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  #31  
Old 10-02-2013, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I never said there was anything wrong with starting a new thread on this topic - sure, sounds good to get various points of view on how relationships affect each other. However, it also sounded like the OP has been seeing so many argumentative threads here lately that he appeared to be saying that is all we have here or that this thread would be some sort of remedy for that, so I wondered if perhaps he hadn't found some of the wonderfully compassionate, funny, uplifting, and joyful threads (where there are no arguments) that already exist here.

We have a Golden Nuggets forum for a reason, and there's "nothing wrong" with directing people to it.
By the way, if I had not already found the thread you are refering to I would have started looking for it upon being informed that there is such a thread here.

For someone newer to this forum, the sticky title for that thread is "links to other threads worth reading" it is often called the Master Thread, or the Golden Nuggets thread. Haveing multiplu names for the same thing can be confusing.
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LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
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In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #32  
Old 10-02-2013, 09:44 PM
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I kinda realized I didn't answer the main question of your original post, to wit, who controls/decides the rules/conditions in a dating relationship? the established married couple, or the unmarried newcomer? There's other ways to word/detail that question, but I kind of read it that way in a general sense.

I don't doubt that friendly threads exist on the subject but I also know that "couple privelage" has been a topic of some contraversy too. Especially when it comes to your archtypical "unicorn hunters," an M/F hetero/bi couple fresh on the poly scene and eager to find the perfect, single, childless "hot bi babe" just for them, someone who will be in love with both of them equally, fall in love with no one else, provide lots of threesome sex, tend their kids and take out the trash when they want, and accept her role as a "dirty little secret" who won't be revealed to their family or friends or invited to their family functions.

It's true that this type of couple does appear often on Polyamory.com, and I know quite a few established members get tired/annoyed/frustrated with trying to reason with such couples on a repeated basis. It seems like a no-brainer that such "unicorn hunters" are taking couple privelage way too far (and naively assuming that no trouble will come of it).

If a married couple has kids, a long history together, and some insecurities as they venture into the polyamorous realm, and the women they meet is indeed single and not tied down in any way, then I guess there is cause for some couple privelage, within reason. But it's quite unfair if there's no flexibility toward the newcomer; if she has preferences or concerns, her voice should be heard and given some weight. I guess I'm saying that as a rule of thumb, a little couple privelage is okay but the newcomer should get a comparable amount of say in the rules/conditions of the relationship. Important to add is that no two situations are really alike, and how much say each party has depends on the specifics of each particular situation and the unique persons involved.

I think that answers the main question.
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  #33  
Old 10-02-2013, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
We have a Golden Nuggets forum for a reason, and there's "nothing wrong" with directing people to it.
You're right Nyc-and I'm sorry if I came off pissy. It wasn't my intent at all. More curious-but I didn't take time to really fully express my question (at all). Lazy lazy-I think I may need a little smacking around.

It is an awesome spot to look for info.
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  #34  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:17 AM
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I have been wanting to answer this, and since I have another hour left in this layover, I can finally respond.

Quote:
Does a relationship have inherent privileges, rights, responsibilities, and expectations? Or do those grow as the relationship grows?
Absolutely to both.

Quote:
Does starting a new relationship reduce, or remove the privileges, rights, responsibilities, and expectations of the longer term relationship(s)?
Not at all. I would still expected to do the same things I was doing before the new relationship started. I cannot shirk responsibilities. The rights would increase for all involved. Privileges are often subjective, so that might be relationship specific.

Quote:
Does the newest relationship have the “right” to say hey I want this, and telling me “not now” is couple privilege?
Saying "not now" is not couple's privilege, IMO. I view it like this. If I started dating someone, and right off the bat, they wanted an overnight or two per week starting, that would impact everyone in my household from the nanny to my DH to my children. Our nanny does not work nights unless asked in advance. If the overnight coincided with his nights out, that means our nanny would have to work after hours and change her plans, or we would have to find other care. In this case "not now" could be valid because one person's wants would never trump the needs of every member of our family. We would have to work out a way to keep things running efficiently, so that want/request might get put on hold until we can see if there is a way to do it.

