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  #21  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:17 PM
Flowerchild Flowerchild is offline
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Default Very fair points

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Originally Posted by PaperGrace View Post
I am not okay with my partner maintaining a relationship with a Cowboy/Cowgirl.
And that's certainly your right in setting up the boundaries you're comfortable with. Myself, I would not want to be with someone who was actively trying to take my partner away from me, either....but I would not be angry with that cowgirl/cowboy. But I certainly wouldn't stick around and put up with that kind of bs from my partner.

There's also been a lot of talk about "poisoning." To me, that's another subject and I very much agree with what's been said. I just didn't want to dilute my question by putting too much in my original post.
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2013, 07:36 PM
gorgeouskitten gorgeouskitten is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I don't feel that someone wanting to date my partner exclusively is in any way disrespecting me. I mean, unless they somehow directly disrespected me "You are a dick, Marcus, and frankly I think IV should leave you for me". This would be disrespectful, but that's because I'm being called out and verbally attacked.

A cowboy telling IV "I want to be with you exclusively. Leave your other fellas and bask in the glory of blah blah blah" has nothing to do with me. That is a choice presented to IV and she would need to decide what to do with it (IV views the idea of needing to choose one relationship over the other to be laughable, so this doesn't really apply to her). While I certainly have a preference, it's still not my business to interfere in her life or her relationships.



If my partner wants to 'leave me' for someone else, there is not only nothing I can do about it but nothing I *should* do about it. If I had the option to restrict their actions, guilt them, bully them, bribe them (what other options are there?)... would I really want to?

Someone who doesn't want to associate with me anymore needs to move on. I might be a whimpering mess for a while but I'll come out of it and eventually start living my life again. That would be much preferred to someone begrudgingly being with me even though what they really want to do is be monogamous with some other dude.

Ain't nobody got time for that.
I whole heartedly agree. and nice use of internet meme
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2013, 07:58 PM
Flowerchild Flowerchild is offline
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Default Question

"A cowboy telling IV "I want to be with you exclusively. Leave your other fellas and bask in the glory of blah blah blah" has nothing to do with me. That is a choice presented to IV and she would need to decide what to do with it (IV views the idea of needing to choose one relationship over the other to be laughable, so this doesn't really apply to her). While I certainly have a preference, it's still not my business to interfere in her life or her relationships."

Marcus, while I agree with the sentiment, don't be controlling of your partner(s), etc.....surely I have some right to "interfere" slightly with her life and relationships? If our lives never intersect, it doesn't seem to me to be much of a relationship....

*shrugs*

Probably misinterpreting, but the black and white way you presented the argument sounds rather cold for polyamory
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:13 PM
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Nudge Nudge is offline
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I'm with Marcus on this one. The tricky thing about trying to stop the 'cowboys/cowgirls' is that *if* they exist, you are playing right into their hands if you try to push them out. If they don't exist, you just gave your partner a reason to think you possessive and insecure-- and you may have damaged their other relationship.

Be loveable, understanding and confident, things that *you* can control.

Last edited by Nudge; 09-12-2013 at 08:16 PM.
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Flowerchild View Post
Marcus, while I agree with the sentiment, don't be controlling of your partner(s), etc.....surely I have some right to "interfere" slightly with her life and relationships? If our lives never intersect, it doesn't seem to me to be much of a relationship....
Can you give me an example of what would qualify as slight interference in her life and relationships?

It might just be that our forum "style" is different but that our points of view are not necessarily at odds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowerchild View Post
Probably misinterpreting, but the black and white way you presented the argument sounds rather cold for polyamory
Polyamory has nothing to do with "warm" vs "cold". It is multiple romantic relationships... the temperature of said relationships is not part of the definition.
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  #26  
Old 09-13-2013, 12:18 AM
Flowerchild Flowerchild is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Can you give me an example of what would qualify as slight interference in her life and relationships?

It might just be that our forum "style" is different but that our points of view are not necessarily at odds.



Polyamory has nothing to do with "warm" vs "cold". It is multiple romantic relationships... the temperature of said relationships is not part of the definition.
Regarding your first point, hmmmmm. Basically, if my partner is dating someone, I would take interest in their other dating partners. Who my partner dates affects me, and I would want some involvement, even if it's just knowing who they are and what they're like. The way you phrased it sounded like you and your partner's dating/private lives had no intersection. I felt that was probably not your intent.

When I say warm and cold, I mean the romance part. A warm relationship is affectionate, comforting, what I hope for in a relationship. A cold one is where the two people are technically together, maybe married or living together. But have no other connections, no shared interests, no interest in spending time together, etc. Poly theoretically involves love and warmth, no?
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  #27  
Old 09-13-2013, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowerchild View Post
surely I have some right to "interfere" slightly with her life and relationships?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowerchild View Post
I would take interest in their other dating partners. Who my partner dates affects me, and I would want some involvement, even if it's just knowing who they are and what they're like.
An intimate relationship, by definition, involves sharing the details of each others lives. Note that it does not involve sharing authority over the details of each others lives (that is power exchange)... just talking about them so that we understand each other better and thus hopefully deepen and/or broaden the nature of our association. Note that there is also no requirement for the degree of intimate exchange or a time frame in which is must be established... just that this kind of vulnerable understanding of one another (and not weaponizing it) is what builds intimacy.

