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  #11  
Old 06-04-2013, 08:54 PM
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KittenPuff KittenPuff is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
I'd be genuinely worried he wants a monogamous relationship with her.
He doesn't want a monogamous relationship with her, he wants her to be monogamous with him while he maintains relationships with both of us. But I see what you mean. It is worrisome.
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Asexual woman married to J, a very sexual/kinky man. I'm unemployed and home alone most of the time so I tend to get a little stir crazy.

J and I are completely new to poly and trying it out to get both our needs met without abandoning our relationship, which works tremendously well on every other level.

J has recently started dating L and says he thinks he loves her. I am alternately happy and terrified about it.
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2013, 09:39 PM
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He knows intellectually that it's right for her to date others, and it's fair for her to ask him to share her when she and I are sharing him. But he has some jealousy around it and she is worried that if she just has my husband, she will get unhealthily attached to him.
This seems like the central theme that should be looked at. Some polyamorous couples who function under a primary/secondary/tertiary structure view what they are doing as "sharing" their partners. Others (like myself) find this to be antithetical to relating to individuals as adults. I think it should be very relevant to you to explore your feelings of ownership and control because a hierarchical relationship in which controlling parties "share" their partners to a particular degree is fundamentally different from a relationship where an individual relates to other individuals. These two poly structures are as different from each other as poly is from monogamy and function by an entirely different set of principles. (I didn't realize that until I first visited these boards, I just assumed everyone did it the way I did)

Really this is just in an effort to help you understand who you are asking advice from... because I (for example) can't offer you advice on how to function in a hierarchical relationship except that I advise you not to do it

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Originally Posted by KittenPuff View Post
I feel like she and I should know how the other feels because our feelings about him and this relationship have the potential to affect all of us.
I don't understand what you mean by this. Many events happening with our SO(s) and matamours, have an effect on our lives to some degree or another; their day at work, how traffic was, how they are getting along with their siblings, etc. I'm not sure how this fact has any bearing on what information should be shared by them; they share the information they want to share... right?

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And since he is the hinge, it comes down to him to make sure that communication is happening.
It comes down to him to make sure that he is communicating what HE needs to communicate about HIMSELF. Everyone else needs to be in charge of their own communication. Period.

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I have gotten good advice and feedback here, so I am here to ask if there is any way I can help him with these feelings or is he just on his own to figure this stuff out...I don't know if I can teach him or if he's even interested in learning.
If it were just a friend you were talking about, would you feel compelled to "help" him with his feelings? If so, maybe that is just how you relate to your intimate folks. Some people give advice or offer to work through difficult issues with people they know ... others don't find it to be their business and only offer help if it is explicitly requested.
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  #13  
Old 06-04-2013, 09:45 PM
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he wants her to be monogamous with him while he maintains relationships with both of us.
He doesn't get to decide what she does with her life any more than I get to decide what you do with yours. Using "but I love you" or "but we are in a relationship" as an excuse to exercise control over another human beings autonomy is an interesting version of "love".
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  #14  
Old 06-05-2013, 01:25 AM
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Really this is just in an effort to help you understand who you are asking advice from... because I (for example) can't offer you advice on how to function in a hierarchical relationship except that I advise you not to do it

I don't understand what you mean by this. Many events happening with our SO(s) and matamours, have an effect on our lives to some degree or another; their day at work, how traffic was, how they are getting along with their siblings, etc. I'm not sure how this fact has any bearing on what information should be shared by them; they share the information they want to share... right?

If it were just a friend you were talking about, would you feel compelled to "help" him with his feelings? If so, maybe that is just how you relate to your intimate folks. Some people give advice or offer to work through difficult issues with people they know ... others don't find it to be their business and only offer help if it is explicitly requested.
Thank you, Marcus. I've seen you respond to a lot of people here and I always value what you have to say. I am spending a lot (possibly too much) of my time exploring my feelings and figuring out exactly what it is I feel and why and what I can do about it, because I am the only one who CAN do anything about my feelings. I also need to figure out how to best express my feelings and thoughts. You point out some good things and I appreciate it. I think your input will be helpful to me once I am able to process it. I think this needs to be a nonhierarchical relationship, but I need to figure out how that works and I have zero models to look at. I feel like I'm inventing something that already exists but I still don't know how to go about it.

