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Old 07-29-2013, 02:48 AM
ConfusedMonoCouple ConfusedMonoCouple is offline
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Default Predator Poly Couples

My wife and I are fairly sexually conservative people in practice. In ideology, not as much, but we've never really felt a void in our sex life; with the exception of an occasional, "We really should be having sex more for people our age."

Anyways, the other night went out with a couple we have been friends with a short while (only hung out a few times but we really liked them). Long story short.. we ended up all sleeping together. Its been hell on our marriage. We weren't ready. The guy fucked my wife right in front of me without asking her or me. She wasn't fighting him but... we never really understood what was happening. We were black out drunk so we're only piecing together what happened. It was so strange. He asked me if my wife and I were interested at the bar and I said yeah, maybe, but we'll definitely have to talk about it sober. When the bar closed his wife wanted all of us to take off with two other guys that were poly and I said no way, my wife and I aren't poly (and definitely not ready for whatever would go on there). Her husband told her no, he had to get up early the next day, they should just come stay at our house like they'd planned.

It was so strange how it happened. We got home and made drinks and popcorn, and we were just hanging out the in the kitchen. His wife was crazy but seemed really drunk so my wife and I were just kind of like "Whoa, a wild woman." Shrugged it off. I suggested we go into the TV room to do karaoke. Just eat popcorn and do karaoke. Thats the plan. His wife starts getting wild, and somehow she and my wife start kissing (kissing another woman is the "craziest" thing I've ever seen my wife do as far as getting wild at a party goes). Next they're really starting to go at it and as far as I'm concerned its hot... well a lot of things happened from there on out but at the end of the night her husband fucked my wife. In front of me. I was devastated but it was all so confusing, I thought it was what she wanted.

Its a couple days later and we're both really fucking devastated and confused. We thought we'd made all these decisions but when we think back its like they'd set it up to make it seem that way. In reality we resisted just about every step of the way but things kept moving forward. The whole night my wife and I thought the other wanted what was happening to happen but that was never true. We're normally really good communicators and we just don't understand how it could've happened.

I posted my story of heartbreak to another website, solo. My wife and I took a while to sort through the fog and come back together, but we are. I'm writing this from my point of view but its from both of us. She is sitting next to me. Anyways someone from the other website said they think this couple were predators. That it wasn't a true poly experience, and these people weren't our friends and knew what they were doing. That they methodically manipulated us and exploited us.

I guess our question is, what is your experience with predator couples? What are they like? And do you think that may be what happened to us? If you want more details we can give them to you.

P.S. We are going to a counselor tomorrow by the way. In case you were worried about our marriage, we are too and we're addressing it.
  #2  
Old 07-29-2013, 03:53 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Oh my god, I am so sorry this happened to you. What they did is not polyamory. It sounds like a date rape situation. They took advantage of your drunken state and got what they wanted. Yes, they definitely sound like predators. It's quite unbelievable and makes me angry that there are people like that out there.

Did his wife fuck you, too, or was it all focused on your wife? Did he use a condom, at least? If not, or if you can't remember, get tested for STIs, I hate to say.

I think getting some counseling is a wise next step to take. I would also say that you both need to watch your drinking and protect yourselves more in that kind of situation - I know a couple who takes turns between them to be the designated driver. Egad, I really don't know what else to say. I am so sorry.
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  #3  
Old 07-29-2013, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedMonoCouple View Post
We were black out drunk so we're only piecing together what happened.
So is getting black out drunk something that you think was a good decision? Or, did they drug you or somehow coerce you into drinking so much that you lost basic mental function?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedMonoCouple View Post
I was devastated but it was all so confusing, I thought it was what she wanted.
If you thought she was into it, doesn't it seem reasonable that he thought the same thing? Why would he have more insight into the subtleties of your wifes expression than you?

Adding to that, he was having sex with this woman right in front of her apparently agreeable husband. That is a whole lot of consent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedMonoCouple View Post
We're normally really good communicators and we just don't understand how it could've happened.
Could the fact that you were black out drunk have something to do with it?

Personally I think it's dangerous to hook up with people I don't know very well when they seem super drunk. I mean, I'm not a mind reader and I don't carry around a breathalizer so there isn't exactly a hard and fast rule but I try to avoid doing that. Mainly because I don't want to fall victim to someone who looks back with 20/20 hindsight and realizes that it was a mistake and then calls me a predator.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedMonoCouple View Post
And do you think that may be what happened to us?
Maybe, it's possible. However, unless there was some kind of underhanded manipulation going on which you haven't described here I would say that you guys made a decision that you regret... nothing more.

