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  #21  
Old 06-14-2013, 02:13 AM
DFWPolyGuy DFWPolyGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Wow. Compared to folks new to this kind of situation, you are WAY ahead of the game. You've identified that you are having an emotional response which is conflicting with what you know to be true about reality.
Thank you for that! Feels good, man.

And thank you to the rest of the group for the advice. I will plan some fun things for me and the boys (6 and 3 BTW) and maybe have one of my guy friends over for drinks or something and hope for the best! I like the idea of a specific check in time, so I don't have to constantly think about WHEN she will check in. Probably less stress for her too. I'm sort of relieved to know that this isn't easy for most people...I was beginning to question my poly-skills. It was fairly easy to conquer my fear of loss, etc when they first started this, so my aversion to the overnight thing kind of caught me by surprise.

I'm not a solitary type of person. I love being around other people, so I never really look forward to ANY alone time, as odd as that may sound. J on the other hand LOVES it, so the good news is that when the shoe is on the other foot, she will be much less of a wreck than me, hopefully.

Gala - I have actually read those links before and just want to say that you are a big help already and don't even know it. The Poly Hell post was especially helpful in explaining how I was feeling about L "invading" my life. J is actually pretty good about respecting our "connecting" time and we have begun to incorporate before/after care since reading your post on that a month ago.

As for the advice about J's "working on it", I actually read that post to her last night and she agreed to hurry it up. Which brings us to trying to figure out the best way to meet people. I figure online is pretty much the number one option. So, which sites are good?

We have friends on Kassidie and they say they have met some cool people there. Any other suggestions from experience?

We just really want to meet others like us that we (or I or she) might click with. If nothing else, it would be nice to have friends that understand us, as my current friends think I'm totally insane for "allowing" my wife to have a boyfriend. It would be kind of funny if it weren't so tragic.
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2013, 02:00 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Glad to be of some help then.

No online advice - I like fishing in known waters. I meet people in RL from things/places I already do. Having a dating partner who's style/tastes run along similar lines ups the compatible a bit.

Quote:
We just really want to meet others like us that we (or I or she) might click with. If nothing else, it would be nice to have friends that understand us, as my current friends think I'm totally insane for "allowing" my wife to have a boyfriend. It would be kind of funny if it weren't so tragic.
Perhaps you want to build the friend support base then? To be there to support you through the ups and downs of dating?

Galagirl
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  #23  
Old 06-14-2013, 03:56 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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OK Cupid worked for me. I met my gf (4 1/2 years into relationship), and bf (1 1/2 years relationship) there. They were both above 90% matches with me there, and it's been wonderful.

I also met some fun people to date for a while, some one night stands, and then there were 100s of arseholes to whom I never bothered responding.

Back in '99 when my ex h and I first "opened up," he was OK with a 3some, me getting a gf and him getting the same gf. He didnt want me to consider getting a bf. Even though I pointed out the hypocrisy of the one penis policy, he stood by it til the gf he found concurred. (One more reason I broke up with him, but that's another rant.)

So, your wife has a one vagina policy... ugh.
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  #24  
Old 06-14-2013, 06:54 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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I judge relationships based on an ownership paradigm unfavorably (except for agreed-upon D/s ones).
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  #25  
Old 06-23-2013, 05:01 PM
DFWPolyGuy DFWPolyGuy is offline
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Okay, so here's a new one:

L is over this weekend visiting J and I. Since my last post we have talked a LOT about their need to be alone together and I agreed that I would take our 2 kids out or most of the day on Saturday, leaving them about 5 hours of alone time. And also she would go on a weekend getaway with him next month.

I asked that while the three of us are together (like in the same space) that she not completely get lost in him for extended periods of time. I get that the NRE thing is super strong + they don't see each other but once a month, but all I'm really asking for is that I don't end up sitting on the couch playing candy crush while they make out for an hour.

Which is EXACTLY what happened on Friday night. Basically, as soon as our kids were in bed, she sat in his lap and they kissed for an hour while I tried to occupy myself around the house doing other things. After a while, I sat down near them and tried to start a conversation, you know as if to say "hey, I'm still here." I don't expect her to jump up and come over to me, but I just felt like a complete tool hanging out while they do their thing. With other partners, she and I ALWAYS pay attention to one another while we are all in the same space. With L, though, it's like she's in a alternate reality.

So I decided that I should just leave for the evening. I grab my keys and then she's like "oh shit, what's going on". I calmly explained that it was plainly obvious I wasn't needed or wanted at this particular time, and that I felt awkward just fiddling around the house. L said he felt awkward too. And J kind of looked torn and was like "i don't know if this is a good idea". I told her that I wasn't going to pretend to not be annoyed at being ignored and she apologized for ignoring me but admitted that she couldn't help herself. I said something like, that is exactly the problem, you can't control it, so I'm going to take myself out of the situation. I left and met up with some friends at a bar...