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Or is it acceptable for the longer-term relationship to stick to their expectations of each other, and allow their relationship to organically grow to include the newest relationship at a rate that works for the longer-term “couple”?
No matter what, we are sticking to the expectations we have for one another. They, too, would likely increase.

Everyone does it differently. The old me would have done it that way. The new me? Hmm. Something different. The new relationship would never be given the option to grow towards inclusion. No integration needed. It would always be a separate entity.

Quote:
Or does the newer relationship get to dictate the speed at which the longer-term dyad must change to accommodate it?
Never. Personally, we have a speed that is working well for us and our children. They would be the new person, and they would have to strike a balance between fitting in where the availability is and respecting what was established before they were in the picture without trying to change it to benefit themselves. The catch-22 would be a change would have to benefit everyone while not take anything away from anyone else.

Quote:
When in a relationship, and starting a new relationship which one is more affected?
Everything affects a relationship. New babies, new jobs, deaths, medical emergencies, etc, so a new relationship would affect a pre-existing one. For example, I know that every day DH and I are going to have a minimum of two hours of private QT. We talk from 6-7 AM like clockwork. No children screaming mum, mummy, mumma, mumsy, or whatever they call me. No cell phones. No ESPN. Just us. If I were to date again and x person wanted a breakfast date before I take the little ones to school, it stands to reason, we might lose that at least once or more per week. We have mini breakfast dates almost every day. I/we drop the little ones off at school and the nursery and meet for coffee and croissants before we start our respective days. What if the noob wanted to treat me to breakfast? More time lost and a change just that quick from the way we had been doing it for months. I am sure it would affect our relationship if the amount of QT we had was cut or drastically reduced. The new one is going to impact the old one and vice versa.

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Which one should be more considerate of the other?
They have to be considerate of one another. Respect is integral.

Quote:
Are there reasons why one relationship might have different rules, and responsibilities than another?
Yes. I have children, a household to help maintain, finances to manage, charity work to do, cupcakes to bake, church services to attend with my daughter, and all the ins and outs of my day to day to life. Any other relationship would be the opposite. No shared finances, parenting, household, or anything that would require a high level of entanglement.

Quote:
What rules, privileges, responsibilities, and expectations do you have in your various relationships and did those relationship start with those roles? or did they grow to include them, or did you have a relationship that had to adjust itself to accommodate changes to the roles it had?
This is where it got muddled for me before. My responsibilities after my children doubled. We should have meshed as a family, and THEN, my relationship with my ex should have taken after the mould we had established. The changes were simultaneous and caused friction and a fire down the line.

I would do it differently, if I chose to date again. It would be family privilege and my privilege. DH does not want our children around poly, so a would-be partner would never be around my children. Additionally, that would mean no overnight stints at our home or vice versa. DH has absolutely refused to be outed as being part of a poly marriage. Job security is part of it, but the biggest part is the affects of being out hit him harder than it did for the two poly people in the V. The person would automatically be somewhere between secondary and tertiary and a secret. I would never in this lifetime agree to have two co-primary relationships. Dear heaven, if there is a God and I ever suggest this, slap me silly. They would have to fit the mould of my life and be okay with seeing me at best once a week. My marriage would come first. I have touched my roots, and I do believe our marriage has to be first because our relationship will be the first relationship my children see day in and day out. It needs to be healthy, and we have to show them what a healthy partnership resembles--even if they go on to be poly.

My hard line and number 1 rule would be to never take time away from my children or disrupt their lives and routines. I have missed so much time with my babies, and it is time I will never be able to get back. My oldest has certain expectations now. She sees me as reliable, and I would hate to shatter that. I would want to continue to be there for recitals, mummy-n-me time, dance classes, parent association meetings, church with my oldest once a month, parent time every morning, breakfast, dinner, etc. I just feel like a second relationship would automatically change that. After a four month hiatus, I am returning to work and imposing strict requirements on myself that I will adhere to because I want to continue to be there for my children.

