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Old 07-11-2013, 05:34 AM
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Arabella Arabella is offline
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Post Not wanting to micromanage... but...

Minor struggle here, looking for opinions from strangers on the interwebz.

The hubby just ended a relationship with a woman I call D1. It was short and sweet, and burned out quickly, with her citing physical proximity and ability to get away from her two kids enough, and him struggling with her back and forth emotional instability. He's now interested in a woman I call D2, and is eager to jump right into that one, days after he ended it with D1.

Now, I am by nature a control... advocate? I don't wanna say freak. What I mean by this is that I'm very super-conscious of trying not to interfere in my husband's relationships. We got off to a rocky start in poly (who doesn't, really?) when he wanted (and I briefly gave him) veto power over the physical intimacy aspect to my relationship with my secondary, Mr. C. Since then, we've renegotiated boundaries/conditions/whathaveyou, and we realize that it's not right for either of us to demand/wield that kind of power and interference. So now, I kinda... well, I have issues with these two women that he's dated and will date.

The thing is, they're married, and cheating. Their husbands do not know and definitely would not approve of them sleeping with my husband. D1 said she had "tried" to talk to her husband about opening their marriage but he won't talk about it with her. That's not ploy to me, and that wouldn't be okay with me. And while DH felt uncomfortable with that, he still found it acceptable to the point where they went on a few dates and slept together, and even started saying "I love you," in text (and then broke up two weeks later. )

The problem I have with them being married largely has to do with safety. The way I see it, if they're cheating on their husbands, then it's slightly more likely that the husbands are cheating on them, making sexual activity with them a big risk. At the very least, it clearly shows that they don't communicate about these things, and that puts me at a big risk. I told Dear Hubby this, and only said that if he was going to engage in physical activity with them, I would refrain from having unprotected sex with him until he got tested (after each time.) Since this was not acceptable for him, he got angry with me for effectively controlling his relationship. I'd like to say that it wasn't the case, but... well... he makes his own decisions, he's a grown man.

