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  #11  
Old 10-16-2013, 04:36 PM
msbiman msbiman is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
Can you accept that neither your wife or you can be happy (at the same time) in a romantic relationship because your needs are incompatible?
yes, but that doesn't mean i can't try to make it possible
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  #12  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:26 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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First of all, I tried to take the needs assessment, registered everything but could not figure out how to do the assessment.
I meant just print out the page on paper and then circle the ones that resonate for you right now with a pen. It's not an online quiz. It's just a list of needs.


Quote:
you are right about the layers, I'm not sure I could separate them enough to take care of each separately, but it's worth a shot.
Well, could try to group them into themes or groups. For example --
  • Things I can do today.
  • Things I can do, but will take a few weeks/months.
  • Things I can do, but might take years.


Quote:
The problem is that when I presented the idea to her, I promised her that if she said no I would never bring it up again. If she ever changed her mind, she could bring it up, but I never will. I always keep my promises.
Then it is off the table.

Could stop bringing it up and check it off your list and focus on the other areas of discontent.

Quote:
Quote:
What need does being with a man fulfill for you?
Being safe, being protected, being cared for, being loved, being secure, being taken care of, feeling his warm body against mine, his arms around me, making me calm, contented, feeling safe.
Those are the need words -- the need to feel safe, secure, loved, etc.

Are you willing / able to feel these things with your wife? A friend? What blocks you from feeling these things with wife or a friend?

You and I are using some words differently. All this?

Quote:
Everything you said makes sense, and is quite possibly be what is going on. But, when this first happened, she was my main concern, I did not want her to not have her needs to be met, so for a few years we did other things in place of intercourse. We bought some toys, including a strap on, which worked fine for a while, until I got to where I could not even do those things.
This is not "in place of intercourse" to me. To me this stuff IS sexual intercourse activities. Just not "penis-in-vagina" or "penis-in-anus" sexual intercourse activity.

Quote:
Now the thing is when I first started craving a man, I was 5y/o, and dreamed of having a big strong man come and protect me from what I was going through I was always the bottom because I wanted to be with a man, and if he was a real man he had to be top. It is not the "Fully functional lover"
I don't know how you define "real man" besides "able to get and maintain an erection." You could examine this. Because a lot of your self worth seems tied up in your erection working or not.

To me "fully functional lover" means a lover who is able to share sexual activity with a partner to mutual happiness. You do not seem happy sharing sex activities with your wife. You seem to focus on the things you don't get to share anymore, so your focus in life is on LOSS a lot.

No wonder you feel sad a lot.

Quote:
Yes, I still need to make peace with my illness, which is hard to do considering that I know that unless I die first, I will be paralyzed from the waist down eventually.
I am sorry to hear your illness will include this loss of mobility. It is hard. So redefining "sex share" will come for you and wife earlier than some couples who age together and don't redefine it til later on. You will have to plan ahead for that future.

In the meanwhile... that future is not yet here. So... could stop pre-worrying and focus on what is here RIGHT NOW.

Quote:
The first question is really hard to answer. It is extremely hard to explain, it's just that there is a difference in cuddling with a man, or cuddling with a woman. My needs for a man come from most of the stuff I went through when I was young. For a long time I wished for a man to come protect me, and save me. I still have those same fears, and memories of what happened. Does that explain what she doesn't meet, or how she doesn't meet them.
Are you saying she cannot offer you "protection" or "save you" like a man could because she is not a man?

What is the threat you are facing right now?

Quote:
You are right about the need to talk about it outloud, there are times I can talk about it and joke about it, it's when I try to have a serious conversation with her, that things get awkward.
Get awkward for WHO? You or her or both?
  • Is she willing to talk to you about your bisexual feelings? Yes or no?
  • Is she ABLE to hear it and converse? Yes or no? If no, what blocks her? Can she explain?
  • Are YOU willing to talk to her about your bisexual feelings with her? Yes or no?
  • Are you ABLE to talk to her about your bisexual feelings with her? Yes or no? If no, what is blocking you?
Quote:
The part "being incomplete", was only because of the impotency.
Sounds like you are having a hard time with accepting impotency in the bigger health picture -- esp since you are facing a future with lower body paralysis. I am sorry. That is hard. No doubt about it.

But how you talk to yourself matters. If you spend a lot of time telling yourself you are "broken and incomplete" and so on... does this ADD to your life enjoyment or TAKE AWAY?