I know I keep saying this, but it's all so new to me. I think I can handle anything as long as I have time to figure out how to handle it. But this is moving very quickly and I am not handling it well. I feel very lonely right now and spend more time lamenting my loneliness than I do processing my feelings. I need to change my focus.

I agree that he doesn't get to decide what she does with her life and I know I also don't get to decide what either of them does with theirs. It seems very weird to me that he thinks he has that right.

I like your point about her feelings having no real bearing on me. I think I need to print that out and paste it on my bathroom mirror. Really, her life is none of my business. And I need to ask him keep their conversations between them and our conversations between us.

I need to accept that, ultimately, his feelings about her and what she does are his to figure out and work out with her. I do actually offer to help my close friends work through things and let it go if they don't want to. Most people I figure will tell me what they want me to know and otherwise it's not my business. This situation feels like more of my business that I guess it really is. I also need to let go of this idea that he's mine. I am really trying not to make me the most important person, something I though I was almost good at before all this. I guess I have fears about my welfare because I am dependent on him emotionally, socially, and financially. I'm also struggling with this realization that I've handed all my power over to him which is another thing to celebrate at my hourly pity parties.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I'll stop now.
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Asexual woman married to J, a very sexual/kinky man. I'm unemployed and home alone most of the time so I tend to get a little stir crazy.

J and I are completely new to poly and trying it out to get both our needs met without abandoning our relationship, which works tremendously well on every other level.

J has recently started dating L and says he thinks he loves her. I am alternately happy and terrified about it.
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  #15  
Old 06-05-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KittenPuff View Post
I think this needs to be a nonhierarchical relationship, but I need to figure out how that works and I have zero models to look at. I feel like I'm inventing something that already exists but I still don't know how to go about it.
That's a really good point. I am fortunate to be with IV because she and CV have been non-hierarchical for 9+ years and it is like clockwork. Watching them be loving and supportive while staying out of each others business is educational and I can benefit from their experience as I'm fine tuning my worldview.

Maybe you can get hooked up in your local poly community (if there is one). Being around folks of like mind might help reduce some of the feeling of being on an island.

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Originally Posted by KittenPuff View Post
I need to change my focus.
Damn that's sexy. Good for you.

I talk a lot about taking responsibility for your feelings, not getting into other peoples business, and respecting autonomy as a central strategy but that is my expressing my principles - not necessarily a statement of the purity of my track record.

This shit can be difficult; I live in a world that is constantly reenforcing ideologies that are antithetical to how I want to live my life. Sometimes it feels like a constant struggle to put my money where my mouth is an actually live the principles I set forth for myself. It's easier said that done, but all we can do is keep learning and keep trying.
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  #16  
Old 06-05-2013, 06:43 PM
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Kitten,

I've never wanted my gf's to be monogamous, BUT have experienced jealousy. It stemmed from both competition and insecurity as in, "I'm afraid she'll like the new person better than she likes me."

Eventually I learned it's not about competition (that makes things worse), and she's obviously into me or we wouldn't spend so much time together. Things can change, but that's going to happen regardless of whether there's another person involved or not. There's friends and family that takes up time regardless of whether there is romance involved.

There's really no way to get around it other than trust, and that takes time. But it does come.
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2013, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Maybe you can get hooked up in your local poly community (if there is one). Being around folks of like mind might help reduce some of the feeling of being on an island.
That occurred to me, but the local poly community is also the local kink/BDSM community; they call themselves Fringe. As an asexual, I worry about my comfort level hanging out with people who are VERY comfortable with their sexuality and their kinks. It's also the community where he met her and I feel like it's their turf (there's my ownership mentality again). There is a weekly social meeting and I kind of want to go and kind of don't for the above reasons. He did say he might talk to them about reaching out to asexuals to provide space for us to meet. I just don't know that there are very many of us around here--probably fewer than 10 who know what they are and aces seem to be more likely to be introverted. I should probably avoid defeating the idea before we even try it, though.

I started an OKCupid account to try to make some new friends to hang out with on nights when he's out, but the onslaught of idiots who don't read my profile and go straight to propositioning me is mind-numbing. I even included an unflattering picture, to discourage that. I may have no choice but to hang with the Fringe crowd, or at least try it for an evening or two.