I know this sounds rigid and unfair to the person, but I would have to spell it out, so that there would be no chance of x person feeling lead on. The great news is that I lead a very full life, and I KNOW I do not have the time, availability, or slightest interest in a relationship, so I never have to say this to a person.
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  #35  
Old 10-03-2013, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
I kinda realized I didn't answer the main question of your original post, to wit, who controls/decides the rules/conditions in a dating relationship? the established married couple, or the unmarried newcomer? There's other ways to word/detail that question, but I kind of read it that way in a general sense.
Yes you can view my questions this way. However if I remember right you are one arm of a V with a married?

So consider the questions from that perspective. Do you live with them? do you have shared monetary responsibilities? What expectation do you and your current partner(s) have with you?

In my case I “expect” Kuroi to make coffee for me before i leave for work. This has been the norm for us for 9+ years.
In turn Kuroi expects the same of me.
Momoiroi expect me to drop off, and pick up from school.
These things aren’t “needs” per say, but a change in routine would have to be made should I (or Kuroi) start dating.

Some changes would be larger than others, and I would not spring those on my family without warning. But then I’m also not going to date someone who doesn’ understand that from the beginning. Unlike Kuroi I take a long time to form attachments. If I meet you online and we chat and I like you I can crush on you from a distance for months while we discuss what we are looking for in life, and relationship, and what we can offer each other. All that would come out before the first Face to face meeting.

I know that for me adjustment in my daily routine would have to be made to accommodate someone elses needs/wants/desires. I’m totally willing to do that, BUT for the sake of compassion for my family members who have grown accustomed to certain things I would need to make these changes slowly. This is something that I believe poly person who live alone would have less of. If they do not “live” with someone else for a large part of their time then those kinds of expectations would be less. And the changes they would make in their life to accommodate the wants/needs/desire of someone else would not be felt as strongly by their other partners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
I don't doubt that friendly threads exist on the subject but I also know that "couple privelage" has been a topic of some contraversy too. Especially when it comes to your archtypical "unicorn hunters," an M/F hetero/bi couple fresh on the poly scene and eager to find the perfect, single, childless "hot bi babe" just for them, someone who will be in love with both of them equally, fall in love with no one else, provide lots of threesome sex, tend their kids and take out the trash when they want, and accept her role as a "dirty little secret" who won't be revealed to their family or friends or invited to their family functions.

It's true that this type of couple does appear often on Polyamory.com, and I know quite a few established members get tired/annoyed/frustrated with trying to reason with such couples on a repeated basis. It seems like a no-brainer that such "unicorn hunters" are taking couple privelage way too far (and naively assuming that no trouble will come of it).
I’d have to comb through the threads on couple privilege I don’t recall anything positive, but I can think of some positives.

I’ll use a hypothetical example between myself and Kuroi as well as Momoiroi (this has not happened, but it could in the future)

My non-live in SO and I are planning a romantic weekend mini vacation. It’s slightly expensive. I talk to both my partner(s) at home.
With Momoiroi I want to find out how Momoiroi feels about my extended absence where Momoiroi is not invited. What will Momoiroi need from me to reduce anxiety/stress? Goodnight/goodmorning calls? Skype video once a day? Some small trinket from where I’ll be staying? Are these things I can promise Momoiroi, or things I will attempt, but not promise?

Kuroi I’ll ask cover the full electric bill so that I can have some extra cash this month, and I’ll make sure Kuroi is ok with taking on the extra child care, home care responsibilities while I am away. I will also ask what Kuroi needs from me to reduce Kuroi’s possibly anxiety/stress if Kuroi is concerned that this might cause stress. (This scenario is unlikely what would be more likely is that I’d let Kuroi know what my partner and I are planning, then Kuroi may ask if I need any help.)

