Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 09-12-2013, 02:17 AM
Marcus's Avatar
Marcus Marcus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Haltom City, TX
Posts: 1,287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyourendo View Post
I do not fear cowfolk but I refuse to be disrespected.
I don't feel that someone wanting to date my partner exclusively is in any way disrespecting me. I mean, unless they somehow directly disrespected me "You are a dick, Marcus, and frankly I think IV should leave you for me". This would be disrespectful, but that's because I'm being called out and verbally attacked.

A cowboy telling IV "I want to be with you exclusively. Leave your other fellas and bask in the glory of blah blah blah" has nothing to do with me. That is a choice presented to IV and she would need to decide what to do with it (IV views the idea of needing to choose one relationship over the other to be laughable, so this doesn't really apply to her). While I certainly have a preference, it's still not my business to interfere in her life or her relationships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaperGrace View Post
I also concede there's not much I can do about it.
If my partner wants to 'leave me' for someone else, there is not only nothing I can do about it but nothing I *should* do about it. If I had the option to restrict their actions, guilt them, bully them, bribe them (what other options are there?)... would I really want to?

Someone who doesn't want to associate with me anymore needs to move on. I might be a whimpering mess for a while but I'll come out of it and eventually start living my life again. That would be much preferred to someone begrudgingly being with me even though what they really want to do is be monogamous with some other dude.

Ain't nobody got time for that.
__________________
Independent (Anarchist) Non-Monogamy

Me: male, 40, straight, single
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-12-2013, 02:52 AM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowerchild View Post
. . . my take on cowboys/cowgirls is: who cares? You can't control what other people think. Say that your partner's OSO believes they can steal him/her away. Unless your partner is willing to abandon you, nothing that other person can say or do will take them away.
While I agree with and understand your perspective to a degree, there is something you are missing here. What cowboys and cowgirls CAN do, even if they know they cannot "steal" someone away from a partner is this: they can slowly poison the relationship. The really skilled ones use very subtle criticisms, and/or learn ways to "show up" or "one-up" their metamours (with certain skills, attitudes, accomplishments, etc.). Then your partner comes home and starts criticizing you or gets into arguments with you out of nowhere.

Anyone can poison a relationship, it isn't just OSOs. Even mono couples can have people attempting to poison their relationships, and not just because they want to be with one of them. Some people are just "relationship splitters" who are uncomfortable with happy couples. These people probably always wriggled their way in between their parents when they could, or set them arguing to get something they wanted - it is a very clear, selfish dynamic, often unconscious, that many people operate by -- and in more than just love relationships. They get in between and cause discord among business partners, too.

You might know someone who subconsciously resents you for being tight with your partner for whatever reason, and they make comments about relationships never working out or say disparaging things about men or women, and you go home and see your partner sitting there watching TV with his hand in his pants like Al Bundy, and all of sudden you're thinking, "This is what I signed up for? What a slob!" Hahaha. That happens often enough and you're pretty disgruntled with your situation. When I first got married, I recall that someone I worked with was always sending stupid email jokes to everyone about how rotten men are and how marriage sucks, and I had to tell her to stop. I didn't want that energy directed at me. Not that we didn't have a strong enough relationship to withstand assholes making dumb remarks, but it's like being brainwashed over time. I mean, how many people just think it's a given that women love to go shoe-shopping and men can't express their feelings? Is it fact or just what we've been told? An OSO always whispering in your partner's ear how much better she can meet his needs than you can, will create mischief.

But seriously, over time, a cowperson can do damage on a psychic level, and in very insidious ways. So yes, you are right that the person involved with the cowgirl/boy is the one who needs to set boundaries and not tolerate lovers talking shit like that or doing things that set people against each other. But some people are toxic. I don't believe that hierarchies belong in love relationships, and I don't think that a person should be able to veto their partner's other partners, but they should speak up when they sense some poisoning going on.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein

Last edited by nycindie; 09-12-2013 at 03:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-12-2013, 03:09 AM
Marcus's Avatar
Marcus Marcus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Haltom City, TX
Posts: 1,287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
When I first got married, I recall that someone I worked with was always sending stupid email jokes to everyone about how rotten men are and how marriage sucks, and I had to tell her to stop. I didn't want that energy directed at me.
I see this as the important aspect to focus on here.

