. Then we had our first counseling session as a couple on Friday. It's a counselor that I see regularly that also does marriage counseling so she was more than happy to see him as well.

She did say that we have a great foundation for our relationship. We have a lot of love, and great communication. Other than disagreeing on the poly front, we don't have any problems. She was very neutral on the subject, and seemed supportive of both of us.. validated each of our feelings. I don't think it gave us much progress off the bat, but we go back on Thursday as she wants to get a little deeper in to hubby's history. It was nice to be able to get some direction to where his feelings were coming from.

Of course after a nice day, we had a misunderstanding that evening. We had had some drinks and ended up having a HUGE fight. A fight like we have never been in before. It both terrified, and devastated me. I have never seen hubby get that angry before, it was a side of him I hope I never see again, and it broke my heart that I caused it. The misunderstanding only started his anger, but he's angry because I am poly. He thinks I want to fuck every guy that I talk to, and that if I say that I love them, that means I want to screw them. I tell my friends I love them all the time, male or female, I'm a lovey person. I keep replaying a key part in my head and it makes me cry every time. After everything that he says bothers him, I'm afraid to look at my phone texts because he thinks I'm not giving him enough attention, I'm afraid to have facebook conversations, because he might think I'm talking to another guy, I'm afraid to talk to any male friends because I automatically must want to have sex with them, I'm afraid to ask to go anywhere because I don't want him to think I'm making him babysit while I'm partying. I was crying uncontrollably at one point and couldn't catch my breath and he came over and calmed me down and apologized until eventually I fell asleep.

The next day I had my first (on the roster) derby bout, and I just couldn't get in the mood. I was feeling down and depressed about the fight the previous night. He apologized and I calmly suggested maybe we shouldn't drink anymore. He seems to dwell on things more when he drinks. I don't drink very often, but I can't ask him to stop and not stop myself. After I got out on the rink I was feeling better and by the time we were done I was feeling pretty much back to normal.

Sunday we had a nice day, had a BBQ with a friend, had 3 of Drew's coworkers (including J) come over and watch the sleeping kids while we went on a skate date. Which brings up another issue... J was suppose to be in out of town (3 hours away) visiting family until the 23rd, and yet here he was at Drew's coworkers house (who is also our neighbor). At the same time, on Facebook, I see pics of him and his "GF" half way across the country, how much she loves him and that she's moving here after she graduates high school. So, I'm voluntarily stepping away. He hasn't told me any of this, but it's right out there on FB, so I don't know why he consistently lies about where he is going? It's not that I even really care. When I ask him where he's going on leave, I'm just making conversation. I really hope that she is who makes him happy, but I just don't understand why he can't just TELL me that. I still want to be friends but I'll let my hubby do the inviting over when we're all here, I'm not going to invite him over during the week unless he asks about it, and then I will keep it platonic as long as I know that they are still "together". Me putting any more effort into it on my part is too hard on me, because I DO have strong feelings for him.

Maybe sometime in the future if it doesn't work out with his GF, maybe we can try again if somebody else hasn't come along (if we can even come to an arrangement that works for hubby and I), but for now, keeping things platonic. I still really want him to be part of our family, the kids love him and he's a good friend, but I'm more and more certain now that as for as a romantic relationship with him at this point, it's just not going to work for me.

I told hubby I would probably dive into my friendships a bit harder for a while to help me keep my mind occupied and off of J, but that if somewhere along the line that I have any interest other than friends he will be the first to know. I don't want him to think that all of my friends are people I want to have a romantic relationship with.

Hubby and I discussed this today. I tried something new. I set the timer for 10 minutes, and I led the conversation, told him what I was thinking. Then set it for another 10 minutes and let hubby lead the conversation. Neither one of us needed the full 10 minutes and when it was over we hugged and kissed and continued on with the day.

He says he does better when he thinks of poly he just pushes the whole thought out of his head. I don't really see what's wrong with that. He doesn't need to think about it 24 hours a day. If we can keep it at 10 minutes each, once a week to discuss any changes that we might feel we need and reflect on the past weeks thoughts/feelings, why does it need to come up any more than that at this point? I just don't know what to do in the event of an "emergency" like the misunderstanding that happened on Friday. If he would have said something at the beginning, then it would have gotten straightened out before could get angry about it.

So that's been the update for the last week and a half. I'm hoping that it continues in a positive direction. We've had some setbacks.. some big, some small.. but I still think it's progress. I think it might improve now that there is no other person at the moment.
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  #107  
Old 04-12-2011, 10:07 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Wow! Heavy stuff going on! I'm glad that the fight with Drew calmed down and that he apologised, but it indicated that there's something serious there. It's up to him if he wants to work on it.

Getting drunk (or stoned) often works to let the inhibitions crumble and the truth comes out. When we're sober, we can usually pretty much control what we do and say. Some people even control what they think that they believe... or what they think that they feel. That might mean what we believe others want us to say or how they expect us to act. When we're drunk (or stoned) it's harder to make sure those little "unacceptable, unreasonable" things stay hidden.

So Drew might be "trying to be understanding" and hiding from you (and himself?) just how angry he really is deep down about this poly thing.

In my opinion, it's not enough just to try and stay sober, because the getting drunk does tell you both a truth: that there's real anger there. It's that that you, Jen, have to realise and work with... and Drew (I hope) will want to work on getting rid of his anger - not just hiding it successfully, so that both of you can pretend that it's not there. (In that case, expect another explosion sometime.)