D2, the woman he's looking to date now, is also married, and her husband also doesn't know and would be devastated if he found out. In addition to the safety of my sexual health, I also don't want an angry husband showing up on my doorstep one with a semi-automatic while I'm with our son, demanding to find out where my husband is; the man who's sleeping with his wife. I bring these things up to the Dear Hubby (DH), and he considers them and "thinks" about it, but it didn't seem to stop him last time and he dated D1 anyway. I have a feeling he's going to do the same with D2.
~~~~~~~~

I don't want to tell him who he can and cannot date. I know I can only respond accordingly with what fits my needs when he makes these choices that make me uncomfortable. But... what do I do if he dates her anyway, and I seriously am worried about Angry Husband on my Doorstep? I so much wish the hubby shared the same morals as I do about not being a homewrecker, but I've BTDT before, and he's had precious little relationship experience before me anyway, so this is all new to him. I feel like I'm raining on his parade when I say that every woman that takes an interest in him I want to veto (even though we don't do that) because I'm worried about the safety and health of the family. In our marriage in general areas, I've often been the one to shut his ideas down quickly because they don't seem practical to me, and I'm really working on not doing that and giving them more consideration.

So what do I do here, besides what I already have done, which is make my concerns known? I don't want him dating D2, especially if her husband doesn't know/approve. He asked her if she thinks she'd ever discuss this with her husband in the future and she said it's not likely, and "trust me, he'd never find out anyway." Famous last words, if you ask me. I don't feel right in saying no, you cannot date this woman or something like, if you do, then we're getting a divorce, but... I am definitely not comfortable with this. However, I love so much that he actually seems happy, and I am really enjoying being his best friend again, discussing these things with him... I hate to give that up.

Thoughts, please?
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~Arabella's Aria~

Arabella - Me, 34, female
DH - Arabella's Husband, 34, male
~
Mr. C. - Arabella's boyfriend, 33, male, married to E
E - Mr. C's wife, 33, female
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M - Arabella's Boyfriend, 45, male
D2 - DH's girlfriend, 26, female

Last edited by Arabella; 07-11-2013 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:13 AM
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nancyfore nancyfore is offline
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Other than the obvious not being very moral, I always think of the scenario of what happens when there are feelings involved between the cheater and the enabler, and the cheated on spouse finds out and offers an ultimatum? The choose him/her or me? Not many say "hasta la vista" to the spouse and leave... That leaves the enabler out in the cold holding their feelings in their hand and feeling lost...

It's also hard to live down the nic name of "home wrecker" in some cases, or small towns...

and I am not personally fond of being anyone's "dirty little secret".. so the secrecy and the inability to go out together (even just for coffee) would not be much fun.

True story: We live in a small town, and hour away from a fairly large city. There was a couple here whose husband had cheated on the wife for some 6 years and the "other woman" lived in the town an hour away. One day the wife took the daughter to the doctor while the husband was supposed to be "out of town". Wife and daughter pull up to a stop light, daughter looks into the car next to them, and see's dear old dad and girlfriend... result, is divorce, split family, house in repo, etc, etc..

there is very little chance that it could go on for ever without a slip up somewhere...
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:19 AM
london london is offline
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Hmm, one of the guys I am seeing dates cheating women. He feels that he does a risk assessment to see how likely it is to blow up and to be fair, the women he dates are relatively low risk in that respect. However, right now, we share no practical entanglements; if a jealous, angry husband comes and smashes his windows, they are his windows. I have made it clear that if I had a partner that I was significantly entangled with, perhaps living together, for instance, I would put a rule/boundary in place that meant we didn't get involved with cheaters because that would be our windows being smashed, not just my partner's. He agrees with the logic in that. So basically, what I am saying is that it would be "against the rules" for my husband to be dating a cheater. I might overlook a random shag where they share next to no personal information, but as for an ongoing relationship, it's too risky that their shit will affect me and mine.

I do also know, however, that for the non monogamous male, excluding cheaters does minimise your dating pool quite significantly. I get that it might suck, but I'm afraid they would have to sacrifice that if they wanted that level of relationship with me.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabella View Post
I told Dear Hubby this, and only said that if he was going to engage in physical activity with them, I would refrain from having unprotected sex with him until he got tested (after each time.) Since this was not acceptable for him, he got angry with me for effectively controlling his relationship.
You deciding who you are and are not going to have unprotected sex with is not making decisions for someone else. That's your body, you have exclusive authority over what is done with it.

He is wrong on this part. Totally, and completely wrong. Do what you want with your body and tell everyone around you they can deal with it or go fuck themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabella View Post
I also don't want an angry husband showing up on my doorstep one with a semi-automatic
If you actually have concern for your safety (like being murdered by a jilted husband) then you are a fool if you do not act on it. And by act on it I mean tell your husband you will not live under the terror of future violence and will leave if he has such low regard for your safety. "But he seems so happy" is not a good enough reason for you to allow yourself to be put in danger of having your door kicked in and your head blown off.

That is to say, if this is a real fear of physical harm. Are you scared for your life or is it not a real issue and your husbands temporary happiness is more important?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabella View Post
I don't want him dating D2, especially if her husband doesn't know/approve.
What are the other reasons for your not wanting him to date her?
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:56 PM
london london is offline
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Quote:
I told Dear Hubby this, and only said that if he was going to engage in physical activity with them, I would refrain from having unprotected sex with him until he got tested (after each time.)
Ok, I agree that it's your body, your choice, but I don't understand the scientific logic in this. To me, it's as if you are saying that cheaters are inherently dirty. The logical thing would be that a cheater would be more adamant about not bringing home anything that would reveal their cheating, such as an std, or a baby. If your husband sleeps with them with a condom, he would be at no more risk than he would sleeping with someone like me who is openly and ethically non monogamous. The reason why this troubles me is because I have found that wives often discriminate against me simply because I have casual sexual relationships and they don't. To be honest, I think it's just a way for them to put another obstacle in the way of their husband having other relationships. I completely get the other reasons why you wouldn't want your husband to date a cheater, but saying that they are inherently more of an std hazard than anyone else who isn't monogamous simply isn't true.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:39 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is offline
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Hi Arabella

I understand where you are coming from on this. My GF and I differ in our opinions, or at least, we have done in the past, regarding dating married men/women.

I used to vehemently disagree with the idea. In fact, I can't stand cheating or lying of any kind. My girlfriend, however, sees a different side of the story and it gave me pause for thought. The way she sees it, she actually sometimes feels compassion for the 'cheater' - she feels that sometimes, people are trapped, because they love their spouse dearly, but just cannot get what they need. Be that sex, kink, polyamory, or something else. I personally feel that this is cowardly... but... that being said, I've been involved with women online who are married and their husbands don't know... with the caveat that we don't move past the virtual reality - we don't call, video, or meet in person. Of course, once I got close to those two women, the temptation to take it further was quite large. But, so far, I haven't been there.

Personally... I think that you should leave it to your husband to decide. There are many downfalls (morality not being the least of them).... but there can be upsides.... married people can tend to 'fit' more easily, if he doesn't want to be in a situation where he ends up with a second primary... and so forth...

As for how you treat your sexual health; I think it's important to stick to your guns about what you feel. However, to be honest, I tend to feel more cautious when I meet a woman who is openly poly and has many partners, who also have partners, etc, than if I think of a monogamously married woman sleeping with both me and her husband.

It's highly unlikely that an angry husband will come to your door... and if this is one of your fears, perhaps you and your hubby can set strict guidelines to prevent this happening - for example, that he never gives out your address or has these women over at your house... and so on...

Whilst I don't think he is being morally attractive, I do think that he needs to learn the lesson the hard way. Only once we have experienced something do we actually often find ourselves able to understand what we put another person through. But, let's say that one day you meet someone amazing and they have an oppressive spouse whom they love, they feel trapped, and things aren't so black and white. It's a tough one. But ultimately, if it were me, I'd let my partner make their own ethical decisions. It is his head that they will rest on.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:43 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is online now
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Please tell me you are not having unprotected sex with him.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:01 PM
london london is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Please tell me you are not having unprotected sex with him.
Why? What would be wrong with that?
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:12 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is online now
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He threw a bit of a fit when the op brought up std testing.

He has no problem being involved in a deceitful situation. Plus who knows what diseases these women could carry. Just because he isn't having piv sex doesn't mean he isn't getting something from these women. STD can be transmitted orally too. Highly doubt he and his partners are using an oral dam.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:21 PM
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I think he may have thrown a fit because she asked him to have an std test every time he has sex with a cheating woman. That isn't reasonable, logical, rational or very sex positive. Him using a barrier method with a cheating woman is no different from him using a barrier method with someone who is ethically non monogamous. In fact, you can fuck more in an ethically non monogamous relationship because you don't have to creep around. I think this idea of cheating women being more risky is more about discriminating against the promiscuous than actual science.
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