I agree, there are insidious monsters out there who just seem to want to make life as difficult as they can for as many people as possible; I have had the unfortunate pleasure of knowing and working with a few. HOWEVER, the fact remains that we do have the ability as adults to recuse ourselves from contact with these people... and we certainly have the option to not be romantically involved with them.
__________________
Independent (Anarchist) Non-Monogamy

Me: male, 40, straight, single
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:12 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 513
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudge View Post
I don't think any of us can trust that our partner won't leave. They can leave in a mono relationship or a poly one. We can only trust that we will be respected and that our partners will remain honest with us (and themselves).

A lot of the cowboy/cowgirl thing is illusion and fantasy. Being open to discuss it and not making it a taboo strikes me as the best way to handle it.
I think this is the best and most honest assessment I've seen yet.

On this forum alone, there are plenty of examples of someone leaving their spouse for their (formerly) secondary. Is it because the secondary is an awful person who deliberately destroyed the marriage? Or because the marriage was going to end anyway? Or because the fact is, when we have romantic relationships, we just might fall in love and decide we want to be with that person more than who we were with?

Maybe labeling someone a CB/CG, making them the bad guy, is a way of avoiding the real issues that were in the marriage; avoiding blaming the person we want to love; avoiding admitting the very painful truth that our spouse left us for someone else, or facing the fear that maybe we were lacking in some way.

I personally think that as much thought as is given to labeling people cowboys/cowgirls, there needs to be equal thought given to inviting a known mono person into a relationship, giving them love and romance, and then being incensed when that mono person falls in love and wants more. There's a strong element there of playing with someone's feelings. Being an emotional tease.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:37 AM
Inyourendo's Avatar
Inyourendo Inyourendo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: sw missouri
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I don't feel that someone wanting to date my partner exclusively is in any way disrespecting me. I mean, unless they somehow directly disrespected me "You are a dick, Marcus, and frankly I think IV should leave you for me". This would be disrespectful, but that's because I'm being called out and verbally attacked.

A cowboy telling IV "I want to be with you exclusively. Leave your other fellas and bask in the glory of blah blah blah" has nothing to do with me. That is a choice presented to IV and she would need to decide what to do with it (IV views the idea of needing to choose one relationship over the other to be laughable, so this doesn't really apply to her). While I certainly have a preference, it's still not my business to interfere in her life or her relationships.



If my partner wants to 'leave me' for someone else, there is not only nothing I can do about it but nothing I *should* do about it. If I had the option to restrict their actions, guilt them, bully them, bribe them (what other options are there?)... would I really want to?

Someone who doesn't want to associate with me anymore needs to move on. I might be a whimpering mess for a while but I'll come out of it and eventually start living my life again. That would be much preferred to someone begrudgingly being with me even though what they really want to do is be monogamous with some other dude.

Ain't nobody got time for that.
Oh I didn't mean then wishing my partner was monogamous with him would be disrespectful, but rather trying to cause drama in mt relationship is disrespectful.
__________________
Sue, openly in a vee with Nate (polysexual, many fwb) and Sam (Mono)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:03 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 867
Default

Flowerchild, I partially agree. In my case, I should have cared because I was the one dating a cowgirl who wanted my husband out of the picture. By her own admission, she revelled in knowing that he wanted a divorce. I guess she thought she could swoop in and save the day by mending my breaking heart. As Cindie and PaperGrace pointed out, sometimes people are poisonous, and a CG/CB is never going to identify themselves as such, so most people are caught off-guard.

My ex was poly when I met her, and years in to the relationship she asked if we could close. She was a cowgirl and hid it well. There were no indications that every action had an ulterior motive. She later confirmed every concern he had ever tried to present to me was in fact valid and accurate. She put years of work in to it, and it almost worked because my husband left and wanted a divorce. That made her happy because her desire to have me to herself was coming true.

I have admitted that communication between DH and I should have been better. That pales in comparison to having a CG armed with a plan to break down a marriage. We could have had the best communication in the world, but my relationship with a CG would have ultimately killed our marriage, and she was going to make sure of it. All those little things like always wanting more of my time, refusing to respect his wishes and give him space, undermining him as a parent, the refusal to relocate despite all the work that went in to planning the move, using our children as a reason to spend so much time at our home, stepping all over his boundaries, her desire to push him out, making herself a third party in our marriage, and the list goes on. Even once he knew what she was up to, he never asked me to end the relationship.

To me, it was highly disrespectful because it showed that she did not respect him, me, our marriage, his role in my life, or even our family. It made me question whether her so-called love for and involvement with my children was real, or if it was just another thing to piss him off. I have tried to wrap my head around the fact that she would have been okay with me having to go through a divorce and custody battle if it meant furthering her agenda.