If it's any help, I've (personally) found that getting stoned is better than getting drunk at uncorking the bottle and then also giving you insight and willingness to change. I was once on not-speaking-to-you terms with a neighbour for a year and a half. (And this was in a tiny neighbourhood of maybe a dozen people.) This also started as a misunderstanding and a bout of jealousy (on his part). The fact that I didn't get stoned often is illustrated by the fact that I didn't in all that time. But when I did... it hit me hard! And when I did, I thought: "How ridiculous we're both being!" The next time I saw him (and I wasn't stoned then), I asked him for a hug.

And you should have seen the mixture of relief and joy on his face!

[Legal warning: Illegal drugs are illegal for a good reason - they are dangerous! Please don't fuck wit' drugs. The former 2 paragraphs should not be construed under any circumstances as the author's wish to condone drug use.]
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #108  
Old 04-12-2011, 03:04 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenAgain View Post
Love and sex are not synonymous.
We are having some issues with this as well. Another thing -- sex can be "making love" or "fucking" or some blend of the two -- ?

For us, poly and drinking are not a good mix. We've found that out, too. But -- we do still play with that fire.

Sounds like you two have some of the same codependency issues we have been struggling with. I hope the counselor will help -- ours was invaluable. I still have a lot of confusion about what is "healthy" and what is codependent in a marriage. We have created some deep grooves in our relational patterns and it's not always easy to reconsider some of them, let alone trying to change them.

Poly was so freeing for me because it is outside of the conventional restraints and expectations of marriage. Yet Sundance was very comfortable within those conventions, and now I've gone and rocked the boat.... I'm still not so sure we're not going to capsize at any given moment. Especially when his anger flares up. It's scary and sometimes (USUALLY) it catches me off guard. I try and detach when I can, from feeling responsible for his outbursts of anger -- I mean, I don't explode like he does, so I don't understand. As for me, I get angry but I usually try to keep my cool until I can speak rationally. I mean, I really work at this -- he doesn't always. To me, it's just not ok to take my anger out on someone else. But isn't it ok for him to EXPRESS his anger? Sure -- I just can't be overly sensitive, maybe? I mean, he isn't physically violent, ever. But he does say hurtful things. He always apologizes for that later. And it goes back to that cycle, where I know I am asking too much of him, to accept something that is just not acceptable to him -- at least not all the time. I can't always predict when one of those times he ISN'T acceptable of it, will be...

So here we are on this roller coaster ride (I prefer that to MERRY-GO-ROUND, but sometimes that feels like a better analogy ) (It's not an especially happy day in poly world, for me today.)
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  #109  
Old 04-12-2011, 03:53 PM
Beodude123 Beodude123 is offline
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Originally Posted by JenAgain View Post
He thinks I want to fuck every guy that I talk to, and that if I say that I love them, that means I want to screw them.

While I know that the things I said were ridiculous, and I really don't think you want to screw everybody you see, the feelings behind that statement were genuine. Hurt, anger, jealousy.... I've been feeling very hurt lately... It hurts that she wants more than me. That I can't give enough love, enough sex, enough anything for her to be happy. It just absolutely kills me, since I am happy with everything I get from Jen.

Now it's like I'm taking my anger out on her a bit. The fight over the weekend, and last night a bit too. I had a hand wringing thing again last night, and couldn't go to sleep last night. I sat in bed for about an hour and a half before I said screw it, and came out to the living room. Jen was asleep, but she was trying to comfort me if I was laying down (I was in and out of bed a few times). I didn't want to have any of it, and kept scooting over. Her touch wasn't comforting at all, which just made the wringing worse. I finally took some Tylenol PM so I could fall asleep.

She finally woke up, and asked if I was angry at her... I told her no, so that way we could go to sleep. I'm not angry at her... I don't know. I'm just not sure what to feel sometimes, and what my feelings are focused on.







Last week was a nice reprieve though. It was nice not having wringing episodes every day, and having something poly related filling my thoughts all the time. I didn't like just pushing the thought out of my mind every time the word poly came up, since it's just ignoring the issue, but like I said it was nice.

Jen thinks that if nothing poly related is going on, that it'll be easier on me. While this is sort of true, it's just the concept of poly that I have the problem with, so it's always going on, as far as my thought patterns go.
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  #110  
Old 04-12-2011, 06:27 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Beodude, Jen loves you. She loves you. She loves you. Don't forget that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beodude123 View Post
It hurts that she wants more than me. That I can't give enough love, enough sex, enough anything for her to be happy. It just absolutely kills me, since I am happy with everything I get from Jen.
I really feel for you, I do.

Okay, so this might be hard to explain, but you are hurting yourself; she is not hurting you. For some reason you have interpreted Jen's ability to love more than one person as meaning that there is some deficiency or inadequacy in you. NOT TRUE. It is not about being enough or not enough for her. Try to get that in your head. You seem to think about your relationship as something where the two of you are supposed to fulfill each other's needs, rather than a loving partnership in which you experience life together.

I know she has said that when she realized she could have feelings for someone outside of your relationship that she felt something had been missing til then. That does not mean that the things that were missing were about you at all. I suspect the thing that was missing was simply acknowledgment that it was possible. It's possible for you too. Aren't there numerous people in your life that you feel love for? Why does Jen's desire to expand that love into something sexual, with the right person, threaten you so much? I'm not asking that glibly, but saying that to you as something to ask yourself and examine closely.

This insecurity and feeling inadequate is something that is there in you all the time, and has been triggered by this new chapter in your marriage. But it is yours to look at and decipher - with compassion for yourself. I think every time you tell yourself you are not enough for Jen, you need to step back from it and look at where in you that statement comes from. What other times in your life were you feeling "not enough?" It might have started in early childhood, and is a familiar feeling, but that doesn't mean it's valid or true. You are enough. This I know, even without knowing the two of you personally. You are enough. And Jen loves you.
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 04-12-2011 at 06:29 PM.
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