Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-25-2013, 02:33 PM
london london is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK - land of the free
Posts: 1,635
Default

I remember one woman, an American woman, whose OB/GYN said that giving birth without an epidural would stress the baby out because the mum can feel the pain or something and it makes her stressed so the baby gets stressed. There was also an anonymous American midwife who had a blog where she would "out" all the practices that the OB/GYNs do, like this "stress to section" that they do to first time mums. They give them large doses of oxytoxics so they hyperstimulate and they can crack on with the section rather than sit around hand holding while she goes through a three day induction.

I'll say again, I have seen abysmal care given by doctors and midwives in my time. Shocking. But I know that is is abysmal because we are trained to be evidence based and I can see that the care that woman was given, wasn't.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-25-2013, 02:56 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepygirl View Post
I don't know that what she said was a specific poke at you, WH. You and Ali also have a valid point. Not everyone's hospital experiences here have been awful. There are good ones too.
I did not take her post as aimed at me. And that was exactly my point: there are good experiences in the States and bad; good experiences in the UK (or any other country) and bad. So let's stop the bashing.

The fact is, experts in any field will have different opinions about what is proper. I see it all the time in my field, where people will nearly come to blows over the smallest details of how to accomplish a task, when the fact is, half the experts are doing it one way, half are doing it the other, and they're all producing results.

Throwing around terms like 'brain washed' and making general statements that 'American women are brainwashed' is obnoxious, and does not move the conversation forward. This has nothing to do with 'mommy wars' or anyone needing to 'breathe,' but simply a matter of courtesy and sticking to facts.

(Just for arguments' sake...what would an American be called who posted here that 'English women are brainwashed?' Certainly someone would back me up and say I had a point! )
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-25-2013, 02:59 PM
sleepygirl sleepygirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
There was also an anonymous American midwife who had a blog where she would "out" all the practices that the OB/GYNs do, like this "stress to section" that they do to first time mums. They give them large doses of oxytoxics so they hyperstimulate and they can crack on with the section rather than sit around hand holding while she goes through a three day induction.
My first doula-ish experience was for a friend. It wasn't an official, paid service. She just needed someone and I was the only one she knew who knew anything about birth. I spent hours talking to her, educating her, just being with her and supportive. She didn't call me when she first went into labor, however. She'd been at the hospital for hours by the time her husband called, panicking. The doc had unexpectedly stripped her waters during her regular appt that day, and sent her into labor. By the time I got there, her pitocin levels (that she didn't need) were ridiculous (a drip set to 17 mU!!), which, of course, caused her to cave on pain meds, which she hadn't wanted to do. At 6 hours into labor, her body was in chaos. Her muscles were exhausted, her body pushed beyond its natural endurance, due to the pit. Her brain was totally foggy, disconnected, almost asleep. She was shutting down. It was scary. They had forced a situation where they had to take the baby. She ended up with a botched section that turned septic, and her uterus ruined. She can never have another child. It's things like this that piss me off and make me so adamant about evidence based care. There was no need for my friend to suffer as she did, or for her to lose her ability to carry a child.
__________________
Women and cats will do what they want, men and dogs will have to get used to it. ~~ Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-25-2013, 03:07 PM
sleepygirl sleepygirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
This has nothing to do with 'mommy wars' or anyone needing to 'breathe,' but simply a matter of courtesy and sticking to facts.
Maybe I was speaking to myself then, as a reminder to not get my own dander up. It is indeed a "mommy war" topic, after all. People's blood gets to boiling and they hack and slash at one another over it. I don't like it.

The fact is, I happen to agree with london about the brainwashing. I guess that's why the statement doesn't bother me. I see a medical community seemingly dedicated to keeping women uninformed and uneducated about natural birth purely over money. Well, money and the ability to schedule all their mothers for c-sections, so it doesn't interfere with their tee time...
__________________
Women and cats will do what they want, men and dogs will have to get used to it. ~~ Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-25-2013, 03:14 PM
london london is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK - land of the free
Posts: 1,635
Default

Quote:
The fact is, experts in any field will have different opinions about what is proper.
The problem is that in science, there are right and wrongs. Some of the practice that is routine in America is wrong because research has said it is either non beneficial or actually dangerous. That's the difference. We have research to tell us what should and shouldn't be done. Doing something that research has told us should not be done is wrong. Your opinion might be that it is right, but facts tell us it is wrong.

Quote:
. I see it all the time in my field, where people will nearly come to blows over the smallest details of how to accomplish a task, when the fact is, half the experts are doing it one way, half are doing it the other, and they're all producing results.
The thing is that often, doing it the other way, the wrong way, causes emotional and physical harm to mothers and babies. So it isn't just fine to allow the others to do things the way they want to and turn a blind eye.

Last edited by london; 09-25-2013 at 03:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:37 AM
MsChristy's Avatar
MsChristy MsChristy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: East Coast
Posts: 87
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepygirl View Post
I, too, have cried over some of the horrors I've seen at births. The first one of my friends that I saw give birth was when I was 16. So was she. It was a textbook handled, over-managed all-Amurrican birth trauma. That experience was what sent me running for a midwife from the very first time I was pregnant. I didn't 100% know about midwives or home birth, but I knew I didn't want that!