Could I have avoided this? Yes and no. Yes, by listening to him and remembering that he would never do anything to hurt me or impede my happiness unless it was necessary. No, because her efforts started in 2006, so it was a gradual process. For 6 years, it was an open relationship on her end. She had other partners and dropped all of them. She always had the option to seek another primary. Motherhood and my career automatically meant the time I had for the first eight years would never be possible. She opted not to seek anyone else, so when the relationship closed in late 2006, suddenly I was the only one in her life romantically. She always wanted more, and I tried to give it to her at the expense of sacrificing my marriage. We just broke up this year. Think about how much damage was done in all that time.

Did she steal me away from my spouse? No, but she did help break my marriage down, and in some ways that is worse because who was left to pick up the pieces? We were.
__________________
Ry - Me. Panromantic demisexual with a history of polyamorist tendencies. Married to...
Mr. Grey - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 12 years and father of our (3) children.
Closed.

My Blog
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:44 AM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,106
Default

Lots of people will come and go and change the course of a relationship.

When I say they can try-but it won't work-I don't mean that they couldn't convince my partner to stop dating me.
But we have obligations together that won't go away. Period. So the option for taking them away is out.
I don't deem sex or even dating to be the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of either of my romantic relationships. There have been times when I loved each of them-that I was not in a dating, sexually involved or romantic relationship with them. That is moot to me.

The drama and bs that Nycindie addresses-that is a huge problem. Having dealt with that in the not to recent past-from someone who wasn't a "cowgirl"-my response is that my partner has two choices;
keep that shit away from me completely
or leave

End of subject. Abuse by a third party that he (or the other he) invites into the circle-is not acceptable. Period.

I do understand the process for restraining orders and I will use it if necessary.

But-I suspect highly that after having experienced that drama themselves-neither of them is willing to tolerate it either.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:14 PM
gorgeouskitten gorgeouskitten is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New England
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
I think this is the best and most honest assessment I've seen yet.

On this forum alone, there are plenty of examples of someone leaving their spouse for their (formerly) secondary. Is it because the secondary is an awful person who deliberately destroyed the marriage? Or because the marriage was going to end anyway? Or because the fact is, when we have romantic relationships, we just might fall in love and decide we want to be with that person more than who we were with?

Maybe labeling someone a CB/CG, making them the bad guy, is a way of avoiding the real issues that were in the marriage; avoiding blaming the person we want to love; avoiding admitting the very painful truth that our spouse left us for someone else, or facing the fear that maybe we were lacking in some way.

I personally think that as much thought as is given to labeling people cowboys/cowgirls, there needs to be equal thought given to inviting a known mono person into a relationship, giving them love and romance, and then being incensed when that mono person falls in love and wants more. There's a strong element there of playing with someone's feelings. Being an emotional tease.
I also think Nudge's response was good...in part, because he is my partner and its interesting to see that by our posts on this particular thread you can see two parties of a couple dont even have the same out look on it. Of coruse, in my original comment I only address my thoughts on J and cowgirls, not Nudge
__________________
keep on keeping on
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-12-2013, 01:29 PM
Marcus's Avatar
Marcus Marcus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Haltom City, TX
Posts: 1,287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nudge
A lot of the cowboy/cowgirl thing is illusion and fantasy
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
Maybe labeling someone a CB/CG, making them the bad guy, is a way of avoiding the real issues that were in the marriage; avoiding blaming the person we want to love; avoiding admitting the very painful truth that our spouse left us for someone else, or facing the fear that maybe we were lacking in some way.
I like this WH; I think you and Nudge may well be on to something here.

Relationships end for lots of reasons:
They can't stand your bullshit anymore
They meet someone they like better (and are monogamous)
They are just not that into you anymore
They meet an insidious evil mastermind who tricks them into leaving you
But the sociopath cowboy/cowgirl does seem to be the least plausible culprit. Looking at it through that filter, it seems very likely that most of the villains who people accuse of being manipulative bad guys are just "the person my lover left me for"... without any further explanation needed. There are sociopaths out there, but it sounds like most of them are dating LovingRadiances fellas, so we're pretty safe in the cities
__________________
Independent (Anarchist) Non-Monogamy

Me: male, 40, straight, single
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:41 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
There are sociopaths out there, but it sounds like most of them are dating LovingRadiances fellas, so we're pretty safe in the cities

LOL, I almost spit out my coffee! Hahahahaha!
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:00 AM.