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  #11  
Old 08-27-2013, 07:40 AM
london london is offline
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Seems perfectly clear that she understood sex with the op would be banned and instead of saying 'of course i am going to fuck the guy i'm engaged to. Go to hell', she agreed to those conditions. Making out she is some sort of abuse victim is delusional thinking of someone in total denial.
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2013, 09:43 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biamore View Post
"I can not do anything sexual with you because he would be upset and one of the conditions of me being here he made me promise I wouldn't have sex with any men when I came back home"
It's easy for people with good self-esteem and relatively healthy childhoods to say "of course she can tell that guy to go to hell." Unfortunately, I've got enough friends with poor self-esteem and fucked up daddy issues to know it's not always that simple.

Unless you were there when she made the agreement, how can you be dead certain you know the conditions under which it was made? There's got to be more going on in someone's head when they're willing to cut off their fiance of 11 years over some dude they just met. Don't respond based on what you would do in her shoes. She's not you.

She's living there now, that means she has some dependence on this guy. She said he would "be upset." I hear that as "he'll yell and scream at me." If merely causing someone to "be upset" were enough to determine her choices, what about biamore's upset at losing intimacy with his fiance of 11 years?

Red flag: she has conditions for being able to come home. Not "agreements" but "conditions." As in "you are only allowed to go home if..." How is that not fucked right up?

Look, I'm not saying "I know without a doubt that she is an abuse victim and everything she said and did is coerced." What I am saying is that none of you can possibly know beyond a shadow of doubt that she is free from any form of coercion or manipulation.

Which assumption is more dangerous? If you're all right, then the worst that can happen is they have an argument, she tells biamore that he's overreacting, and the discussion is over. Small consequence. But if I'm right and biamore breaks it off, then she's left without a support network to escape the situation. She feels abandoned and worthless, because even her cherished fiance is willing to throw her away with no resistance. Then the cliche "You can't leave me, no one else will want you, even your fiance didn't fight for you" carries that much more weight. Big consequence.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I really truly would prefer that biamore is just yesterday's news and she's moved on to greener pastures, rather than having her trapped in a coercive situation and not believing she has a way out. I'm sure even biamore would agree on that. But love means you don't give up on people when there's even the slightest chance that they need your help, and based on the evidence presented to me, there is at least the chance that she's not acting completely of her own free will. Honestly, it's more of a gut feeling than any black-and-white signs. But in 31 years, I've never once regretted trusting my gut.

Biamore, what does your gut say? After 11 years, you must have a good idea of her character and personality. Is this kind of thing consistent with her usual behaviour? Does she have a history of throwing away loved ones for no apparent reason? Conversely, does she have a childhood or relationship history that makes her vulnerable to manipulative people? Does she have a tendency to placate and do what people ask her to do, even if it's not what she really wants to do?

Heck, I'm a romantic at heart. She talks to biamore every day, sometimes for hours into the night. She came to visit him, cuddled up on the couch with him, only drawing the line at going to bed. She describes being with him as "coming home." Obviously she still has feelings for him. She's poly, he's poly, her new boyf is poly... so even if she's agreed to a closed relationship, what's the harm in fighting for his lady? Maybe it's desperate. Maybe it's pathetic. But maybe it's sweet. Maybe it's exactly what she's waiting for. Maybe she's testing him, seeing whether he really wants to be with her. As you pointed out, she can always tell him to go to hell!
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2013, 09:54 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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I agree with SchrodingersCat, it is worth making a stand, if it doesn't work it doesn't wok but it is worth a try.
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2013, 09:32 PM
monkeystyle monkeystyle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Seems perfectly clear that she understood sex with the op would be banned and instead of saying 'of course i am going to fuck the guy i'm engaged to. Go to hell', she agreed to those conditions. Making out she is some sort of abuse victim is delusional thinking of someone in total denial.
Agreed. While playing the 'she's not sure of herself' card is a popular sterotype, I think taking people at face value and moving on with life is a lot easier than questioning the validity of the message. These are adults living their lives, regardless of the semantics of words. The choices are made. Why create drama for the sake of challenging a disagreeable answer?
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