At this point it's about 12:00 and she texts me and says she "feels bad". I tell her it's fine, go have fun, and text me when you go to bed.

Then at 2:00AM she starts freaking out, asking me where I am, what I'm doing, she's worried, etc. I call, and she says something like "Oh my God, please come home, I feel terrible and I've been worrying about you and..." then she starts giggling...like he's messing around with her or something...that was it.

I mean I would NEVER have let her leave the house if the shoe was on the other foot. Then, if she did leave, I CERTAINLY would have called to make sure she really was comfortable and we were ok. But I mean please, I was gone for 2 hours in the middle of the night, she had no idea where I was, and only after they got done having sex and were ready for bed did she try to reach out. Then, it just seemed contrived, with the giggling and whatnot.

Needless to say when I got home it was a shit-show. I was hammered (yes a TERRIBLE idea). And she wanted to talk about what was wrong (even though I really tried to assure her that having this discussion while I was drunk was a bad idea). I'm not going to go into the details, but in the end she apologized for ignoring me and I apologized for getting trashed.

The next day I took my kids out for the day, but before I left I told her that, given everything that happened the night before, I would really appreciate some affection when I got home. I explained it like this: if I can get some positive re-enforcement that leaving the two of you alone makes you happy and you appreciate me, some kisses, some snuggling, etc. then this will help me get more comfortable and WANT to give you that time. She agrees and I go about my day.

When I get home, she goes and takes a nap, then we take our boys to their baseball game. At the game, I begin to have an anxiety attack (I get those sometimes when I'm stressed). She is concerned, but I go home and take some meds while she takes the boys to the after game party.

When she returns, I feel much better and pull her close to me to snuggle in my lap. L is taking a nap at this point in our bedroom. After J and I snuggle for a minute, she says she wants to go wake L up, and leaves.

They are in the bedroom for 10 minutes or so.

Okay, so now I'm like GOOD GOD, what the hell? I explicitly state my needs and she agrees that they are reasonable and doable. Then, at the first opportunity the blinders go back on and I'm left alone again. I decide just to deal with it and start getting the kids ready for bed. She can tell I'm upset (she's good at reading me) and I'm like, "listen, there is nothing I can say or do to change this. It's my problem and my emotions that are causing this and it is clear that I have to figure our how to change myself." She says she is doing the best she can do, but feels confused and at her wits end. We agree that when the three of us are together, I will squeeze her hand and say "here I am" when I need her to pay a little attention to me. (which makes me feel like an idiot BTW).

We proceed to have a nice dinner and fall asleep.

This morning, it's sexy time...we are all in the bed and start messing around (YES!). The kids get up and need attention, so I tell L and J that I will go take care of them and leave the lovebirds to themselves. J says okay and L says "No, come on back whenever." So I say, "we'll see". And close the door behind me. I get the kids going with breakfast and whatnot, and I'm super horny at this point, so I decide to join the activity already in progress back in the bedroom. They are having sex when I come in and quickly stop (they thought I was one of the kids). I apologize for startling them and say well, let's get back to it. J informs me that L is already done, but she hasn't O'd yet. We take care of her, and then it's my turn. The kids start getting restless, and L (being a really nice guy here) leaves us alone while he tends to the kiddos.

At this point I don't see any condoms around, so I ask J what happened. She tells me that my interruption ruined it for him. She is visibly upset with me at this point. I tell her I'm done being the bad guy and I get up and get dressed.

Now they are going to lunch together (at my behest). I've come to the conclusion that the only thing to do is remove myself from the situation. It's obvious that I'm the only one that enjoys our "threesome" time (in and out of the bedroom) and my presence just causes strife between the two of them. I feel like I've ruined their weekend. I feel like an asshole (even though it's unintentional) and I can't stand being the reason they aren't happy.

I've decided that we should not spend much time together as a group. J and L should either do overnights in hotels or at home without me.

Am I right? Any thoughts? Is this Polyhell?

Thanks in advance.
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  #26  
Old 06-23-2013, 05:31 PM
DFWPolyGuy DFWPolyGuy is offline
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Also, I'm angry that they don't want the same relationship I want...I think this goes to the root of the issue. I want a threesome with some alone time for them on the side. They want a twosome with some time with me.

I've come to terms with that BUT the time with me is REALLY time for the two of them while I pick up the living room, fart around on the internet, and generally try to disappear into the woodwork.

Do I have a right to be upset about that? Am I being a bad primary and unsupportive?
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  #27  
Old 06-23-2013, 05:51 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFWPolyGuy View Post
Okay, so here's a new one:

L is over this weekend visiting J and I. Since my last post we have talked a LOT about their need to be alone together and I agreed that I would take our 2 kids out or most of the day on Saturday, leaving them about 5 hours of alone time. And also she would go on a weekend getaway with him next month.

