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  #11  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:18 AM
Pienata Pienata is offline
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We also talked about Tizza. Two weeks ago, it was a nasty surprise for me when he said "I just want you to stop paying attention to Tizza for a while." I said, asking me to slow down was perfectly reasonable perhaps, and I wanted to talk about it, but he didn't. He asked me to just stop paying attention to him because he asked me to. I asked how long "for a while" was. He said he didn't know, maybe two weeks, maybe three months and maybe forever. I said that wasn't reasonable towards Tizza as I couldn't string him along for "maybe some day" seeing him again. It ended in a fight with Bambi refusing to explain to me why he asked such a thing of me and saying things like "clearly it's too much trouble for you". Not paying attention to Tizza included not mentioning his existence to Bambi. I decided to drop the entire subject the rest of the week and let his sentiments cool down.

When I brought it up last week he said he didn't want to talk about it and that I was clearly incapable of not paying attention to Tizza considering the fact that I brought it up again. I thought, well, if I can't bring it up and the "clock" of "for a while" resets every time I do... I will just have to wait until he says "hey, you know, it's okay if you start seeing Tizza again." And I knew he wouldn't. So basically, he set me up to fail (in my point of view, tell me if I'm wrong)

Yesterday I finally got him to elaborate on his reasons for asking me to stop paying attention to Tizza altogether. It basically came down to me getting carried away by NRE, though he didn't use that word as he's not familiar with poly vocab, it's the easiest way to describe it to you. He felt it was Tias before and after, and even if I had seen Tizza 8 hours in one week, he had to hear about it for 16 (in his explanation). He said he may not have told me literally but gave me enough "hints", but apparently I wasn't paying attention to the world around me anymore because I was wearing Tizza-blinkers. This he said. He gave a few examples that I kind of agree with. For him, the logical step was to remove those blinkers and ask me to stop paying attention to Tizza completely.

This is where I disagree. If I don't respond to hints (apparently), he could have just told me how he felt directly. But in his view he did by asking me to stop paying attention to Tizza. He also said that if I had actually dropped the matter since it might all have been okay now. The fact that I didn't was "proof" to him that it wasn't going to get better, and he said our conversation yesterday pushed him towards never being okay with it ever again. As I said before, I feel that by not explaining his reasons to me earlier, he set me up to fail.

As for polyamory in theory, which we kind of discussed somewhere in between, we actually had a less emotionally charged conversation. I do know now that he doesn't subscribe to polyamorous ideas anyway. He basically said: It's okay to me if you have sex with someone, it's okay if you do it multiple times, and if you have feelings for him, that's fine; I enjoy sex better when I do feel for someone. But it can't be like a second relationship. It just doesn't work that way in nature, maybe with one alpha male and some females, but multiple men will just kill and eat eachother. (paraphrase)
(yes, I did tell him that men with a harem had nothing to do with relationships at all and that that's just oppression of women )

So at this point, I know he's not okay with me having a relationship (or something resembling a relationship) with Tizza, and he felt it was going that way, so he cut me off. However I did develop feelings for Tizza during that time and I'm not quite satisfied with this outcome.

I do feel I understand him better now, but we have different views on the matter. Do I need to settle for this, or make a choice to be with someone who agrees with me on these matters? Is there still a chance of changing his mind, as "it just doesn't work that way", is due to society's values and not conscious choice? Though I think society norms aren't quite Bambi's problem, he usually doesn't give a damn about society norms (he introduced Tizza jokingly as my second boyfriend to people he knew, before anything was wrong, so he doesn't seem very concerned with society's views). Bambi claims it's nature and compares to "other primates" like baboons when he says there can only be one alpha male.

Any tips on what to do now? Have we reached an impasse?

More of a response to Dirtclustit:
I think some of your points may have become slightly irrelevant since I finally talked to Bambi. As for the holding off forever part; I do feel that was Bambi's plan, as you can read above, I feel he set me up to fail his "tests".. We don't seem to agree on the polyamory thing, and I don't know if that's something we can change.

I do know what I want in life, I've done the serial monogamy thing as a teen and it took me a while to realise I didn't stop caring about the people I left for another, I just felt obliged to choose because society expects you to love one person at a time. Sure, I was a teen, and teens don't know shit. I'm 22 now, and I still don't know shit; all I know is that I CAN love multiple people, and can love them properly. I have loved Bambi through all of it and he can't and doesn't deny that he knew and felt that.

I just wish I could still have the opportunity to show Bambi that I can do this right, but I fear that that ship has sailed..



Yes, I suck badly at summarising, sorry for the long story.
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:26 AM
london london is offline
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You have to either be satisfied with having casual sexual relationships. A regular swinging partner, say. Or you find someone who is polyamorous.
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  #13  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:56 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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I am sorry. That is a tough one. Given Bambi's inability to communicate (at least easily - without fear of losing you), his apparent lack of desire to improve this skill, his propensity to blame others for what has transpired without owning his part (did he ever acknowledge that he contributed to the issue by not communicating?), and his expectation that you read his mind with the double whammy that your inability to do so is some sort of failure on your part, does not bode well for the two of you existing as a polyamorous couple.

