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  #11  
Old 08-31-2013, 10:13 AM
zampana zampana is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
...you could start to clear it off your plate NOW rather than wait to do it AFTER you are in some other relationship.

Could reading about jealousy and pitfalls help you with your emotional management?

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/im...ed_10-6-10.pdf
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/im..._Polyamory.pdf

http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/p.../jealousy.html
http://www.kathylabriola.com/article...u-in-poly-hell

GL!
Galagirl
I totally agree - now is the time to work on me, while I can focus on me. It would be nice to have a chance at relationships brewing, sort of as something to look forward to, but there's only so much I can do. The universe will provide, I hope!

Thanks so much for the links. I'm reading an good book:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...om_search=true

It's dense and a little repetitive but does touch on many aspects of what causes jealousy. It's open relationship chapter needs a poly update -- only deals with jealousy in swingers. I will look forward to reading your references. It's hard being the one sitting at home right now, but if I can tackle it and come to terms with it, I'll be in a way better place when I finally connect with someone (who will also be seeing others - jealousy squared?!)
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2013, 10:20 AM
zampana zampana is offline
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Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
I've read many threads here in which men seem to have a more difficult time finding someone willing to have this sort of relationship, than women, for exactly the reasons you're finding.

Unless they're already married, themselves, really, what's the benefit to these women of a relationship with someone who only wants to see them part time, when he and his wife aren't busy?
I think this is exactly the perception I'm finding when approaching people. Unless you find exactly the right person who's either already in a committed open relationship, or who's very busy or very private, it doesn't work. Whereas more guys seem more open to a nice side relationship (unfortunately whether their SO knows or not). Yes it is a quality versus quantity.

I'm very conscious of what I'm asking from a woman, and hope/plan/wish that my new relationship(s) will have as much love and attention as my longer term one. This is one of the big current struggles I'm having -- my partner is in the middle of these two, albeit long distance relationships, but they're both intense in their own ways and demand time and attention that is suddenly not available for me. Of course. Duh. Tricky though. Hopefully uncomfortable just because it's all so new and I'm rebooting everything I know about romantic relationships.
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  #13  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:28 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Haven't read it yet, but Labriola's new jealousy book is on pre-order.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Jealousy-W...riola+jealousy

YMMV.

Galagirl
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2013, 04:14 PM
Phlox Phlox is offline
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As a poly woman who is in a Vee with a man who has a monogamous wife, and who is actively searching for a female so, I vote no on this question.

I think it depends a lot on a person's definition of poly.For me, poly, swinging and FWB are very different types of relationships.I have experienced all three, and I am definitely more on the poly side, as the cultivating of relationships in AND out of the bedroom is very important to me.

It has been understood from the beginning by us all that I will eventually have a female partner.My metamour would like to see this happen as soon as possible, as she has some security issues with our relationship (and I don't blame her at all for feeling this way),due to past events in their lives in which a couple of his BDSM partners attempted to usurp their relationship and become his "only only." I would like to find her as soon as possible also, but having come out of one long term, unhealthy relationship, I am not willing to just jump into anything to reassure everyone or to deal with my occasional feelings of loneliness.There are certain things that are important to me in a relationship, and I look for signs of these while searching for dates.

It is no easier for me to find a woman for a relationship that it is a man. Casual sex or an FWB, no problem.I get asked for that quite often, but that is not what I am looking for.Thus far, I find women are just as hesitant to try a poly style relationship with a woman as they are with a man. Most women around here are monogamous.Most bi women looking outside of their current relationship are looking for a unicorn they can share with their partner for casual sex, or an FWB to play with when their partner is not around. They are not searching for a woman they can have a very meaningful relationship with in it's own right-and especially NOT a single woman who has a serious relationship with a married so (I am guessing it smacks of "potential home wrecker" to them). They can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that I have a very committed relationship with this man whom I love very much AND a separate life from him also.They can't understand the dynamics of the fact that I love and respect my metamour (she and I have some interests in common that our partner doesn't), just in a different way than I love my partner-but that I view them BOTH as my family.They can't seem to realize that my relationship with him is my relationship with HIM, and that our relationship would be an entity in it's own right, and just as important.

It doesn't help that I live in a very conservative area. There aren't too many openly gay couples here,although the tides are slowly turning, and definitely no completely open poly relationships (although a few people know about ours).I know of one openly bi woman, but she tends toward FWB and is not looking for anything else.

I am trying to patiently (kind of a problem, lol) keep myself open to the possibility of meeting her. I am posting on dating sites, and trying to get out more, as being around people increases the odds of actually meeting someone. In the meantime I am working on my life, pursuing things that interest me, and enjoying the time I have with my so (who is also actively helping me find someone-we have very similar tastes in women).
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:34 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by zampana View Post
I'm looking to meet people to fall in love with, while at the same time maintaining a beautiful relationship. Maybe in the future they can join our family or we can join theirs, maybe we'll live parallel lives together, I don't know.
Do you mind my asking: I very much understand poly in the cases where someone unexpectedly falls in love with a second person. But what is it that made you decide, as a conscious decision to seek out a second person with whom to fall in love? How do you see this enhancing your life? I know in some ways, the answer to that is 'obvious,' and yet I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

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Originally Posted by zampana View Post
I'm very conscious of what I'm asking from a woman, and hope/plan/wish that my new relationship(s) will have as much love and attention as my longer term one.
Can you spell out, in bullet points, 1) what exactly it is you're asking from a woman, and 2) what exactly you have to offer her in return.

