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  #31  
Old 09-10-2013, 09:04 AM
london london is offline
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Originally Posted by Duckshoes View Post
Hello


I am writing to you because I don't know who else to talk to.


My wife and I have been seeing another girl for about 8 months and this last Friday she told us that she wants to keep seeing us while dating other people (she was asked out by a friend who didn't know about us). We said that it wasn't something we could foresee us accommodating and that the issue was a time one and not a love one. She chose to leave us saying that she wasn't able to commit to us exclusively. This has devastated my wife and me and to be honest we are both kind of a wreck. I truly believe that we have the capacity to love multiple people but I also don't think a relationship can work without seeing someone on a regular basis. My wife and I aren't looking for a casual sex partner who we see every now and then and I am worried that if we let her see other people our relationship will just come down to opportune moments that work on her schedule. Am I wrong in feeling this way? We never told anyone about our relationship and we don't have anyone to talk to. I don't know what poly really is and I don't think it is the same to everyone. I don't even know what I am looking for from you but I just need to at least get someone else's perspective on this


Thank you for your time
There is absolutely nothing wrong with "closed" polyamorous relationships, where the people involved are exclusive to one another. Also known as polyfidelity. The thing is though, like anything in life, it's much better if the people involved actually choose to be in that arrangement rather than you enforce it as part of building a relationship with you.

This concept extends to cover some of your insecurities about whether this potential person will consider you in their schedule; someone who will make time for you to build something that could be long term. The thing is, they will if it's right for them. You don't want someone who has no other option but to spend time with you two, you want someone who actively chooses to spend time with you. What better way to guarantee that than to be secure in the fact that they have other options but they have chosen you?

From my understanding, the successful polyfidelious triads occur when people have the option to date others, but really don't need to. Often, there is no official rule, no agreements, it just is.
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  #32  
Old 09-10-2013, 01:45 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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The bottom line is, unless a partner, friend, loved one, spouse, etc... is not treating you like someone they genuinely care about, or hurting others, why would want them to be bound by the way to live that works for you, but not necessarily her?

Believe me I have been in your shoes, Duck, and it is totally natural to want them to desire the same things that you do, but you don't ever want them to forced to do something they do not want to do, or not allowed to do what makes them happy.

I do think it is always good to be honest, so no, it wouldn't be good to pretend you are OK with it, you could tell her that you don't know if that is something you can ever be OK with but desire to try. The problem most people have in these situations is that it is they cannot be honest with themselves and end up attempting to coerce the partner into doing what they want them to do

What I have found helps people, is trying to think about her relationships without sex and completely platonic -- NOT as an exercise in sticking your head in the sand and pretending there is no sex if there is -- but rather because most people have no trouble seeing how telling a partner they are not allowed to have close friends crosses the line into abusive control. Because there are strong emotions involved it is all but impossible to place restrictions on a loved one without your true motives becoming blurred and having an element of manipulation or coercion and the only way to ensure you are not controlling a loved one in abusive ways is to have full disclosure and honesty being the only restrictions.

It sounds like that is what you are doing, so keep doing that, esp if you know you wouldn't be able to handle her seeing others, people can get mad at you all they want, but so long as you are not misleading or attempting to manipulate your partners or influence them according to your desires, who cares.

Just know that when you are involved with honest, respectful people, love can conquer all and you would be surprised at the rewards it can bring into your life with compatible people. Caring compassionate relationships with respect for all involved never detracts from one's life and sex has nothing to do with it, though when sex is the aspect that prevents a relationship from continuing when all other facets of a healthy relationship are present it will hurt, but it would hurt for any reason that it ends.

It hurts, but because you all know your boundaries and have the courage to be honest about it and communicate it without ambiguity, you are preventing a much worse heart ache,

no body has a flawed outlook on life as far as I can see your situation, having the courage to communicate how you feel is an important aspect to healthy successful relationship

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 09-10-2013 at 01:52 PM. Reason: typo
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  #33  
Old 09-10-2013, 03:57 PM
Flowerchild Flowerchild is offline
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Default Hmmmmm

Upon further reflection, I change my mind about this being you wanting too much and giving too little.

I think this is simply a case of "She's not that into you." It hurts, but I think that's probably all there is to it.

In other words, it's not you, it's her.
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  #34  
Old 09-10-2013, 06:47 PM
Duckshoes Duckshoes is offline
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Well, my wife and I talked and we went back to her saying we were wrong to not allow her to date others and that we wanted her in our lives. She declined and has said that she doesn't want to go through the process again and that it is too much for her.