I only have one hospital birth experience of my own. With my 4th child, I had bells palsy. That almost always means delivery 4-5 weeks early, and thus I was remanded to an OB. The doc herself was quite friendly, understood that I was used to birthing naturally and quickly at home, agreed to my every whim and concern about birthing in the hospital. I thought I was gold, that I could have another phenomenal birth experience despite the hospital. I went into natural labor, 4 weeks before my son's EDD. It was 4 am when I went in, my doc wasn't there, and because I had no signed birth plan, I was subject to the demands of the nurses and the on-call doc, who basically made no bones about the fact she viewed me as just one more cow for the cattle chute. It was humiliating. It didn't matter what I wanted or what I said, it was control and interference from the get go. Trapped on my back, strapped to machines, the whole nine yards, pumped full of pitocin, for no medical reason. It was horrid. Still, I was sure when MY doc got there, things would change. Ha. In reality, I should have known better. I really should have. I've done hours, days of reading and research. I'd read thousands of "what went wrong" kind of stories. I knew, but it was head knowledge. In my heart, I didn't know yet, how brutal, how mechanical and managed birth can be here. I do now. In its own way, it was a lesson I can look back at and be thankful for, in that, I now have a taste of what is the only birth experience some women ever have. (God, what a painful and frightening thought!) Hopefully, it will make me a better birth assistant in the long run.

And yay! Now I just have to scare up the money for my certifications... heh.
Sleepygirl,

I am a nurse and when I went to nursing school my goal was to get my RN so I could go on and become a midwife, with a goal of focusing on home births/natural births. Unfortunately, I did my OB clinicals in nursing school at a inner city hospital with a large high risk labor and delivery unit. This hospital was known among locals as the "baby factory" and I found out first hand that it lived up to the name. The doctors and nurses there looked down on even basic interventions such as walking during labor, laboring balls, or tubs. All mothers were only allowed ice chips while laboring, in the rare instance they might happen to need emergency surgery, which almost never happened and just left them weaker as the labor progressed. The labor and delivery unit had a birthing tub, which they kept in a storage locker and discouraged mothers from using.

The only positive experience I saw during my time there was there was a traditional Asian doctor that catered to Asian immigrants and provided the medication free birth that people from her culture wanted. Of course this was the exception, and certainly not the norm.

After getting to watch the American birthing experience I was so disillusioned by the whole process I chose to go a different path and not become a midwife. Sometimes I wonder if I turned my back too early.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------
MsChristy- married female
C-my husband
H-my partner
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:52 AM
Flybigirlsea Flybigirlsea is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2
Default Midwife for Poly Relationships

Interesting idea. Our family is having discussions about having children and what the healthiest way to accomplish that is. Our chief concern is the welfare and stability of the child or children but also have concerns about internal family relationships...ie who should bear the child and the process of getting pregnant without raising jealous or resentful feelings.

We would definately be interested in a service such as the one you are thinking about.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-26-2013, 05:24 AM
alibabe_muse's Avatar
alibabe_muse alibabe_muse is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Ermm, Ali, this may be cultural and all but....that IS actually terrifying to me.

The majority of the time in the UK at least, they discuss emergency procedure during the pregnancy, this negates having papers flying in front of your face during labour. To be honest, I find that all rather shocking. I am glad you have felt your experiences were positive ones though and I am so happy to hear your baby was fine after that scare.
The only reason for signing a paper was that I had work orders to tie my tubes. Blood was gushing out of me because the placenta erupted. The hour before I arrived I was having a contraction that did not stop (high pain tolerance) but zero dialation. I was fine, very aware of what had to be done but because of my written wishes new paperwork was introduced. To describe how much of an "emergency" we were in, less than two minutes after the spinal the doctor made the first cut. They not only saved my baby but me because within 10 minutes I had lost so much blood. I was already on the OB practice's high risk list. (Gestational diabetes as well as a previous c-section). Throughout the pregnancy all matters of emergency delivery was discussed but no tests showed there was any problems. A true unexpected emergency.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-26-2013, 05:32 AM
alibabe_muse's Avatar
alibabe_muse alibabe_muse is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
I found that American women found our service undesirable because we wouldn't do things like give them epidurals when they are not in active labour, induce labour because she was over being pregnant or because we refuse to suction healthy neonates. They had been so brainwashed by a system where doctors are paid for every intervention they perform, that they thought these things were actually safer for the baby.
With my second child I was on a pregnancy forum of about 500 pregnant ladies all due in same month I was. A few begged their doc's for what you described. Maybe 1% were given what they asked for. I think it's the patient who has this mind set less than the hospital and doctors. Yes, some OB's push the c-sections but not in every state.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:31 AM
london london is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK - land of the free
Posts: 1,635
Default

Just to clarify, the actual reason this is relevant to the thread, criticising the system I mean, is because until doctors acknowledge all the things that could impact on a woman's ability to labour and give birth, things like a poly woman having both her partners supporting her will not be seen as important. Vets fully acknowledge that if you spook a labouring animal, they will often stop contracting. It's instinctual. Why would you make yourself and your infant vulnerable to a predator? Doctors are less willing to accept that the same goes for women. I'm not really a "spiritual midwife", but I do believe that holistic care maximises a woman's ability to have a normal vaginal delivery. Ina May who is a super spiritual midwife says "loose lips, loose cervix"; she believes that if a woman isn't able to express her feelings, she will not be able to dilate. I'm not sure I would go that far but ensuring that women are able to have the birth they want, in the surroundings they want, supported by the people they want will give her a better experience all round. When, as pointed out, we aren't even allowing women to eat when they are doing one of the most physically exhausting things they will ever do in their lifetime, we are a long way from catering to the needs of a polyamorous family.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:17 PM.