This ability to ask for a change in my finances for the month is a perk, or part of “couple privilege”. This comes with responsibilities, and expectations. Kuroi would also expect the ability to ask for similar things from me. Still these requests/expectations of each other affect all my relationships.

What would not happen is that same situation happening with my partner who I do not have such shared financing. Would you cover my part of the electric bill so Kuroi and I can go have a romantic weekend? And while we are gone would you take care of my home, pets, and child? (sounds like the expectations of a Unicorn hunting couple to me)
Perhaps you would be agreeable to that, but I would not ask that of someone whom I’m not as entangled with. It doesn’t feel right to me to impose in that way. I would however check with you (before going on such a trip) and find out what you need from me to reduce the possibility of anxiety/stress this might cause you.

On the flip side of that. My SO whom I do not live with, and do not share financial responsibility with might be uncomfortable asking for financial help. I'm one of those types, no matter how close I am to a friend or family member I find it difficult to ask for help (even from Kuroi). Kuroi is more likely to offer help, then give it because I asked, and that's because I don't ask. However I offer financial help if I knew it was wanted, and would not offend my partner.
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #36  
Old 10-03-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
I have been wanting to answer this, and since I have another hour left in this layover, I can finally respond.
I’m gald you got to answer my questions, I’m about halfway through your blog, and I know you have a family life that your poly needs to be structured around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Saying "not now" is not couple's privilege, IMO. I view it like this. If I started dating someone, and right off the bat, they wanted an overnight or two per week starting, that would impact everyone in my household from the nanny to my DH to my children. Our nanny does not work nights unless asked in advance. If the overnight coincided with his nights out, that means our nanny would have to work after hours and change her plans, or we would have to find other care. In this case "not now" could be valid because one person's wants would never trump the needs of every member of our family. We would have to work out a way to keep things running efficiently, so that want/request might get put on hold until we can see if there is a way to do it.
I get this completely. To me saying not now is not say no never, and leaves room for discussion.


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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
No matter what, we are sticking to the expectations we have for one another. They, too, would likely increase.
I believe I’d have to let go of some expectations like in the example I post for kdt26417
If I’m spending the night at my SO’s place then I can’t make Kuroi coffee, and I won’t be taking Momoiroi to school.
But I’d gain new expectations. Maybe my SO would want me to bring breakfast to bed? or we’d do other special things for each other as our tokens of appreciation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Everyone does it differently. The old me would have done it that way. The new me? Hmm. Something different. The new relationship would never be given the option to grow towards inclusion. No integration needed. It would always be a separate entity.
I understand why you say this, and I wish your poly had not gone in that way. What you wanted and were shooting for could have been beautiful.
I would want inclusion if that were possible with my Live in SO, Momoiroi, and my SO. But some of my poly interests would not work that way.

LOL I would enjoy being the “third” to a couple. But I’m no Unicorn, I come as I am and will not cut out my family for an SO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Never. Personally, we have a speed that is working well for us and our children. They would be the new person, and they would have to strike a balance between fitting in where the availability is and respecting what was established before they were in the picture without trying to change it to benefit themselves. The catch-22 would be a change would have to benefit everyone while not take anything away from anyone else.
This is where we made our biggest mistake. We should have moved at the speed of the slower person. Should have could have would have. *sigh* can’t change the past, can only learn and grow from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Everything affects a relationship. New babies, new jobs, deaths, medical emergencies, etc, so a new relationship would affect a pre-existing one.
. . .
The new one is going to impact the old one and vice versa.
That is how I feel too, I have just felt that I am reading a different sentiment in the relationship corner. Makes me sad when people pick apart someones life the small story they share here. I can see both side of the equation. Definitely communicate with both partners make sure everyone is on the same page, and is ok with the pace of things. Doing so should make life easier for the hinge person, and keep everyone at a place where they can feel compersion versus the less than yummy emotions we all have to deal with. Not that those don’t have there place, but why court them when we don’t have too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
DH does not want our children around poly, so a would-be partner would never be around my children. Additionally, that would mean no overnight stints at our home or vice versa. DH has absolutely refused to be outed as being part of a poly marriage. Job security is part of it, but the biggest part is the affects of being out hit him harder than it did for the two poly people in the V. The person would automatically be somewhere between secondary and tertiary and a secret.
That must be hard for you when contemplating dating again. There are a lot of inherent problems with your SO not being acknowledged as such. But it is also very understandable. Job security is a big deal, so is the possibility of losing your children due to complaints to Child Protective Services (CPS). Poly is not an accepted family format and would likely have a negative impact if someone made a claim against you and your family.