For instance, are you asking her to enter into a potentially lifelong relationship while accepting clear boundaries on how far this relationship can go (no living together, no company parties together, no meeting your family ever, spending holidays alone, no children together, no mingling of finances, no supporting each other financially in buying a home or providing for retirement), or, are you asking her to accept that she may or may not have these things to look forward to with you, or are you asking her only to understand that these things are on the table just as with any other relationship with the only caveat being that it will be an unconventional 'marriage' in which you have two effective spouses?

What does 'as much love and attention as my longer term one' look like in real terms? Equal split of time? Living together?

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Originally Posted by zampana View Post
This is one of the big current struggles I'm having -- my partner is in the middle of these two, albeit long distance relationships, but they're both intense in their own ways and demand time and attention that is suddenly not available for me. Of course. Duh. Tricky though. Hopefully uncomfortable just because it's all so new and I'm rebooting everything I know about romantic relationships
My concern with this statement would be: how much of your decision to seek out a second person to love is about filling that hole that's left by your current girlfriend's absence?
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  #16  
Old 08-31-2013, 08:30 PM
zampana zampana is offline
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Originally Posted by Phlox View Post


It is no easier for me to find a woman for a relationship that it is a man.
<snip>

I am trying to patiently (kind of a problem, lol) keep myself open to the possibility of meeting her. I am posting on dating sites, and trying to get out more, as being around people increases the odds of actually meeting someone. In the meantime I am working on my life, pursuing things that interest me, and enjoying the time I have with my so (who is also actively helping me find someone-we have very similar tastes in women).
You sound very much in the same place I am. Thanks for this -- it's nice to know others can identify. And interesting that you experience the same resistance from many women. I wonder what it is, other than I guess the classic "this is what we know so this is what we're comfortable with." More and more I realize I need to stick to the poly community at least in these early days, if only because all this philosophy will already (in theory) be worked out. Shouldn't be too much of a problem in left-coast Vancouver, although it does limit me to dating from a much smaller pool. Who knows if there's anyone I'll be able to connect to who's already on the same trek.

But I'm with you -- keep myself open in all ways to lightning strikes, and until then work on my issues and try and be present with my SO as she struggles with the opposite problem - trying to time and emotion balance all her relationships!
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  #17  
Old 08-31-2013, 10:37 PM
zampana zampana is offline
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This is SO great that you'd ask -- I really appreciate it. I will caveat my answers with, I'm new at this, I'm not sure it's me, but I'm willing to look at a part of myself that I closed twenty years ago when I got married, because I love my wife, who has been and is as natural a poly person as I've ever met. It's a significant part of her that I was attracted to -- why, I'm not sure -- mother issues? Because I see myself in her? Because I knew at some point I'd have to face up to jealous issues? Because deep down I am this too? Still trying to work all this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
Do you mind my asking: I very much understand poly in the cases where someone unexpectedly falls in love with a second person. But what is it that made you decide, as a conscious decision to seek out a second person with whom to fall in love? How do you see this enhancing your life? I know in some ways, the answer to that is 'obvious,' and yet I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
In the past I've fallen in love with a couple different women, but I stopped those relationships from progressing because I was "married and monogamous." I wouldn't let myself go there, even though I wanted to. My SO has had the same experiences but has been much more open to taking it to the very edge -- basically getting as close as she can to someone without sleeping with them. I never trusted myself, so I pulled back early.

When my wife (I really hate saying that - my partner? how about W) fell for her latest man, I fortuitously read Sex at Dawn, which opened my eyes to the possibility of a poly life. We also have friends who've been in poly relationships for over 20 years. So those two things together, particularly recognizing W as someone who instinctively is this, motivated me to ask her to open the marriage so that I could explore the same things she was exploring, but in a way that would allow us to take any relationship we developed to its fullest experience -- if that included sex, then great, maybe it goes beyond sex, maybe it never includes sex, but it's allowing ourselves to become as close to another human being as we've been with each other. Does that make sense?

Now that she is in two romantic relationships, I'm very conscious of being the "guy at home while the wife has fun." Without going too deeply into life histories, there's been many situations of infidelity in my family, and how the men dealt with them has not been the best. W dating other men is my opportunity not only to be a grownup, to become more conscious, to go deeper, be more understanding and less possessive, but also do deal head on with deep emotional issues.

But I also want what she's experiencing. I want the thrill of having a new person look at me and find me hot and want me and want to be with me. I also feel the need to balance our relationship, particularly as more and more of her time is taken up with her other relationships. That may be a red flag -- I don't know. You can tell me. There's some of that, but at core, I love many people and want the opportunity to get as close to them as nature allows, without it jeopardizing the currently most important relationship in my life.