In the end, our initial inability to see things from her persepective (although in fairness we didn't know how she felt because she didn't tell us) ment that we lost out on this relationship. We both spoke with her and she has said we are done. I feel pretty bad both that we lost her and from the fact that if I knew more, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

Life lesson I guess.....I wish I could turn back time or say the right thing to convience her but that isn't my decision.
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  #35  
Old 09-10-2013, 07:19 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by Duckshoes View Post
In the end, our initial inability to see things from her persepective (although in fairness we didn't know how she felt because she didn't tell us)....
You needed to be told? You're unable to put yourself in another person's shoes even enough to see how they might feel being told you and your wife get to share life and take care of one another, and she gets to take care of herself, have no one else to really depend on, spend lots of time alone, and be forbidden to see anyone else and search for what you and your wife have together??? Empathy 101.
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  #36  
Old 09-10-2013, 07:26 PM
Duckshoes Duckshoes is offline
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Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
You needed to be told? You're unable to put yourself in another person's shoes even enough to see how they might feel being told you and your wife get to share life and take care of one another, and she gets to take care of herself, have no one else to really depend on, spend lots of time alone, and be forbidden to see anyone else and search for what you and your wife have together??? Empathy 101.
I again maybe used the wrong terms. When she was around us she said we were all she needed and that she was happy. She never mentioned dating others and when she did it was out of the blue and a shock. That is why we reacted the way we did. I honestly thought she enjoyed the relationship as it was and didn't know she wanted more. When we spoke she said that I should have known and perhaps she was right. I just didn't see it.
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  #37  
Old 09-10-2013, 07:32 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default Omfg

OH MY FUCKING GOD

I wish I could say I was sorry, but I am not, flame away should you feel, if you got smokes, light em, cause I will gladly leave another forum rather than suffer the unspoken rules of taking it upon yourself to influence others by going out of your way to spread a little poison under the fallacy of justification that you are somehow doing somebody a favor or preventing some bi babes abuse in some unknown person's future, it's complete and utter bullshit and failure to recognize it is one of the failures of most poly communities.

But like NASA claiming they put a person on the moon, like "professional" wrestling isn't scripted acting albeit a little more violent or any other occurrence where something is blatantly obvious yet under know circumstances will it ever be admitted, by whatever lame rule of whatever hopelessly flawed set of beliefs "there is no fight club"

what fucking ever, fuck you

I don't give a fuck, my name is Dusty and I and don't give fuck, there is something wrong when you cannot openly discuss or are forced to abide by laws which dictate the "TRUTH" that you are allowed to believe. The same as it is abusive, nay one of the fundamentally worst ways you can infringe upon another persons Rights by dictating a persons religion or allowance to publicly no believe in God, this falls right in line of the level of wrongness perpetrated when you dictate who a person is allowed to LOVE, in my mind it is a serious offense, one that unfortunately there can never be a law against because no matter what laws you write against wrongful discrimination, the only way you can completely stop it would be to commit and equal level of crime, and that is just plain fucking deleterious

and just like the fatally flawed bullshit philosophy of the lesser of two evils amounts to nothing but terrorism because you can always choose neither evil and let them that will do evil, do evil, as you are NOT responsible for another person's actions and such threats are empty

In case you haven't Duckshoes, some places where polyamorous people hang out, whether it be online or in real life, have taken it upon themselves to believe they are more qualified than you are to make decisions in your life if it looks like it may cross the line that divides monogamy and any form of non-monogamy. So rather than risk that your girlfriend is capable enough to decide for herself that she will not let a couple manipulate her, if your relationships are not "bomb-proof" they take it upon themselves to sling the literal (with words) equivalent to ensure your mind can handle every worst thought that could possibly enter your mind, and that is a fucked up thing to do. And I have never once, not ever witnessed people ever admitting it so when denial is rampant, you can't even discuss the problem, hence it will always be a problem.

fuck that, you did nothing wrong, you were honest, I don't give a fuck if you cannot bring yourself to letting a lover see other people, that is not my right to interfere and I fully remember the reason why I severed all contact with certain people in my life due to "poly" related reasons, and if you are too stupid to admit it, well fuck you too, there are people who are not afraid of the truth, and who fully understand that denial of the TRUTH doesn't mean you have to infringe upon others' rights to know the truth, and it is NOT right for any of you to set the bar on how "thick skinned" a persons psyche need be, and should you still feel the need to scratch your head and say "huh?" let me save you the trouble

fuck you too

Just so you know Duckshoes, my words are not directed at you

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 09-10-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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  #38  
Old 09-10-2013, 07:40 PM
Duckshoes Duckshoes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
OH MY FUCKING GOD

I wish I could say I was sorry, but I am not, flame away should you feel, if you got smokes, light em, cause I will gladly leave another forum rather than suffer the unspoken rules of taking it upon yourself to influence others by going out of your way to spread a little poison under the fallacy of justification that you are somehow doing somebody a favor or preventing some bi babes abuse in some unknown person's future, it's complete and utter bullshit and failure to recognize it is one of the failures of most poly communities.