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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
My hard line and number 1 rule would be to never take time away from my children or disrupt their lives and routines. I have missed so much time with my babies, and it is time I will never be able to get back. My oldest has certain expectations now. She sees me as reliable, and I would hate to shatter that. I would want to continue to be there for recitals, mummy-n-me time, dance classes, parent association meetings, church with my oldest once a month, parent time every morning, breakfast, dinner, etc.
And this right here is why Momoiroi is my actual Primary in the hierarchy sense.
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #37  
Old 10-03-2013, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Re (from Murasaki):


I guess I'm in luck for this particular thread since I have a poly-fi relationship, and it has been a trio from the start. I guess I did have a "phase of exploration" where I attempted to get somewhere on a couple of dating sites, but that all basically fizzled.

The basic deal in my V is that there's no sex outside the V, and if we ever become an N or M or whatever, it will be a gradual process, and depend on all four (five, etc.) of us getting along well together. These are rules that the three of us agreed to right from the start. Since then it has kind of been clarified that any "outside dating" any of us does, the new person must be introduced to the whole V right away, emails are to be openly shared with the whole V, and everyone must be kept updated on how the dating is going.

All of these rules/agreements were basically negotiated between all three of us from the start, and though I am the unmarried member of the V and the other two persons in it are married to each other, they don't have anything I'd call "couple privelage" per se. We consider all three of us to be "primary partners," and my two married companions have worked hard through the years to make me feel like a co-primary with them. So it has been, right from the beginning.

On the other hand, "the beginning" was in 2006: that's when the three of us decided to join forces as a poly unit. Before that, we had been friends, going back about as far as 1995. So it's not like we were just barely starting to date and get to know each other. We already had a strong base of trust and commitment towards each other.

Our poly life together has been turbulent at times and we've had to learn some things the hard way, but what's important is that we always learned and grew together. There was never a dynamic of two (married) people telling the third (unmarried) person how it was going to be -- nor the other way around. We have always tried to make all our major decisions together as a three-person unit.

Doh, I read this at work, and kind skipped over it when making my response. Sorry about that.
This sounds like you are phrasing your answer towards unicorn hunters. That’s not necessary. Although that is where a lot of very valid concerns surrounding couple privilege spring from.

Actually you might consider the sharing of emails with your V as a form of couple privilege. (or triad privilege? ). It’s a decision made without the input of the new person, and from your wording it sounds like they may not get to negotiate for changing this requirement. Say I was willing to consider dating someone in your V. I’d be asking a lot of questions in an attempt to find out why this particular requirement is there, and if the ability to have a private chat online exists (sms, or IM/PM).
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Me - Murasaki - Bi/pan
LTR SO - Kuroi - Straight (broken up-not sure what we are now)
Child of Murasaki & Kuroi - Momoiroi

In LTR of 20 years, married for 13 years to Kuroi
Didn't realize we had a poly type relationship in High school. Exploring poly again now that our Child is older.
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  #38  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:21 PM
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What exactly are you referring to here? What do you think I have said that invalidates the needs of a possibly date?
"Not every person I date will actually turn out to be a new partner for me. I do however want the option for that new person to turn into more than just a friend “getting to know you “ date. So I will talk with my partner(s) about how I feel, and see how they feel, and what may need to be negotiated. I have responsibilities to the people who are already apart of my partnership, I do not have the same responsibilities to someone I’m just now getting to know. For me once I have discussed the possibility of starting a new partner/love connection with someone new (In my case this happens BEFORE I start looking to date) with my current partners, then I would need to talk to my new potential and see what their expectations are, and if what I have available will fit within their expectations, or if more negotiation needs to be made."