I see no way that you can acclimatize him to the concept without communication.

Last edited by bookbug; 10-22-2013 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Typos
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:26 PM
Pienata Pienata is offline
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Originally Posted by bookbug View Post
I am sorry. That is a tough one. Given Bambi's inability to communicate (at least easily - without fear of losing you), his apparent lack of desire to improve this skill, his propensity to blame others for what has transpired without owning his part (did he ever acknowledge that he contributed to the issue by not communicating?), and his expectation that you read his mind with the double whammy that your inability to do so is some sort of failure on your part, does not bode well for the two of you existing as a polyamorous couple.

I see no way that you can acclimatize him to the concept without communication.
He does own his part now, he really doesn't want to lose me and promised to try to talk to me more and earlier despite his difficulties. But as for Tizza, he thinks it's insensitive of me to even ask for another chance to do it right. He acknowledged it might have been partially his own fault, but currently he can't even hear Tizza's name without flinching. He said it might have gone right, but it didn't, and there's no way back from that now.

I'm sure I can some day in the future talk to Bambi about polyamory and he might be open to trying; he usually lets me free and is not generally the jealous type. But it will be in the future and not directly related to something that already went wrong..

Basically what he says is; sure you might get another chance. But not with Tizza. Better luck next time.
To me that feels like making Tizza a disposable unit, which is obviously not how I feel.

Breaking up with Bambi over this doesn't make sense if he really wants to improve our communication; I know he's maybe open to giving it a shot later, so breaking up over irreconcilable differences concerning relationship values also seems largely unnecessary. It's just not going to happen with Tizza. Breaking up for Tizza also doesn't make sense, because then I lose Bambi and that isn't any better than losing Tizza.

Looks like I have to take my loss here.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:34 PM
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You're teaching him that all he has to do to get his way is sulk at you for a while. He's teaching you that you have to walk on eggshells around him and that whatever happens it's all your fault for not reading his mind. Not, in my opinion, a healthy dynamic, and easily prone to escalation into codependency and abuse.
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  #16  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:42 PM
Pienata Pienata is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emm View Post
You're teaching him that all he has to do to get his way is sulk at you for a while. He's teaching you that you have to walk on eggshells around him and that whatever happens it's all your fault for not reading his mind. Not, in my opinion, a healthy dynamic, and easily prone to escalation into codependency and abuse.
I made him talk to me for hours yesterday. He doesn't particularly enjoy it, but promised he would try to do better in the future as I said I couldn't live this way, constantly having to walk on eggshells. I know it'll probably take time to see if anything changes, but I don't want to break up at the first sign of difficulties where there are no other problems. Our conversation yesterday, though there were highs and lows, was more open than any before that, so I see reason to believe he will at least try..
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:58 PM
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Promises are easy to make when you have no intention of following through on them. You need to decide what you'll do if he doesn't stick to what he says he'll do. Will you stand up for yourself or will you back down again to stop him making sad puppy-dog eyes at you?

Edit: This isn't a poly issue, it's a "not being a doormat" issue.
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2013, 02:06 PM
Pienata Pienata is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emm View Post
Promises are easy to make when you have no intention of following through on them. You need to decide what you'll do if he doesn't stick to what he says he'll do. Will you stand up for yourself or will you back down again to stop him making sad puppy-dog eyes at you?

Edit: This isn't a poly issue, it's a "not being a doormat" issue.
I know it's a not-being-a-doormat-issue. I just.. am not a typical doormat. I have treated people like one in the past rather than being treated as one and lately I've been trying my utmost best to treat everyone nicely and the way they deserve to be treated. This includes Bambi. I tend to think, like all people, that I'm right and he's wrong but I also think that I'm biased. So yes, I sometimes do wonder: "Maybe it's true what he says and what I'm asking is insensitive and unreasonable."

This applies to my wish to see Tizza in particular. Things went awry and feelings were hurt and I'm not sure I can demand anything from Bambi right now on that matter (even though he was part of the problem). Society as a whole seems to agree completely with Bambi on this, this forum being a rare exception.

It does NOT apply to the non-communication problem. If this continues in the same way forever, I will say goodbye to Bambi. But I will not do it now, since yesterday was the first time we really managed to talk it through, and the first time he promised to make an effort. I believe he at least deserves that chance. I realise those promises are easily broken, but he has not done that just yet.

He does do the sad big brown eyes thing well, hence my dubbing him "Bambi".
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2013, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
You have to either be satisfied with having casual sexual relationships. A regular swinging partner, say. Or you find someone who is polyamorous.
I agree with London.
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:48 PM
london london is offline
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Um, can we stop saying that he needs to "improve" and that will mean him being more accepting of having a poly relationship. If my partner tried to push me into something I have clearly stated I do not want, I would dump them. But if I was stupid enough to not dump them for continually pushing my limits, my communication skills would be a bit fucking skewered after a while.
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