But like NASA claiming they put a person on the moon, like "professional" wrestling isn't scripted acting albeit a little more violent or any other occurrence where something is blatantly obvious yet under know circumstances will it ever be admitted, by whatever lame rule of whatever hopelessly flawed set of beliefs "there is no fight club"

what fucking ever, fuck you

I don't give a fuck, my name is Dusty and I and don't give fuck, there is something wrong when you cannot openly discuss or are forced to abide by laws which dictate the "TRUTH" that you are allowed to believe. The same as it is abusive, nay one of the fundamentally worst ways you can infringe upon another persons Rights by dictating a persons religion or allowance to publicly no believe in God, this falls right in line of the level of wrongness perpetrated when you dictate who a person is allowed to LOVE, in my mind it is a serious offense, one that unfortunately there can never be a law against because no matter what laws you write against wrongful discrimination, the only way you can completely stop it would be to commit and equal level of crime, and that is just plain fucking deleterious

and just like the fatally flawed bullshit philosophy of the lesser of two evils amounts to nothing but terrorism because you can always choose neither evil and let them that will do evil, do evil, as you are NOT responsible for another person's actions and such threats are empty

In case you haven't Duckshoes, some places where polyamorous people hang out, whether it be online or in real life, have taken it upon themselves to believe they are more qualified than you are to make decisions in your life if it looks like it may cross the line that divides monogamy and any form of non-monogamy. So rather than risk that your girlfriend is capable enough to decide for herself that she will not let a couple manipulate her, if your relationships are not "bomb-proof" they take it upon themselves to sling the literal (with words) equivalent to ensure your mind can handle every worst thought that could possibly enter your mind, and that is a fucked up thing to do. And I have never once, not ever witnessed people ever admitting it so when denial is rampant, you can't even discuss the problem, hence it will always be a problem.

fuck that, you did nothing wrong, you were honest, I don't give a fuck if you cannot bring yourself to letting a lover see other people, that is not my right to interfere and I fully remember the reason why I severed all contact with certain people in my life due to "poly" related reasons, and if you are too stupid to admit it, well fuck you too, there are people who are not afraid of the truth, and who fully understand that denial of the TRUTH doesn't mean you have to infringe upon others' rights to know the truth, and it is NOT right for any of you to set the bar on how "thick skinned" a persons psyche need be, and should you still feel the need to scratch your head and say "huh?" let me save you the trouble

fuck you too

Just so you know Duckshoes, my words are not directed at you
Okay. I must admitt I am a little confused and feel like there is a back story I am unaware of here (which is fine, I don't really care to be honest)
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  #39  
Old 09-10-2013, 07:42 PM
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YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
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Originally Posted by Duckshoes View Post
I again maybe used the wrong terms. When she was around us she said we were all she needed and that she was happy. She never mentioned dating others and when she did it was out of the blue and a shock. That is why we reacted the way we did. I honestly thought she enjoyed the relationship as it was and didn't know she wanted more. When we spoke she said that I should have known and perhaps she was right. I just didn't see it.
Communication and honesty go both ways, and if she's guilty of scotch-taping the unicorn horn to her forehead, then I can see why you're shocked when it falls off.

At least now you know what to talk about proactively when you meet someone new. Hard lesson to learn, but it looks like you're working on understanding, and I hope it'll serve you all well the next time.

And DC, I heard your brain explode from here... Your F-bomb laden post made me think of this song, and now that the earworm has taken hold, it's not going away. So, of course, I'm sharing with everyone coz that's how I roll. You're welcome.
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Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids, two cats, one house with many projects.
Chops (previously 'P'): My partner of ~3 years. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena (previously M1): Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa (previously AG): Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

My navel-gazing blog thread:
A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
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  #40  
Old 09-10-2013, 07:55 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Duck-

Dirt is venting over his/her being pissed off that so many people on this board are of the attitude that you should be a mind reader and know that there is a "right" and "wrong" in your dynamic without the other person stating their need/preferences
BECAUSE
so many of the people believe there is a right/wrong way to do poly.

It's an ongoing conflict that "ethics" change from person to person, place to place, etc (some disagree and feel that there is strictly ethical or nonethical behavior) and in that conflict-especially-is what is or is not "ethical" behavior regarding a relationship when it is with a person who is being "added" to a current existing relationship.

I'm not stating an opinion in any direction-just saying-if you were confused-that was what Dirt was going off about-and wasn't directed at you, but probably at a variety of people replying to your thread.

DIRT-it would still be helpful you if you use the "quote" feature to reference what on earth you are replying to so people don't sit around wondering what on earth you are writing about. Ya know?
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