This pretty much says to me that when you are thinking about a dating a person, like you have them in mind as a potential date, you discuss it with your partner(s). You don't go the person and see what they need from a partner and then see if you can offer them that, you discuss their rhetorical needs with your partner.

Quote:
Anyone I accept a date invite from, or ask out on a date will know that I am poly, married with a kid. Depending on where, and how we met they will likely also know quite a few other important things about me and my lifestyle as well.
Yes, it's good to know someone's existing obligations from the outset. For example, people I date probably (or really should) realise that booking a surprise getaway more than likely is going to be more stress than it's really worth because of my parenting duties.

Quote:
Perhaps you are saying that the needs of my SO means that my attention will not be on our date? Like spending our time together texting my partners, kids, ect?
No, that's not what I think. What I think is likely is that you don't consider the needs of new and/or potential partners which I find illogical because you are considering a relationship with them and not anyone else.

Quote:
What do you NEED for a first date to have a chance to be successful?
I need to meet the person alone so we can have time together to assess our compatibility. I need for our relationship to be able to progress how we want it to, free from the influence and control of anyone else. That means if we meet up and decide to have sex that day, we can, without having to ask permission from a spouse. Let me give you an example, say I meet a guy online, Steve, and Steve has a wife, Daisy. Daisy, to feel comfortable, needs Steve to start his dates at home where she can meet them first. This is out of my comfort zone, I am happy to adapt my usual way of doing things by agreeing to spend time with his wife and perhaps family once we know we want to see more of one another but meeting them before I have even met Steve properly is just not going to happen. Steve encourages people to meet Daisy as she requests because he wants to "accommodate her needs" but at the same time, Steve and I have hit it off and he wants to see if we have any future. Would accommodating my needs when on a date with him be totally unreasonable? Should he pass up what we could have because his wife has needs that affect the way he can interact with other people he is considering having relations with? Should she, simply because she is his wife, get to say how we date? I mean, yes, Steve has a responsibility to maintain his existing relationships whilst he develops new ones, but does that mean he has to dismiss the perfectly reasonable wishes the person he is considering as a partner has when they date? Does that mean that I should go out of my comfort zone because of what his wife requires? No, I say.

Quote:
Your needs for a first date to be successful may not match what I need for a first date to be successful. That is really not the question here though. The question is how will your First date, and the potential you see with this person affect your network?
See, right now, I have one partner. I know what he needs. I know what I need to do to maintain that relationship. I know what sort of circumstances/schedule/lifestyle someone else could have which would make it near impossible for me to maintain/develop both relationships. I wouldn't initiate dating or progress a relationship with someone with a lifestyle that I knew would make it impossible to continue an existing relationship very easily. It would have to be because I thought that existing relationship had a bleak future. The important thing when I am meeting new people should be what I need to develop a relationship and what that potential person needs to develop a relationship, not what our other partner(s) need(s) from our other relationships.

Quote:
I do not take the opinions of people I have no relationship with as anything all that important to me.
I'll ask you a question here: at what point during the dating/relationship process do you start to consider the opinions of the person you are interacting with as "important"?

Quote:
When it comes to meeting someone, for a date, social gathering. My own opinion/decision comes first. As someone else pointed out you are your own primary.
Good. You should think about you and the person you are interacting with.