If I were to make a recommendation to you, I would say to be a bit more responsible with your drinking. Your wife got blackout drunk and had sex with someone right in front of you. If that bothers you... maybe you guys should avoid getting so drunk that you start making decisions you are likely to regret.
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  #4  
Old 07-29-2013, 04:14 AM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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OMG! This is not poly. Polymory means multiple loves - not take advantage of a drunken couple. I am so sorry. That truly sucks.

Seeing a counselor is an excellent idea. In the meantime though, it is important that you focus on the fact that neither of you is at fault for what happened. The fact that this happened is no reflection on your marriage, your love for each other, or the strength of your bond.

You were taken advantage of by people you thought you could trust. While I know it psychologically feels different because of the sexual aspect, what happened to you is much like being in a car accident due to a reckless driver. If you two were traumatized in a car wreck for which neither of you were responsible, you wouldn't worry that your marriage was in jeopardy. You wouldn't question your love for one another or your bond. Do not do a mindfuck on yourself, and allow yourself to question these things.

Take care.
  #5  
Old 07-29-2013, 04:20 AM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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Marcus does make an excellent point. Perhaps not predators, but equally as drunk and not able to make sound judgements either.

In that case, just a huge misunderstanding. I know that sounds like a blasť explanation for the trauma you are feeling, but equally as likely.

And still not a good reason to have doubts about the strength of your marriage.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:45 AM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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I read ConfusedMonoCouple's story on reddit and there was more to it than he posted here (some of those details he offered to reveal if anyone asked). I wouldn't call the other couple predatory based on what I've read there or here, and I think that's a really dangerous accusation to make without further evidence. Everyone was drunk, and though the reddit version didn't say much about resisting, it DID say that the other woman got the other guy out of there once she realized through her drunken haze that CMC wasn't okay. As he said, he thought it was hot when his wife was getting down with the woman, and he neglected to tell folks here that he realized that his wife was having sex with the guy after all four of them had moved into the bedroom and he was involved with the other woman. Yeah, it messed him up, he should have stood up for himself more when he realized he wasn't okay with what was happening, they should have talked about it before anything happened, etc. but no one was a predator.

If anything, this is one more case of "I'm cool with my wife being with another woman but not with a man".
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2013, 06:44 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default Jumping into sexual situations

will usually cause problems unless you are single. Alcohol and drugs often cause the same problems and more.

Alcohol and beginning non-monogamy are two things that might not mix well, if you need alcohol to ease the tension of talking about or engaging in sex it is a good indication you might not be able to handle it as well as you think you can.

If you require alcohol to ease the tension of just being friends, as in the traditionally accepted boundaries of friendship which do not include sex , you might have some underlying sense of yourself that might not even be accurate. Society seem to have implanted an emotionally unhealthy framework on some people's minds

I can't say whether or not the situation would be predatory, and as crazy as it sounds, some people do not see things as black and white as it's not like trying to leave a store without paying for something is considered stealing, it isn't even like borrowing without asking can be considered stealing. It is my belief that if a person frequently behaves in ways that are right next to the line that distinguishes right from wrong, it is more difficult to find them innocent even though the one step over the line may have been completely unintentional


What I will say though, if you continue venturing into non-monogamy, you will find that more experienced people will may be flirty and touchy, but before they actually do anything they do ask, specifically

May I kiss you *your name*

Yes even for something as innocent as a kiss, and just because they wait for you to say yes to kiss you, they still ask

May I *whatever the act* you *your name*

some people believe that is lame, but unless you don't give a shit about other's emotions or it is your first experience and you don't know how often people talk a big game or claim, that their partner gives them permission and you realize the message conveyed to you wasn't entirely accurate, you will eventually begin to recognize those who might not be who they say they are.

Some people even find it highly erotica to ask or wait until they say yes, they would like you to do whatever it is they are asking.

and if you practice that with the people you hang out with, you are much more likely to not create situations where you are no longer friends, as it's been my experience that sometimes people who you thought were completely onboard, were not, and requiring explicit permission often leaves very little room for them to not be accountable.

many people go through their entire lives with a significant amount of denial in everything they do and it definitely affects themselves and those around them. It is crazy how a something as simple as not holding yourself accountable can have the same effect on a person's distorted perception of reality as going through the majority of their life drunk or buzzed.

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 07-29-2013 at 10:38 AM. Reason: tippo
  #8  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:00 AM
ConfusedMonoCouple ConfusedMonoCouple is offline
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To the person from reddit. There were more things we began to remember, and my wife began to remember. Things that weren't in the reddit post. Things that would take too long to explain. I've decided it doesn't matter if they are true for me and my wife, because I forgive her no matter what. I just wondered if what they did was normal.