I asked that while the three of us are together (like in the same space) that she not completely get lost in him for extended periods of time...

Which is EXACTLY what happened on Friday night. Basically, as soon as our kids were in bed, she sat in his lap and they kissed for an hour while I tried to occupy myself around the house doing other things.
This was after you'd already had the kids out so they could have those 5 hours alone?

Quote:
After a while, I sat down near them and tried to start a conversation, you know as if to say "hey, I'm still here." I don't expect her to jump up and come over to me, but I just felt like a complete tool hanging out while they do their thing. With other partners, she and I ALWAYS pay attention to one another while we are all in the same space. With L, though, it's like she's in a alternate reality.
Well since you come from a swinger mentality, I can see how this is new to you. Seems to be swinging is based a lot on "sharing," voyeurism, exhibitionism. Now you've got a full on romantic thing going on, her and him, and they are, as the saying goes, lost in each other.

Quote:
So I decided that I should just leave for the evening.
This was one solution. Tho it seems you made it under duress.

Quote:
I grab my keys and then she's like "oh shit, what's going on". I calmly explained that it was plainly obvious I wasn't needed or wanted at this particular time, and that I felt awkward just fiddling around the house. L said he felt awkward too. And J kind of looked torn and was like "i don't know if this is a good idea". I told her that I wasn't going to pretend to not be annoyed at being ignored and she apologized for ignoring me but admitted that she couldn't help herself. I said something like, that is exactly the problem, you can't control it, so I'm going to take myself out of the situation. I left and met up with some friends at a bar...
Uh oh...

Quote:
At this point it's about 12:00 and she texts me and says she "feels bad". I tell her it's fine, go have fun, and text me when you go to bed.

Then at 2:00AM she starts freaking out, asking me where I am, what I'm doing, she's worried, etc. I call, and she says something like "Oh my God, please come home, I feel terrible and I've been worrying about you and..." then she starts giggling...like he's messing around with her or something...that was it.
OK, that's it. It's one thing to have NRE, it's something else to be dissing your primary. Not good.

Quote:
...she apologized for ignoring me and I apologized for getting trashed.
Good.

Quote:
The next day I took my kids out for the day,
Oh, so they had to wait til the day after he arrived to have alone time...
No wonder they couldnt keep their hands off each other. But still, you expected "attention" after an hour of them cuddling and then had a hissy fit and got hammered when you didn't get it.

I blame BoringGuy for recommending drinking.

Quote:
but before I left I told her that, given everything that happened the night before, I would really appreciate some affection when I got home. I explained it like this: if I can get some positive re-enforcement that leaving the two of you alone makes you happy and you appreciate me, some kisses, some snuggling, etc. then this will help me get more comfortable and WANT to give you that time. She agrees... I feel much better and pull her close to me to snuggle in my lap. L is taking a nap at this point in our bedroom. After J and I snuggle for a minute, she says she wants to go wake L up, and leaves.

They are in the bedroom for 10 minutes or so.

Okay, so now I'm like GOOD GOD, what the hell?
Yeah, that was pretty rude.

Quote:
I explicitly state my needs and she agrees that they are reasonable and doable. Then, at the first opportunity the blinders go back on and I'm left alone again....We agree that when the three of us are together, I will squeeze her hand and say "here I am" when I need her to pay a little attention to me. (which makes me feel like an idiot BTW).
Well then it's not a very good agreement.
Quote:
This morning, it's sexy time...we are all in the bed and start messing around (YES!).
Oh! So this is what you were waiting for? 3way MFM sex? Now the light dawns. You don't want a cuddle, a hand squeeze, you want to fuck her while he plays with her and vice versa?

Swinger mentality strikes again.

Quote:
The kids get up and need attention, so I tell L and J that I will go take care of them and leave the lovebirds to themselves. J says okay and L says "No, come on back whenever." So I say, "we'll see". And close the door behind me. I get the kids going with breakfast and whatnot
All this adult sex and fighting time with a 3 and 6 year old in the next room? Yikes.

Quote:
and I'm super horny at this point, so I decide to join the activity already in progress back in the bedroom.
Uh oh...

Quote:
They are having sex when I come in and quickly stop (they thought I was one of the kids). I apologize for startling them and say well, let's get back to it. J informs me that L is already done, but she hasn't O'd yet. We take care of her, and then it's my turn. The kids start getting restless, and L (being a really nice guy here) leaves us alone while he tends to the kiddos.
Well, that seems to be the perfect solution except, it's not what L wants! He wants one on one and so does she, it seems.

Quote:

Now they are going to lunch together (at my behest). I've come to the conclusion that the only thing to do is remove myself from the situation. It's obvious that I'm the only one that enjoys our "threesome" time (in and out of the bedroom) ....
Yep.
Quote:
I've decided that we should not spend much time together as a group. J and L should either do overnights in hotels or at home without me.