Quote:
This feels like an assumption being made. I suppose it was wishful thinking on my part to believe that my polystyle would not be called into question versus the topic actually getting discussed.
This thread is about whether taking on new obligations means shirking your old ones, because some people on here apparently have suggested that it does mean that. There was also a strong insinuation that if a secondary style partner, potential or otherwise, suggests that any "rule" that the existing couple has exercises couple's privilege by dismissing their needs, wishes and desires, they are of the opinion that the secondary partner is attempting to encourage their paramour to break the expectations and boundaries of the existing relationship to accommodate their needs. In reality, they are pointing out a fact and are probably also stating that it is incompatible with what they want out of the relationship. There is absolutely nothing wrong with couple's privilege in ethical non monogamy, until you start to deny it's presence.

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I use the term primary to mean simply any SO with whom I have a lot of obligations and shared responsibilities.
So do I. I do not use primary to mean the one who comes first, I mean "the person/people I share the most practical entanglement with.

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This makes me think that you are LOOKING for an argument. I clearly stated that these discussion happen BEFORE I start looking to date. At least between myself and my romantic partners. I’ll stick to offering the benefit of the doubt, and decide to believe that you skipped over that part unintentionally, or that it got lost in all the text around it.
No, I saw what you said, but other stuff you have said, including the passive aggressive tone of the OP suggests otherwise.

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When I decide that I am ready to date again I will talk to Momoiroi about it. I will ask how Momoiroi feels about, and discuss how my dating other people may affect my relationship, role, rules, responsibilities, and expectation with Momoiroi. For instance, before I put my profile back up on OKC I would let Momoiroi know I’m feeling ready to start dating again. Momoiroi and I would then discuss how this may affect our relationship short term, and long term. Including things like my not driving Momoiroi to School every morning, or picking up every afternoon. I would not spring these changes on Momoiroi without discussing it first.
This is your kid right? I don't confuse or compare the roles or relationships of a romantic partner to that of a parent so I cannot comment on this.

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Yes Momoiroi comes first, and any new person I invite into my life has to deal with that. If they can not, that is their problem. I see it as them losing out, nothing more than that.
I think all decent parents think similarly. My parenting duties are one of my responsibilities.

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Again this feels like you are looking for an argument. Where have I said that there are “rules and agreements in the existing relationship that define how and when one interacts with potential partners”?
There are many abrupt changes that can happen in a posters life that can (and often are) a shock to that persons system.

This suggests to me that you think it would be okay for a wife, for example, to want to slow/alter her husband's other relationship because she is having trouble dealing with it and it not be a sign of their marriage taking precedence over relationships that haven't existed for as long . I wholeheartedly disagree with that notion.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:21 PM
london london is offline
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What I have been looking for with this thread is an explanation on how your relationship(s) affect each other. Your first post or two were in line with the point of this thread, now you are questioning my poly style, and do not have the information to lodge judgements and accusations on me.
What I have pointed out in this thread is that:
* taking on new obligations does not mean you need to shirk your old ones
* you don't need to bring your dates home to be an active part of your family and meet your responsibilities to them
* inherently prioritising the needs of your existing partners over the needs of new and/or potential partners is exercising couple privilege.

If this makes you feel as if I am questioning your style of polyamory, there is little I can do about that. I simply responded to what you posed to me with some elaboration to answer likely queries to my statements.

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I am not a solo poly person, but from what I have seen/read on these forums solo poly people have very few major responsibilities with their partners. There’s usually no shared finances, no shared housing, and no co-parenting with (romantic) partners (ex-spouse aside). You do not have to meet my other partners, family, kids, friend for my relationship with you to affect my relationship(s) with them. Adding new relationships to my life affects my financial status, and the amount of time I have available to spend with the people already apart of my everyday life. This will affect poeple whom I have financial, child care, and home care responsibilities with more then people whom I do not have these responsibilities with.
What I am saying is that even if you do not currently have those shared entanglements with someone, you still have to consider the needs of your potential partner's partner(s). This means that even though I would prefer not to get super entwined with Daisy (remember Daisy and Steve?), I have to consider that Steve has to maintain a relationship with Daisy and Daisy needs interaction with her metamours. Solo poly people often see more than one person too: right now, I guess I am sort of "solo poly", I have a partner who I do not share primary style entanglements with, however, if I meet someone else, it will impact on the time I have to spend with him depending on their schedule. Money is the same: I pay for dates too. I also have bills and other financial obligations. Not having a partner that I live does not mean that I do not have to be as accommodating as any other poly person and also be accommodated for too.