Quote:
You asked about 5-6 mos ago, It actually started about 2-3 years ago when the impotency came on. I have been blocking the thoughts for all this time, and things just built up to the point that I could not block them anymore, so I had to start thinking about it, trying to find a way to work something out so I did not have to do this. But, nothing I tried worked, with each failure, I needed this more. I know I do not have the option of a poly relationship, but I've tried talking to a couple of straight friends, utter disaster. Tried talking to some Bi and gay friends just disaster. So I said talk to some poly people they will be familiar with my situation, and would be open minded enough to help me work things out.
I do not understand that whole paragraph. Work WHAT things out? What is "it" -- you know what you are talking about, but other people cannot see into your mind to know. Could you fill in the gaps?


My problem with ______ actually started about 2-3 years ago when the impotency came on.

I have been blocking the thoughts of ______ for all this time.

______ just built up to the point that I could not block thoughts of ______ anymore. So I had to start thinking about _________.

Trying to find a way to work something out about the _______ so I did not have to do _________.

But, nothing I tried worked. With each failure, I needed ___________ more.

I know I do not have the option of a poly relationship, but I've tried talking to a couple of straight friends, utter disaster. Tried talking to some Bi and gay friends just disaster. So I said talk to some poly people they will be familiar with my situation, and would be open minded enough to help me work things out with ________.

I would like _______ (desired outcome) in the end. I need help getting there.


Could you be willing to clarify?

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-16-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2013, 09:43 PM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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Originally Posted by msbiman View Post
I thought that poly people would be open minded, after all is that not what poly people ask everyone else to do, have an open mind?
Assuming that because a person is polyamorous that they have a particular type of "open mindedness" when it comes to hearing about other peoples relationship experiences is baseless.

If I have misinterpreted your situation then clarify... no need to get pissed off and start flinging insults about closed mindedness simply because your situation is not crystal clear to a bunch of strangers online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msbiman View Post
I reminded her of when I lived the poly life, and suggested she think about the possibility of us adding another bi-man, to our relationships and form a triad. I wish I could talk her into just trying a triad
It came up a couple of times in your post. It is not a stretch to presume that you've got it on the brain and moving on from that idea would be helpful.
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Last edited by Marcus; 10-16-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2013, 04:10 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Could you perhaps not understand what we are hearing when you say you want your wife to be open to a triad? People here are answering as if it means what most everybody on this forum thinks it means - you date the guy, and your wife has to date the same guy. If she doesnt want to date, she wont want a triad. She might not mind if you want to date, but that doesn't mean she wants to date the same person you would. If she dates some other guy or lady, its not a it would be a V or an N where you date individually (and is most often the smartest thing to do) If you date and she doesn't, it'd be a mono-poly V.

Now if you actually do mean that you want her to agree whomever you're interested in regardless of her feelings on the matter, then I' have to agree with the comments people are making that you're taking issue with
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2013, 06:30 AM
london london is offline
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She doesn't want a poly relationship. Drop it. Choose either poly or her. That's all that's left.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2013, 06:47 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by msbiman View Post
You don't even know what it means to be strong. If you ever experienced one-third of what I have lived through you would die from stress. .... second I came here hoping to find someone that understood my situation, or would at least try to understand it, instead I get someone that only criticizes everything I said instead of trying to help.
You do realize you're making that first statement to a strange on the internet with absolutely no clue, right? I'm not going to sit here and play one-up with you, but you DO realize you might be talking to someone with major health issues, or three missing limbs, or a single mother to ten kids, or a survivor of years of sexual or physical abuse, or any number of other things, right? I'm just pointing out that you should not tell strangers on the internet what they do or do not know about strength when you know next to nothing about them.

More importantly, I'm not criticizing you. I'm telling you straight up, that if you want to be happy, the only way, ultimately, is to change your thinking and outlook. Do it or don't. You came here asking for a way to get what you want. As pointed out, your desires and your wife's are incompatible, from the sounds of it. You most likely are not going to get what you want--a triad with your wife and a joint boytoy, right? That leaves you with the choices of:
  • Be happy with just your wife.
  • Be happy with just a guy.
  • Be miserable.

Do as you will, it's no skin off my nose (although, as I said, you know nothing about my circumstances, and perhaps I don't actually HAVE a nose ) but happiness always, for all of us, ultimately depends on finding joy within, not on getting what we think we need.
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2013, 06:53 AM
london london is offline
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Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
You do realize you're making that first statement to a strange on the internet with absolutely no clue, right? I'm not going to sit here and play one-up with you, but you DO realize you might be talking to someone with major health issues, or three missing limbs, or a single mother to ten kids, or a survivor of years of sexual or physical abuse, or any number of other things, right? I'm just pointing out that you should not tell strangers on the internet what they do or do not know about strength when you know next to nothing about them.

