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  #31  
Old 10-16-2013, 12:29 PM
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People have mentioned the issue at hand as being more of an issue if it is a repeated pattern of behavior. The OP used the example of her SO not being home when her SO said he would be, but also stated it was one issue among others where she felt disrespected. We are not privy to what the other instances are, but it definitely a appears that she feels there is a pattern.
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  #32  
Old 10-16-2013, 01:35 PM
london london is offline
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I don't live with my partner's either, so them turning up after they said they would is effectively them being late for our date. Of course, not desirable. However, these people live together, he is not saying when he will be back for their date, he is saying when he will return to his base. That's the difference.
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  #33  
Old 10-17-2013, 07:43 PM
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Murasaki Murasaki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
So, all good.
I’d rather argue some arbitrate point with you then deal with the whirlwind of emotions of breaking up with Kuroi. That being said it seem prudent to be clear that I am in a heightened emotional state, and that the perceived tone may not be what I actually feel for this topic, versus what I’m feeling for other things going on. Glad to know you are unfazed.
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
The interesting thing about your post and those before you is... no one seems to be irritated about the actual impact of someone being late. The only thing I've seen presented is simply "nuh uh, you said X and you did Y... therefore nuh uh!!"
Being delayed and injured is different from being intellectually "injured" by not perfectly abiding by an arbitrary and irrelevant rule.
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Originally Posted by Murasaki View Post
It's the giving me a time you'll be home by regardless of where you are going or what you'll be doing, and not sticking to the time YOU set. Basically if YOU set a time keep that time, or let me know it changed. I may have made plans but because you tell me you will be home, and I want to see you I will be home by that time too.
When you say I’ll be home at/by X time, you are making plans to meet me at my place at X time. Which is why I respond with, “See you then”. Could just as easily have said, See you at Y place at X time.

I make my plans around what I know is happening in my world. So when someone I want to spend time with gives me a time they will be available, and where they will be. I expect to be able to see them at their stated location around the time they stated. Not doing so is an inconvenience to me, delaying anything we might get to DO together by being excessively late. I'm not talking 15 mins, or even an hour.

These things are (like someone said elsewhere) not Black and white. They are situation dependant. At least they are for me. For one thing I have not previously, and I do not plan in the future to have an expected time of arrival at any destination on a date night/day. Some people like to PLAN, some like SPONTANEITY. While I am more of a planner, I understand, and enjoy spontaneity, and being spontaneous during/on a date is usually lots of fun. I would not want to reduce someone elses ability to have that kind of enjoyment.

However, I have been the one to say I will be home sometime tonight, and not gotten home till after the sun came up. It is stressful for the other person especially if they can not get in touch with you to find out if everything is actually ok. I got overly drunk, and slept it off at my friends house, I did not communicate this to the person waiting at home for my return. Kuroi was anxiously waiting for me. It wasn’t a HUGE deal, but it was something that upset my partner. I try not to needlessly upset my partners.

Everyone responds to these kinds of things differently (as Marcus is pointing out). It is each person’s responsibility to know and understand how this type of thing affects their partner, so they can communicate accordingly. In other words the underlying problem is one of communication, not so much the being late, but that the understand of what each person expects or wants in such a situation is lacking.

I think a part of the issue for the OP is that her partner followed being late, and asked about why, with an “It was my dates fault”. Um no I am responsible for me; my date is not responsible for me. What was likely a minor irritation became bigger due to an attempt to not accept a mistake (in communication) was made.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihq View Post
Some of the problems for me moving into this is that, for lack of a better word, the rules keep changing.

. . .

But, in all these changes of what we wanted they seemed to be changing to match the relationship he wants with this girl. Which is honestly, almost opposed to what I wanted, but I am still trying to work with it.
These here seem common in the beginnings of Poly. Being accepting of the changing rules, and both partners being willing to communicate what they are feeling, what they want, what they need to each other (and any other partners they have) is very important.

The "golden Nuggets" collection of thread (Sometimes call the master thread) is a great place to gain knowledge and insight. There are lots of external links with good advice on communication, negotiation, rules/guideline of good, healthy non-monogamous relationships. OP you and your partner should both read a lot of the materials found in those links. Then talk to each other about what you’ve learned, and what “rules” you want to change/adjust.

Be very clear on the types of communication you want/need/are comfortable with during date times. Take care that your thoughts for communication between you and your partner consider how their date feels, wants, needs as well. So if you feel its ok to send a few message while your partner is on a date, then be accepting of your partner receiving a few message from his date while out with you.
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #34  
Old 10-17-2013, 09:30 PM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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You make some valid points Murasaki, so I am inclined to discuss them - however, I am still of a mind to question the motivation of the disdain of the OP regarding "tardiness" or "but you said you'd X". A blanket obsession for people sticking to their word is a worldview error, in my opinion.

It is delusional to think that every person we encounter will behave to the letter of how they said they would behave and it is unreasonable to be rigid about dealing with variation.

In my opinion, there is still more going on in this particular case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murasaki View Post
Some people like to PLAN, some like SPONTANEITY. While I am more of a planner, I understand, and enjoy spontaneity, and being spontaneous during/on a date is usually lots of fun. I would not want to reduce someone elses ability to have that kind of enjoyment.
Agreed, it's also important to remember that this (like everything regarding human behavior) is a range. I consider myself more of a "planner", but I also find restriction to be needlessly limiting... I could explain the shades of distinction but I think it's clear enough to say that there is a wide range of personal preference possible here.