There is a reason they didn't talk about what was about to happen and he didn't ask my wife if and I if we were doing ok. there is a reason he came to my house instead of going to that other house, just an hour after I told him we weren't ready. He already knew what he wanted. There is a reason his wife told my wife it'll be "more fun" to stay on the couch when she asked to go to the back room when she tried to take her bra off. There a reason his wife "fell" on the floor, and didn't say "lets join the men." There is a reason she "fell" onto me and her husband touched no one. There is a reason she said "the floor is too hard can we go to the bedroom," and not "lets go to the bedroom and swap." There is a reason she didn't ask my wife if it was ok for her to suck my dick. We were weak. I'll admit it. We didn't know what to do. My wife followed his wifes lead. There was a reason he didn't ask me or my wife if it was ok to have sex. Its because we would've said no. Its because it would've make us look each other in the eyes and ask ourselves and each other, "do we want to do this?" Because we would've said FUCK NO! We didn't need this shit. We didn't want this shit. Our marriage was fine. Its because they knew we were inexperienced and we would get spooked easy. Its because they knew that we knew we didn't know what this all meant. We didn't know if it meant having sex with our spouse next to each other, we didn't know if it meant touching only, we didn't know if it meant oral only, we didn't know if it someone else fucking our spouse. In fact, we never ever ever imagined it meant someone fucking our significant other. Ever. Someday, maybe, if we were interested, but we were just curious.

This happened. I know because I did it in high school and college and used to justify it the same way. I'd know someone would have never fucked me if they were sober, and that they didn't really want to do what I wanted to do. And they resisted, said out loud they didn't want to. And I just said, "Nothings gonna happen I just wanna snuggle." Then you start kissing her neck, feeling around. Try to get them excited without them even realizing it. Then you fuck them even though you knew they never wanted to, you just knew you could get them to do it. And I justified it the same way some of you do. Well you know what to all of you who say my wife just got drunk and fucked someone next to me? Fuck you! Go ahead and keep ruining lives if you want, and justifying it with, "well they should've stopped me." You're a piece of shit and you know it just beneath the surface.

Also, I got up and went to the bathroom once. When I came back the man was facefucking my wife while his wife went down on her. He stopped when I came in. I asked her about it. She said "No no. I was just too drunk. I was doing it wrong, being clumsy. I couldn't hold myself up." I told her what I saw and she remembered. He was gagging her. She was tried pushing him away but didn't stop until I re-entered. And he started as soon as I left the room. She started to cry. She was forced to finish the first blowjob she ever gave. She's not all that comfortable with them and she can't have your hands on her head. She came to me when I came back in, we don't know how we got separated again but there is no doubt in our mind, NO DOUBT, that the people in control had to do with it. He hopped up and started face fucking her as soon as I left the room. He was gagging her. Why? Because at that moment he could. Why my wife refused to believe that happened? I don't fucking know. Its kind of terrifying. Maybe she couldn't accept that he was actually being as abusive and exploitive as he was and what that meant about the fuck they had. But she hates that man very much. She may have it worse than me. Shes very confused. fuck this. so much pain. both of us. we are ruined. wrecked. dead. im sure the mod will stop this. i wrote it for myself anyways.
  #9  
Old 07-29-2013, 09:09 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Confused, I accept that you feel that you are ruined and wrecked, your pain comes through in your writing very well and I am sorry for it but please do not take the posts asking for you and your wife to recognise that it might have appeared consensual to the other couple (especially considering all four of you were legless) as condoning you and your wife being abused (it seems to be skimming the line of date rape and I am uncomfortable with labelling it thus).

I don't 'want' you to feel bad, I don't 'want' to hurt you but the fact is, you went to the toilet you returned, saw something that made you uncomfortable and you allowed the whole sex session to continue does say something about consent. You may regret that, you may think you were manipulated and they were predatory (I would agree) but do not react hysterically (and I mean that in the old fashioned sense) over it.
Just take care of each other, process and communicate and avoid over drinking like that in future.

btw, I know others have said it already but I want to again say, this is NOT Polyamory.
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:12 AM
graviton graviton is offline
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I feel bad for you guys but I agree, you were all sloppy drunk. Don't expect higher standards of culpability from them that you don't appear to have for yourselves. Chalk it up as a mistake and move on. Considering what you have said about your college date rape stories I would also chalk it up to karma. Karmas a bitch and you just got slapped in the face by it.
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