I did talk to my friend yesterday. I'm so bad about asking for time from my friends, but my husband called her and asked her to call me. She could never embrace poly for herself and doesn't understand it, but she makes no judgments and loves me tremendously--as I love her. It helps to have someone to vent to, but there's still that feeling of not being fully understood. I guess more a peninsula than an island, that feeling.

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I talk a lot about taking responsibility for your feelings, not getting into other peoples business, and respecting autonomy as a central strategy but that is my expressing my principles - not necessarily a statement of the purity of my track record.
Me too! I give myself very good advice but I very rarely follow it. Another thing I need to work on. Gah! All this self-improvement!
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Asexual woman married to J, a very sexual/kinky man. I'm unemployed and home alone most of the time so I tend to get a little stir crazy.

J and I are completely new to poly and trying it out to get both our needs met without abandoning our relationship, which works tremendously well on every other level.

J has recently started dating L and says he thinks he loves her. I am alternately happy and terrified about it.
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2013, 10:22 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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For the record, the sex-positive people that I know accept that asexuality is real and valid more easily than most of society. Being really secure with sexuality means being accepting of sexual differences, including the desire NOT to have sex. You can also do BDSM without bringing sex into it, plenty of people do that.

Now, can you be sure that this particular group shares that philosophy? Nope! Might you end up seeing highly sexual behavior when hanging with them? Maybe! But I'm just saying, don't assume that you wouldn't fit in just because you're asexual, it could be quite the opposite.
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2013, 12:03 AM
Eponine Eponine is offline
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Originally Posted by KittenPuff View Post
I think this needs to be a nonhierarchical relationship, but I need to figure out how that works and I have zero models to look at.
The solo poly blog has some very good posts about how to treat primary and non-primary partners with equal respect ("non-primary" only means not married/living together/sharing finances/etc, but they're not lesser than primary partners, which makes them different from "secondary partners"), such as this one.

The relationship anarchy manifesto linked in Marcus' signature offers good guidelines too, especially "love and respect instead of entitlement" I think. It's much simpler when you drop all the titles and just treat everyone you love as individuals you love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KittenPuff View Post
I started an OKCupid account to try to make some new friends to hang out with on nights when he's out, but the onslaught of idiots who don't read my profile and go straight to propositioning me is mind-numbing. I even included an unflattering picture, to discourage that. I may have no choice but to hang with the Fringe crowd, or at least try it for an evening or two.
My attempt to meet new friends (and potential partners) on OKC turned out to be a fiasco, or a waste of time at least. Meeting "just friends" (how I hate this phrase!) from a dating site seems to be beyond most people's comprehension. Now I'm happy enough to just make friends from AVEN and other forums. Granted, they're all long-distance, but the most genuine conversations I had on OKC were all with long-distance matches anyway...

I encourage you to try hanging out with the Fringe group. Who knows, it may turn out better than you think!
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Last edited by Eponine; 06-06-2013 at 12:11 AM.
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  #20  
Old 06-06-2013, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
For the record, the sex-positive people that I know accept that asexuality is real and valid more easily than most of society. Being really secure with sexuality means being accepting of sexual differences, including the desire NOT to have sex. You can also do BDSM without bringing sex into it, plenty of people do that.

Now, can you be sure that this particular group shares that philosophy? Nope! Might you end up seeing highly sexual behavior when hanging with them? Maybe! But I'm just saying, don't assume that you wouldn't fit in just because you're asexual, it could be quite the opposite.
Good points. Then I'm left with feeling like it's J & L's (hubs and gf) turf and I would be intruding. I feel like when I talked to him about it last night, he... well, to be honest when I think about it now, I feel like he gaslighted me and I fell for it. He kept saying, "I'm not saying you shouldn't go, but will you be comfortable?" Which seemed unreasonable because we would be in separate cars and I can leave at any time I need to. I feel like he was trying to discourage me from going while saying that's not what he was doing. Now I'm getting mad about it and I have too many assumptions about what took place during that conversation last night. Which means we need to have another conversation...
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Asexual woman married to J, a very sexual/kinky man. I'm unemployed and home alone most of the time so I tend to get a little stir crazy.

J and I are completely new to poly and trying it out to get both our needs met without abandoning our relationship, which works tremendously well on every other level.

J has recently started dating L and says he thinks he loves her. I am alternately happy and terrified about it.
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