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Originally Posted by Murasaki View Post
It is each person’s responsibility to know and understand how this type of thing affects their partner, so they can communicate accordingly. In other words the underlying problem is one of communication, not so much the being late, but that the understand of what each person expects or wants in such a situation is lacking.
Wonderful!
If tardiness is a huge trigger for me I need to let people who might incur my wrath know that this is the case.

If my partner shows themselves to be someone who does not hold punctuality in high regard then I need to make the appropriate adjustments.
Either the OP hasn't expressed their view of "your word is your value, in all cases, without variation" or their partner doesn't hold the same standards to be true.
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  #35  
Old 10-18-2013, 01:43 AM
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Murasaki Murasaki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
You make some valid points Murasaki, so I am inclined to discuss them - however, I am still of a mind to question the motivation of the disdain of the OP regarding "tardiness" or "but you said you'd X". A blanket obsession for people sticking to their word is a worldview error, in my opinion.
I’m not so sure that this particular case is a “blanket obsession” to people sticking to their word. It seems more like a build up of issues being expressed and this happened to be the target. like the straw that started the argument.

The first complaint, issue was the constant change of rules to the husbands benefit, and the changes not including the needs/wants of the OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Wonderful!
If tardiness is a huge trigger for me I need to let people who might incur my wrath know that this is the case.

If my partner shows themselves to be someone who does not hold punctuality in high regard then I need to make the appropriate adjustments.
Either the OP hasn't expressed their view of "your word is your value, in all cases, without variation" or their partner doesn't hold the same standards to be true.
See we do speak the same language. I’m more on the planning side, Kuroi was always on the spontaneous side. We figured out long ago, don’t set a time. So if there is any question then a time is not set. But when/if that changes, Kuroi will let me know when. Again we don’t have this where date nights/days are concerned outside of responsibilities. Work/school nights have certain responsibilities, and vehicle needs that can not be set aside for a date, so contingency have to be planned/prepared for.

What works best is a more general time of day, this afternoon, this evening, sometime before you leave for work. If a time is set I plan to make myself available, and so did Kuroi. Actually Kuroi did the same thing to me yesterday. I got home from work Kuroi was out, no idea when kuroi would return. I made plans I had no time to be home outside childcare needs. Kuroi misses me by less than 10 mins, and was “expecting” me to be home and available to hang out when kuroi’s plans came to an end. I reminded him today when we talked about it. I can’t know if I’m not informed. I made plans with no time expectation, because none was given. Giving me a time is making it clear TO ME that you want me to be available around that time. so being overly late is an inconvenience (minor, or major depending on what I was planning-circumstantial) as I changed my plans to accommodate yours.

Again though this is something Kuroi and I worked out long ago.

<sleepy>
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #36  
Old 10-18-2013, 01:50 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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In case the OP does come back and read these replies in order to possibly glean some sound advice, again, I hope she realizes how to slice through the words that may present a facade. While there is no one right way to approach anything in life that deals with human behaviors and beliefs, do not forget that along that spectrum of variation, everyone must decide what are acceptable forms of communication.

I too, see this not as a problem with setting rules about how late you can be from a stated time to return , esp since the OP has already stated she has no rule. There are many different ways to communicate with your partners, and among that spectrum there is a varied level of truth that correlates as straight as a line could possibly be with the level deception

many people seem to miss the point, just as they did about what is actually bothering the OP, they fail to grasp what the problem is. For some people it is more convenient to stick to some obscure detail so that they can believe they are in the right and you are in the wrong, and so once there is any disagreement it becomes deleterious to attempt to communicate.

It's pointless because like behaviors there is also a spectrum of ways to communicate with your partners, but it is up to each of us to draw a line that designates what is acceptable. And you don't need permission to draw those lines as it is completely up to each person as an individual to decide the level of truth they prefer when communicating with their partners. Each person is free to change that level at any time, and said level can be different for specific individuals. If you have a partner who has trouble with being accountable, for the sake of your sanity you can demand no bullshit, and it is certainly OK to let them get away with zero accountability, so long as you are knowledgeable that is a choice that is only up to you to make.

If you can handle always being wrong on the pertinent points of any disagreement in order to accommodate a partner's need to be right -- even when then their point is irrelevant -- if you can stomach such styles of communicating that is entirely up to you as there is a spectrum of views that different people could choose to see this exchange. Some would see it as a false interpretation of the facts while another would see it as cutting through the bull crap.

And it's up to you

sometimes we just need to talk ourselves through it out loud, and it could be the case that there no problem, that it's all in your head. But it is up to you decide,

Do you just need to re-arrange your view on life?

Is there is no manipulation by him in your situation?

You don't have to agree with him or anyone else for that matter as you need no excuses for your preference

that's the beautiful thing about love, it's a two way street, your love not only needs to be offered but it also has to be accepted by the other party. Everyone in the world could offer you their decided view of love and present theirs to you, but it is only an offer, you are under no obligation to accept it

and the love that you choose to accept, if it is poison -- as some love is -- I wouldn't feel any obligation to accept it forever, as that decision is not up to the person who offers it. If love only presents itself as a one way street, and it is traveling in the opposite direction you wish to go, just walk perpendicular a few blocks up, usually you will find the road that travels your preferred direction

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 10-18-2013 at 02:01 AM.
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