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  #81  
Old 10-11-2013, 05:27 PM
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Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
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I'll be honest, not reading every reply. I'm going to respond to the premise, because I hear it over and over. I have heard people claim that the established relationship has too much power over the new one. I have seen WAY TOO MANY established relationships destroyed over the NRE of new ones and the power the new relationship wields.

So really I think it depends. I think people have to learn to have a balance and until they do, there's going to be problems with established relationships being in 'power' and for a lot of newbies there are going to be new relationships that have more power.

IDEALLY, I think people once they get a handle on things it goes both ways! I mean honestly, just because I am already in a relationship does not mean that the guidelines I have for new relationships is some sort of lording of power of the established relationship!

Sorry, I want to go slow, phone and internet chat, then a face to face, then a coffee date, I go slow for ME. It's what I am comfortable with. I don't intro you do my kids right away because it is what *I* am comfortable with. Single parent, or married, this is the way it is.

I so, so, so, so, so, so, so, SO get tired of people assuming that I DARE to have guidelines for dating is only because I have an established relationship. Single people have guidelines too! All relationships, lovers, children, family, will impact the others just on a basis of influencing me and therefore my time with you!

TLDR;; It's not about power, at least it shouldn't be. It's about what works for your life and if there are relationships already in your life, then yes they need to be considered! Stop ASSUMING it makes you less important and putting YOUR fears of that on others!
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  #82  
Old 10-11-2013, 07:34 PM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
This made me give some thought to what I consider to be a "responsibility". Paying my share of the bills or following through with an explicit agreement (take you to work on Tuesdays, pick up little Timmy from school on Fridays, etc). I can't think of what else would even come close to a responsibility when it comes to friends and lovers.

What would you consider a responsibility when it comes to the actions of Dude?
In addition to explicit agreements, a responsibility that my partner has is that he not neglect, take for granted or ignore me because he has a "shiny new". And it wouldn't matter if the shiny new is a new person or a new hobby...

In my case, since we are in a closed relationship (he has two other partners plus me and no interest in any more), it would be a new hobby or interest. And if that new hobby/interest took up so much of his time, that my minimum needs weren't being met on a regular, consistent basis, we'd have to discuss that.

I acknowledge that his time IS his to spend with who he wants, doing what he wants. But, if *our* lives don't intersect enough -for me- to feel like we're in a romantic, sexual relationship, then we would have to reevaluate the relationship.


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  #83  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:12 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
This made me give some thought to what I consider to be a "responsibility". Paying my share of the bills or following through with an explicit agreement (take you to work on Tuesdays, pick up little Timmy from school on Fridays, etc). I can't think of what else would even come close to a responsibility when it comes to friends and lovers.

What would you consider a responsibility when it comes to the actions of Dude?
THESE are exactly the types of responsibilities I have always been talking about. We each have responsibilities to the household (multiple children with ALL different places they need taken) and pets and maintenance to the house/cars, paying of bills, purchasing of groceries, cooking of meals (because no, we can't all cook our own meals when there are children and grandchildren who can't cook), clean up etc.
Our work schedules and school schedules are all different, so it takes some time to configure who IS available when.
Then there are dr appointments. If I have an appoint, I NEED someone else to take the kids. Which isn't as simple as me just going to the appointment because we also only have one vehicle for the family.

Anyone looking to date-is going to have to work with that. That's not couple privilege. That's being a responsible adult.
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  #84  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixtoria View Post


I so, so, so, so, so, so, so, SO get tired of people assuming that I DARE to have guidelines for dating is only because I have an established relationship. Single people have guidelines too! All relationships, lovers, children, family, will impact the others just on a basis of influencing me and therefore my time with you!

TLDR;; It's not about power, at least it shouldn't be. It's about what works for your life and if there are relationships already in your life, then yes they need to be considered! Stop ASSUMING it makes you less important and putting YOUR fears of that on others!
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  #85  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:17 PM
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Exactly Vix!

I had all of these same "rules" and "expectations" when I was single and dating. Because I had a child to consider. I had my daughter when I was 16. As an adult in the dating scene, it was NEVER EVER just about me.
I have other responsibilities to people who came first. That's just the way it is. If someone isn't ok with that-that's ok, they don't have to date me. But-I do not have the right to just fling my existing responsibilities to existing relationships out the window for a new partner. Period.
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  #86  
Old 10-11-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
THESE are exactly the types of responsibilities I have always been talking about. We each have responsibilities to the household (multiple children with ALL different places they need taken) and pets and maintenance to the house/cars, paying of bills, purchasing of groceries, cooking of meals (because no, we can't all cook our own meals when there are children and grandchildren who can't cook), clean up etc.
Our work schedules and school schedules are all different, so it takes some time to configure who IS available when.
Then there are dr appointments. If I have an appoint, I NEED someone else to take the kids. Which isn't as simple as me just going to the appointment because we also only have one vehicle for the family.