Quote:
Can you spell out, in bullet points, 1) what exactly it is you're asking from a woman, and 2) what exactly you have to offer her in return.

<snip>

What does 'as much love and attention as my longer term one' look like in real terms? Equal split of time? Living together?

My concern with this statement would be: how much of your decision to seek out a second person to love is about filling that hole that's left by your current girlfriend's absence?
Again wonderful questions that I haven't thought through, so thank you for asking!

First off, I don't want to go into a new relationship with a list of points that that person needs to hit. I just want to meet many different people and see who connects and who doesn't.

I those lovely new connections, whether they happen purely through conversation, or whether they go deeper. I miss the experience of getting to know someone new, deeply and fully. I want new friends. I want new and stimulating conversations, challenging and inspiring ideas, the chance to discover the map of a person's life.

If those relationships then develop into something deeper, emotional and physical, then I want to be open to experiencing them to their fullest extend. There's no way to know generally what that look like, because with each person it will be different, depending on where they are in life and what they want from me. If over time the relationships were to develop into being as deep and committed as that which I have with W, then yes, living together is a possibility, whether we do it under the same roof as W and our children, or having two homes ($$$ always being an issue too!), sharing time, whatever. I want to be open to all options, together with W if she and my other were to develop their own non-sexual (W so far is straight) relationship, or as some sort split time thing if they don't become friends.

We're not looking at add a third to our relationship. We're on our own trips, which we want to share the experience of together.

Again, early days, so I'm trying to take it a step at a time. Of course there has to be sync and balance with W, and it doesn't even need to be said, but I will accept W's relationships in however deeply they go.

I don't believe in the primary/secondary model -- every relationship deserves to be primary in the moments that its being experienced.

In practical terms, I have no idea how I'd make these sorts of things happen, and no idea how hard it might be for me to share W with another man as deeply as our relationship has become (particularly over the last few months). I know it will be hard, when it happens, but I love her and want for her all the good she can experience in life, with and without me. So far, her boyfriends are her boyfriends and I've very conscious of giving them their the space, listening when she wants to share, and trying my best not to fish for intimate details. I know that kind of thing comes from jealousy and fear of abandonment, and those are my issues to deal with.

And to your final point: yes, I have motivated this change because I love my wife and want to be with her for as long as we can be together. She needs other relationships, and I want to honor that, because I don't want to break up our family. I recognize her for the poly person she is.

I won't know if I'm poly in the same way/amount/at all, until I've run the full course of a second relationship, but it's worth it for me to find out. I feel like I have it in me, but that I also have a lot of baggage to get over before I can be fully comfortable with both her and my new relationships.

This has been great, because it's answering a lot of stuff about whether I'm even ready to connect with a new person. I still have a lot of work to do, so maybe rushing into things isn't such a good thing, and thus maybe the universe is holding me back/the women I've met so far are intuiting this to be the case.

Again, thanks so much for asking these questions. I know there's no right and wrong in this, and all this might and will change as we grow.

Love to hear your thoughts on this VERY LONG post!
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  #18  
Old 09-01-2013, 02:21 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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But I can't help but wonder if poly ultimately works better for women than men? Many, many men love the idea of a relationship to someone who won't ask them to move in and have babies, who just wants to have a good time and who will be fine with them continuing to see other people.

Maybe it's just the women I've been meeting, but I find the opposite to be true - most women, if they're available and looking, seem to want to know that there's a commitment, that the man they're going to invest in will be willing to take it to the next level or whatever.
The problem is they do not understand that there IS commitment in poly. As a polyamorist, one can take a relationship to whatever "levels" are possible - the only thing you cannot do in No. America is legally marry a second spouse. If you're not just fucking around and you want to develop relationships, you need to either check out the poly community in your area OR find a way to explain what poly is to women who have the wrong assumptions going on, and let them know that polyamory does not preclude commitment and satisfying, long-term loving partnerships.
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Last edited by nycindie; 09-01-2013 at 02:23 AM.
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  #19  
Old 10-14-2013, 11:22 PM
Phlox Phlox is offline
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try and be present with my SO as she struggles with the opposite problem - trying to time and emotion balance all her relationships!
Yes, my SO is experiencing the same thing.
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  #20  
Old 10-14-2013, 11:51 PM
Phlox Phlox is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
The problem is they do not understand that there IS commitment in poly. As a polyamorist, one can take a relationship to whatever "levels" are possible - the only thing you cannot do in No. America is legally marry a second spouse. If you're not just fucking around and you want to develop relationships, you need to either check out the poly community in your area OR find a way to explain what poly is to women who have the wrong assumptions going on, and let them know that polyamory does not preclude commitment and satisfying, long-term loving partnerships.
I agree.I think some of the misconception comes from fear due to bad relationship experiences the women have had in the past, and some of it is due to the fact that the term polyamory is a bit of an umbrella term, with the exact meaning of each relationship defined by the participants of that relationship.Women are also expected to comply with social mores, and are punished more often when they don't.Plus, some people are just plain wired for monogamy, and can't understand why someone would want to be involved in more than one intimate relationship.
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