More importantly, I'm not criticizing you. I'm telling you straight up, that if you want to be happy, the only way, ultimately, is to change your thinking and outlook. Do it or don't. You came here asking for a way to get what you want. As pointed out, your desires and your wife's are incompatible, from the sounds of it. You most likely are not going to get what you want--a triad with your wife and a joint boytoy, right? That leaves you with the choices of:
  • Be happy with just your wife.
  • Be happy with just a guy.
  • Be miserable.

Do as you will, it's no skin off my nose (although, as I said, you know nothing about my circumstances, and perhaps I don't actually HAVE a nose ) but happiness always, for all of us, ultimately depends on finding joy within, not on getting what we think we need.
The missing option here is to be happy with a man and a woman who are poly.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2013, 02:55 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
The missing option here is to be happy with a man and a woman who are poly.
Yes, true. I didn't include that because he says he wants to continue being with his wife, whom he loves. So finding a different woman who's happy to be in a triad would mean leaving someone he loves. In short, still not getting what he really wants. But yes, it's an option.
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2013, 03:58 PM
msbiman msbiman is offline
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Let me try this again, and try to correct my mistake of not being clear enough. I was stressed yesterday and well, and just screwed up.

Now, I came here after my efforts to find advice elsewhere failed, because no one else could understand the poly aspect of my problem. I was hoping that someone here would understand my need to have both my wife, and a man in my life. My objective is, since I now know that a triad is out of the question, what are my other options, and hopefully with the advice from here, I can choose what is the best option to present to my wife, ultimately the decision is hers, I will go along with whatever she wants.

I have went over GalaGirl's response, and picked out what I thought was the most important question's she had, and looking at other responses made.
I want to make this clear, when I suggested a triad to my wife, I promised if she was not interested I would not bring it up again. I have not, and will not bring it up to her again, I only bring it up here to inform you of what has happened. As far as I am concerned that idea does not even exist.

GalaGirl, made some suggestions about listing layers to work on, I have listed the time's she suggested, and will make that list in the next few days.
She made the observation that we are using words differently, I will do my best to be clear.

She asked "What needs does a man fulfill for you?"
To answer this I must go back to my childhood, at that time the thought of having a man represented being safe from abuse, security in that he would protect me, peace-no arguing/yelling/slamming doors, comfort, no fear, no hatred. This followed me through my entire life until I was about 18. Now when I get stressed out those old feelings always come back up. Then there are all the new feelings, depending on the situation, but I still crave him putting his arms around me an saying I will protect you, take care of all your problems, there is no need to be afraid, just lay your head on my chest and listen to my heart beat, I will not let anyone hurt you in any way, I will be your comforter.
Did I succeed in answering the question?

GalaGirl asked my definition of a "Real Man"
He would be strong both physically and emotionally, very masculine, a take charge person, (I hate to use this word, but I can't think of any other words) "butch",

She asked what was different between men and women for me, this is going to sound real sexist but I really don't mean it that way, I am for equal rights, this is just how I feel about my personal life, and why I dated the people I dated:
Women=Someone for me to take care of, someone to depend on me, someone I can comfort, be there for provide for
Men= Someone to take care of me, someone I can depend on, someone to comfort me, someone to provide for me, someone to keep me safe

There was some confusion about why I could not talk to my wife about my sexuality, and/or needs for a man.
The problem is that she is uncomfortable discussing those things. Even though I told her before we started dating about my sexuality and all about my past, and she promised she was ok with everything, there have been several times over the years that it has bothered her. If I spent too much time with a man she got jealous. ie...had a mechanic friend come over to the house to help me work on a car. We spent about four hours outside in plain site, she asked me if anything was going on between him and me since we spent so much time together. There have been several times that I have tried talking to her about something related to my sexuality or my past, and she would just get pissed off and not talk to me for a day or two. When I first started having problems with the impotency there was more than once she asked if I had decided to leave her for a man. Until I made her go with me to have my Dr. explain the problem.

GalaGirl asked about a "fully functional lover" and me being a bottom being related. Those are not related, I've always been a bottom. I just like being a bottom, I saw the men I dated as my protector, my husband, my caretaker, I was always submissive to him, so he could take care of me.
She also mentioned that I had said that we had done other things "instead" of intercourse, and she considered it to "be" intercourse, that makes perfect sense, I will phrase it differently in the future. Quote "To me "fully functional lover" means a lover who is able to share sexual activity with a partner to mutual happines".Your definition of a "fully functional lover" is great, I cover this in the next paragraph, but to summarize At this point I am completely unable to do anything of a sexual nature, so this phrase does not describe me.
You do not seem happy sharing sex activities with your wife. You seem to focus on the things you don't get to share anymore, so your focus in life is on LOSS a lot". I'm not sure what I said that sounded like I don't enjoy being with my wife, because I do, I love being with her, and making sure she is completely satisfied has thoroughly enjoyed herself. (keeping that pg wasn't easy). When it comes to her, I do focus on the things I used to love doing and can't anymore, I still want to do all those things, and I'm reminded every night that I can't do them anymore.