Am I right?
Yep, you are. Dating separately seems the way to go. She has L, you have her, and maybe someday you'll find a gf for yourself as well. But first, get this all talked over with the wife. You and she are on different wavelengths to be sure!
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #28  
Old 06-23-2013, 06:06 PM
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Phy Phy is offline
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Well, some thoughts:

1. Try to remove yourself from this situation. You can not handle them together well and you ask for reassurance while she is occupied with him. Generally speaking it is fine to ask to not be completely ignored but I would feel highly disturbed if my husband would have asked for those "breaks" to tend to his feelings while I was having some time with my other partner (if it was agreed to have this time and the problem keeps "popping up" regularly).

And I would feel put under pressure to have to "even the score" and be asked to function at a specific point in time when my husband was feeling like having some compensation time. Yes, you told her that you would like that time, but ordering her to make it up to you feels ... not quite right. (Yes, she consented to it, it was not that great that she behaved like she did as well). Scheduling time might help without already setting a special "program". Maybe just having some time with her could help. Whatever might happen then. If she forgets about this time and you need it, setting a time frame could be a solution.

I do not mean that it is unreasonable to ask for some consideration in regard to your feelings and problems, but I would avoid situations in which those feelings are bound to come up if possible. Your suggestion that they should spend those time away from the house could help quite a bit.

2. She is acting in a way we (husband, boyfriend and I) especially tried to avoid from day one when everything started. If she recognized your needs and problems it was insensitive and even "rude" to keep on going and not sit down and talk about it right away. We regularly checked in with each other to make sure that everyone was doing fine. And even if NRE is strong, I would not excuse her behaviour with it. At least I would not have let that excuse pass in my own case.

3. It definitely is a problem that you are expecting other things than her/him. You should sit down and talk about expectations and limits. If it is a no go or still causing upset for you that they would like to have a more meaningful or emotional connection than some casual sex that concern is valid but extremely limiting for them. And you have to find a compromise or a solution acceptable for all.

Maybe I read some things out of proportion or in the wrong context, but that was my immediate reaction.

I personally would stop the threesomes for now and start with the general relationship configurations. As long as you are not on the same page it will not go smoothly.
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  #29  
Old 06-23-2013, 06:15 PM
DFWPolyGuy DFWPolyGuy is offline
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Quote:
Oh, so they had to wait til the day after he arrived to have alone time...
No wonder they couldnt keep their hands off each other. But still, you expected "attention" after an hour of them cuddling and then had a hissy fit and got hammered when you didn't get it.
Yeah, that was pretty shitty of me. Totally wrongheaded of me and I dealt with it poorly.

Quote:
Oh! So this is what you were waiting for? 3way MFM sex? Now the light dawns. You don't want a cuddle, a hand squeeze, you want to fuck her while he plays with her and vice versa?

Swinger mentality strikes again.
Not exactly like you took it. Yes, I DO enjoy MFM a lot. I ALSO enjoy our time together outside the bedroom. I ALSO enjoy cuddling and kissing and hand-squeezing. Those things are not mutually exclusive to me and one does not replace the others. Just sex is fine. Emotionally connected sex is awesome. not having sex, but spending quality time together is also awesome and something I really want for us to be able to do together. I think you took my (YES!) a little too far and made it seem like the end-game, which it definitely is not.

Quote:
All this adult sex and fighting time with a 3 and 6 year old in the next room? Yikes.
1. They aren't in the next room. They are on the opposite side of the house and cannot hear or see anything.

2. There was no "fighting". We don't fight, raise voices, etc.

Quote:
Yep, you are. Dating separately seems the way to go. She has L, you have her, and maybe someday you'll find a gf for yourself as well. But first, get this all talked over with the wife. You and she are on different wavelengths to be sure!
Thanks for that. I think we need to move that direction before I step all over two perfectly good relationships.
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  #30  
Old 06-23-2013, 07:50 PM
Ssandra Ssandra is offline
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I'm sorry for what you went through. It seems like it wasn't much of a fun weekend...

As I see it there are two separate issues here that you all need to deal with and agree upon;

1: the complete and total lack of consideration from your wife about your feelings.

Sure, she is not responsable for them, but I personally think that in a good relationship you take each others feelings into consideration. Especially because she agreed to certain things several times, and then broke those agreements.

She is an adult. She should be able to manage to control herself with the kissing and cuddling the boyfriend (Friday). If she could control herself while the kids were up, she can control herself when it is just you. She just didn't want to.

2: how to go forward from here on out.

What is happening now isn't working for anyone. I think that having new agreements will help all of you. Make sure that they are clear, one line agreements. Not agreements that take 2 hours to explain...


Good luck moving forward.
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