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If your response continue saying that my primary partner (my child) is controlling my other relationship(s) and is therefore manipulative; it is very unlikely that I will respond directly to you again. As continuing that line of conversation shows our incompatibility, and that there is a disconnect between us.
No, you brought up your child. I was talking about romantic relationships, again, I do not confuse or compare the two. And yes, if, within a non monogamous relationship, my partner and I reach an agreement about our boundaries and expectations and then when I meet someone, these expectations and boundaries constantly shift negatively impacting on our ability to develop a romantic and/or sexual relationship, I'd begin to think they were being manipulative about obstructing my other relationships.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:35 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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We already lived together. So some things (like who makes the coffee) were established between the three of us before we transitioned to poly.

But-times for sex altered some things.

Honestly, we worked hard to create little disruption for any of the family with our transition. There will always be some, but slow progression seems to work "naturally" like growing up. Whereas sudden changes tend to create shock and upset.

As for going as slow as the slowest person; we did many things that way. Working with that went well except for one area. There was a point where it was necessary to really dig in an say "NO MORE. You aren't going to actively punish us for mistakes made prior to knowing poly any more."
But areas like "comfort with pda" honestly resolved themselves to a great degree.
Once the anger and hurt from being lied to and cheated on was truly dealt with-and the punishment issue was addressed; he just moved right past the rest for the most part without any pressure at all.

Now-it's notable that GG and I aren't highly PDA people in the first place. While Maca doesn't want to see/here us having sex, GG doesn't want to be seen/heard either. So we don't do those things in front of Maca (or anyone else). But we share kisses, hugs, hand holding, cuddling on the couch.

We don't do a lot of "date nights" because GG's work schedule makes it damn near impossible. So most of our "dates" are during the day-which just so happens to coincide with when Maca is working. It's not uncommon or us to pop into his work with lunch or some such during the day (when he's working locally) during something like that.
It's also VERY VERY common that we have kids in tow.
The bottomline is that my kids are my primary and I pretty much have one or another of them with me 24/7. The only time they aren't with me is during class. They ride to town with me and GG on my school days. They all go to breakfast and then the libarary. One of those days we go home and GG goes to work after. The other day they stay with me (because I have other out of class responsibilities to other students) and GG goes to work. Then we catch a ride with my sister, mom or brother.

Evenings I spend with the kids for sure. When Maca is home, we do things with him. Since he's been gone most of the time since May, we are on our own. We go to the gym, swimming, take walks, go to the park, watch movies and do homework.

If any of us (adults) was considering dating someone new-they would have to find their place in this framework. The person who was dating them would have to help.
Now-for example, if one of the guys got a girlfriend; if she was a good fit, she would have an open invite to go do whatever with the kids and I. That's how it was with Maca's ex girlfriend. It's quite possible for a new date to slip right into the family dynamic with their own family as well.
There are only two workout centers in our town. The one we go to is the most popular because it has a pool-nicer than any of the high school pools around here. Which increases the likelihood of another family also having a membership there.
There's only a couple coffee shops and only one "big park". These are things another persons family would be likely to have in common already-so it wouldn't be "giving up their family time to be with ours". It would be integrating the families times together. This sort of integration reduces the amount of time given up to be with another. Because it drops much of hte needed "alone time" to sex/bed times; but still allows for daily interaction with all of the meaningful people.

SOME people would hate that-but that would be the norm for our family. So if a new person couldn't handle that-they would be limited to time avaiable apart-and that is in short supply.
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