Again, what do you mean by "involvement"? Are you just talking about hearing the details or are you talking about having some right to "interfere slightly" with their relationships?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowerchild View Post
The way you phrased it sounded like you and your partner's dating/private lives had no intersection. I felt that was probably not your intent.
If you are talking about having conversations with my partner about what is going on in their lives (as you alluded to above, sort of) then I don't know where you are getting this. You seem to be conflating the ideas of "lives intersecting" and "interfering" in their relationships.

I am in favor of intimacy, I am not in favor of power exchange.

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Originally Posted by Flowerchild View Post
A warm relationship is affectionate, comforting, what I hope for in a relationship. A cold one is where the two people are technically together, maybe married or living together.
So, wait, because I do not assume that I have some kind of authority over the lives of my loved ones (in this case, my romantic partner) I am now unable to be affectionate or comforting?

Seriously FC, I'm trying to understand what your point is but you are not helping.
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  #28  
Old 09-13-2013, 05:00 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Flowerchild, I am confused as well. Firstly, whose life do you feel you should be able to interfere with - your partner's or your metamour's?

Secondly, there is no rule that in order to be polyamorous all the people you are involved with have to know each other and get along. Keeping relationships separate and "not intersecting" does not automatically mean that there is coldness or lack of respect going on. Not everyone wants to be in a poly tribe.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #29  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:22 AM
london london is offline
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B
Quote:
asically, if my partner is dating someone, I would take interest in their other dating partners.
Why, because you think they might be cool people or you want to see if your partner has chosen partners who you approve of?

Quote:
Who my partner dates affects me, and I would want some involvement, even if it's just knowing who they are and what they're like.
Why? Don't you trust your partner to choose people who will not have a negative impact on your relationship with him? Or is it becuse they are your partner and therefore they must share everything of theirs? Even their other relationships?


Quote:
The way you phrased it sounded like you and your partner's dating/private lives had no intersection. I felt that was probably not your intent.
You can be polyamorous and manage your relationships in a way where they don't intersect. Needing intersection is usually a sign of control issues.

Quote:
When I say warm and cold, I mean the romance part. A warm relationship is affectionate, comforting, what I hope for in a relationship. A cold one is where the two people are technically together, maybe married or living together. But have no other connections, no shared interests, no interest in spending time together, etc. Poly theoretically involves love and warmth, no?
So say I am married to Mike; Mike dates Polly too. I have never met, or want to meet Polly. I live with Mike, we have date night every week, do thing with our kids, fuck like bunnies, play poker in a league and cuddle on the sofa. Mike also stays with Polly 2 nights a week and they go out, stay in, cuddle, hang out with friends and also enjoy a fulfilling relationship. Both the romantic relationships (me and Mike and Mike and Polly) involve lots of interaction together, affection and the other things that you said warrant "warmth" even though me and Polly have never even met. How can you say us not meeting makes the other two romantic relationships cold? Is it simply because Mike has something\someone that I have no part in? Do you need to have input into every aspect of your partner's life to feel "warm"?
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  #30  
Old 09-13-2013, 04:10 PM
Flowerchild Flowerchild is offline
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Default Hmmmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
An intimate relationship, by definition, involves sharing the details of each others lives. Note that it does not involve sharing authority over the details of each others lives (that is power exchange)... just talking about them so that we understand each other better and thus hopefully deepen and/or broaden the nature of our association. Note that there is also no requirement for the degree of intimate exchange or a time frame in which is must be established... just that this kind of vulnerable understanding of one another (and not weaponizing it) is what builds intimacy.

Again, what do you mean by "involvement"? Are you just talking about hearing the details or are you talking about having some right to "interfere slightly" with their relationships?
Hmmm, well, for one, you're assuming that an "intimate relationship" means the same thing to everyone. I've certainly had occasions where I was approached by someone who said they wanted an "intimate relationship" with me, and I THOUGHT, like you, the above definition was what they meant. But turned out they thought they could have an intimate relationship in which I had no access or knowledge of any part of their life that wasn't directly related to me (i.e. they didn't want me to meet their friends or their SO at ANY point EVER...or they had kids, but because their kids were part of their SO's and their life, I was told I would never be able to be around them at any point, period). Is that poly? I suppose so, but it's not a form of poly I care to be a part of. Say you and I were to date, and you never wanted me to meet IV. That's certainly your right, but I'd probably have issue with our relationship heading towards anything serious. To me, being allowed to meet IV would be "involvement," but it could easily mean "interference" to you. Again, different flavors of practicing poly.

I hope that answers what I mean by "involvement" and "interference." Not really sure where the confusion lies, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
So, wait, because I do not assume that I have some kind of authority over the lives of my loved ones (in this case, my romantic partner) I am now unable to be affectionate or comforting?

Seriously FC, I'm trying to understand what your point is but you are not helping.
I'm totally confused where that bit about authority came from. I thought you were merely asking me clarification on why I thought "warmth" had to do with poly. I was just trying to define what I thought "warm" and "cold" were. No judgement on your relationships at all.
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