It also goes along with the next paragraph.
'
There was some confusion as I had talked about something in the last 5-6 months. I had stated that my need for a man had exploded in the last 5.6 months, she asked what happened in the last 5-6 months that caused my needs to explode. So wrote a paragraph about how it had actually been the last few years, that "it" was growing, I was not clear that "it" meant my need for a man (at this point I am working from memory as I did not write everything down so if I'm a little off what order everything was said please forgive me) anyway, To clarify and expand, about two years ago, one of my diseases has attacked my arms and hands, I lost most of the use of my legs many years ago, so now I am unable to do any of the things other than intercourse that we had been doing. So now we are unable to have any kind of sexual intimacy. We are still able to cuddle, but that is the only intimacy we can have. I told her several years ago, that if she wanted to have a sexual relationship on the side that was OK with me. As I said to begin with I have been in a couple of poly relationships, so it did not bother me any when she did. It did not last long, as he started trying to tell her what to do, that is not a good idea, I have her spoiled. When a man becomes impotent it does something to his psyche, it's like he loses part of himself, it hurts and it does a lot more. But, as bad as I felt about myself what hurt me the most is that she had to do without, I could no longer satisfy her needs, it is just not fair to her, she still has needs that I can not meet. That is why I suggested that she find some on the side. When that did not work, and then my need for a man grew to the point I could no longer keep it suppressed, I could no longer pretend that I did not need a man's comfort that is when I came up with the idea of the triad, I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. She said no, so that idea no longer exist, now I'm left trying to decide what to do next.

Anneintherain, you mentioned the possibility that I wanted her to agree no matter how she felt, I could not do that to her, it's just the opposite, I can't say no to her, if she wants it she gets it, if she says no, that idea no longer exist. You mentioned doing a V or a N, I had thought about that, but the truth is I could never be with anyone else unless she was there with me. I love her to much to ever be with anyone else, not even if she gave me permission, I could not do it, not unless she was with me. See my problem.

GalaGirl's last thing on her response was the question, "what is desired outcome" i don't know the answer to that, I am hoping that i can find the information I need to make a decision about the possibilities I have.
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2013, 05:22 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I hope you are less stressed today.

Thanks for adding more info.

I'll try to summarize how I see it....
So your wife is there for you to "take care of" and this includes sexually. And since you cannot share sex with her, you plan to "take care of" her needs by encouraging her to seek another lover? Then you can feel good that you are doing your "job" -- you took care of her. Maybe not in the way you prefer but you did take care of her.

She had another lover, but they broke up. Now it is just you and her? Are you stressy because now you are NOT taking care of her because the lover is out of the picture?

Quote:
But, as bad as I felt about myself what hurt me the most is that she had to do without, I could no longer satisfy her needs, it is just not fair to her, she still has needs that I can not meet.
How do you know she has sexual needs that are unmet? Does she say so? Is she unhappy with how things are right now?

Right now I see YOUR need to "take care of her" but what are her needs? Beyond the sexual ones?

In the meanwhile, you are unhappy in many ways over your illness(es) taking away from your physical health, mental health, emotional health. So you want someone to come take care of YOU.

For you that means a man. And for you, since your wife is not up for poly and you are not up for breaking up with her or cheating, that means coming to be ok with the fact that there will NOT be a man to protect you.

You will have to protect yourself and/or allow wife to help protect you.
Is that where it is all at? The main highlights of what's on your plate?

Quote:
GalaGirl's last thing on her response was the question, "what is desired outcome" i don't know the answer to that, I am hoping that i can find the information I need to make a decision about the possibilities I have.
Well, to me you seem to be here for choices:
  • Polyship with wife (grey because she said no, I just list it for completeness)
  • Break up with wife. Then have rship with a man -- in polyship format or not. (you don't want to break up)
  • Cheat on wife. Then have rship with a man -- in polyship format or not. (you don't want to cheat.)
  • Learn to protect yourself.
  • Learn to allow wife to help protect you.
  • Ask wife to work on her jealousy so you can have male (not lover) friends because you feel isolated/lonely
  • Something else I cannot think of.
  • A mix and match of the above.

I can only guess that one desired outcome you might want could be

"To be at peace with myself and in my marriage with my wife."
Is that not it? I could guess wrong. Is there anything else you would have as a desired outcome?

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-17-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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