Anyone looking to date-is going to have to work with that. That's not couple privilege. That's being a responsible adult.
I am in agreement with you that all of these things you've listed would be considered responsibilities. These are things which are non-negotiable. They are non-negotiable because there is a very real and measurable input which is required in order for the machine to keep functioning. While the complexity of your particular machine [LR] is well outside of what I would want to be responsible for, I still concede that these things actually require maintenance regardless of circumstance - hence "responsibility"

Calling these things "couple privilege" would be strange to me. Though adopting the word "privilege" for this definition at all is pretty odd, since it's meaning is concise and not at all related to how it is being used.

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Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Dude DOES have responsibilities to me and MrS - as lover and friend (and roommmate). If those responsibilities are neglected (for whatever reason...not necessarily Lotus), then that would affect OUR relationships.
These are the things I was curious about, regarding "responsibilities" in an open poly relationship. I was wondering what these look like.

I can appreciate PG chiming in but the setup of a closed relationship isn't something I care to comment on at the moment.
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  #87  
Old 10-11-2013, 11:09 PM
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Marcus-sometimes you are just so darn agreeable. It's impossible to fight with someone who is so logical and reasonable. Sheesh.

(fyi-I wouldn't honestly advise most people take on such varied complicated responsibilities.)
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  #88  
Old 10-12-2013, 12:17 AM
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It's impossible to fight with someone who is so logical and reasonable. Sheesh.
HAHAH! Clearly you have missed a meeting or two as the popular vote is clearly leaning in the other direction

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(fyi-I wouldn't honestly advise most people take on such varied complicated responsibilities.)
Sure, but you probably wouldn't have wished it on yourself. It's just how everything turned out and you and your crew have adjusted to the challenges. While from my outside perspective it sounds pretty tough, you have no doubt found a balance in which you can all flourish (or you wouldn't stay together the way you have).
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  #89  
Old 10-12-2013, 01:57 AM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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kdt26417 said:
To summarize: I'm not in favor of any kind of "privilege." A poly unit is supposed to be a cooperating group, not a competing group. As soon as one person becomes a "threat" to another person, competing rules and injured feelings are on the way.
This isn't to say that there aren't reasonable expectations to be had about what will happen to any kids in the family, etc.

JaneQSmythe replied:
Quote:
"While I agree whole-heartedly, I'm kind of interested as to how far this extends ..."
kdt26417 says:
Oh I'm not really an expert on how far it extends. Actually, I think that's a sizeable part of what we're discussing or debating on this thread is, How much "right" does a couple have to place conditions on a new parter? Or, how much right does the new partner have to place conditions on the original couple?

Some things are obvious, like jobs, chores, kids, medical support, etc. ... Those are responsibilities and rarely considered negotiable.

Your gray area is stuff like, "How much responsibility to I have to spend (x) amount of time with my existing parter/s? For that matter, do I have a responsibility to spend (x) amount of time with my new partner?" I guess I think those are questions for everybody to work out cooperatively as a group.

It starts to sound more like privilege when it's a question of, "What special arrangements do I require so that I won't have to venture out of my emotional comfort zone? Since we, the original couple, are new to poly and fearful that we'll stop loving each other, how can we stop our new partner from inadvertently interfering with our sense of security?" Or, "How can I, the new partner, protect myself from the insecurity I feel when I observe signs of the longer history the original couple has together?" My "privilege alert lights" tend to go off when someone wants to set conditions that save them from having to examine themselves. Come on, if you're going to practice poly at all, you need to be willing to deal with some scary shit (such as jealousy or insecurity or what have you).

I can't authoritatively speculate on what kind of privilege is more common, couple privilege or "unicorn privilege." I guess I'm just guessing based on what I've read so far on Polyamory.com, Poly Percs, Franklin Veaux stuff, and other poly websites. The stories I hear the most often are the "couple privilege horror stories." But, I have also heard "newcomer privilege horror stories," and the bottom line is, it's not about which kind of privilege happens the most. It's about the fact that both kinds of privilege are wrong. Note that when I say "privilege," I kind of want to play it safe and limit the definition to the description I laid out in the paragraph above.

I'm too chicken (and unqualified) to try to lay out what gray areas constitute privilege, and which constitute responsibility. I suspect that everyone has to figure that out individually based on their own unique situation.
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  #90  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
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Sure, but you probably wouldn't have wished it on yourself. It's just how everything turned out and you and your crew have adjusted to the challenges. While from my outside perspective it sounds pretty tough, you have no doubt found a balance in which you can all flourish (or you wouldn't stay together the way you have).
Very true. I don't think any of us was intending something this complicated. I know we're all working towards less complicated. It already IS less complicated having gotten 3 kids out of the house. Not to mention minimizing the adults in the house to the three of us. There have been times there were excess of 12 people in the house. In fact, of the 13 years we've lived here, the last two years are the ONLY time we've had less than 9 people living here. 2 years where there are only 5 has been AWESOME!
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