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  #21  
Old 05-30-2013, 02:27 PM
seekingclarity seekingclarity is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I'm sorry, this whole Guy B thing sounds very sketchy. You lost me at "weekend in Vegas" as a first date.
Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way...

Which is part of the problem now. Her agreeing to it caused me tons of anxiety ahead of time due to all the sketchiness. I expressed the anxiety and she ultimately chose to go. Her life, her choices. It's not my place to tell her what to do. Just seemed like bad judgment to me.

What's done is done. Now we need to move forward in an ethical way if she wants to continue the relationship. If she won't, maybe I'll have to move on.

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DADT is not ethical, IMO. Dating cheaters is very much not ethical. Many people here insist on meeting a new person's SO, especially if waters seem murky.
I tend to agree. How to convince GF of same w/o appearing like my intent is to torpedo the relationship? Maybe I show her this thread or at least mention it to her....

Last edited by seekingclarity; 05-30-2013 at 04:52 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by seekingclarity View Post
Again, it's probably just nomenclature . . .
Whenever I see that word, I can't help but think of "Felis catus is your taxonomic nomenclature, an endothermic quadruped, carnivorous by nature . . ."

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Originally Posted by seekingclarity View Post
It's not really a machismo thing. It's about the law of attraction. Many people (and this would include my GF) just don't find insecurity attractive. It's not an image I want to project to my GF or to the world, quite frankly. It's not how I identify. I am a strong, confident man.
Yeah, I had a feeling you were spouting dogma from a technique like Law of Attraction. See, to me, that kind of posturing and protecting some idea of oneself is much less attractive than a guy being present and real. If you're insecure, you're insecure. It's not all of who you are, just like being strong and confident isn't all of who you are. But never mind... I can tell you already swallowed the Kool-Aid.

Good luck!
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  #23  
Old 05-30-2013, 06:58 PM
seekingclarity seekingclarity is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie
Yeah, I had a feeling you were spouting dogma from a technique like Law of Attraction. See, to me, that kind of posturing and protecting some idea of oneself is much less attractive than a guy being present and real. If you're insecure, you're insecure. It's not all of who you are, just like being strong and confident isn't all of who you are. But never mind... I can tell you already swallowed the Kool-Aid.
I'm not sure what you're referring to about a technique. I'm just speaking from my own anecdotal experience. I fully acknowledged that I experience a full range of emotion, but you fault me for having a sense of identity in who I am and for wanting to be the best, strongest version of myself as I envision it.

I ask, how is wanting to identify myself as "confident" any different than someone wanting to identify as "poly" or "shy" or "smart" or anything else? Yes, one word can never encompass a person's entire being, but it's a bit judgmental for you to decide one of my self-chosen descriptors implies I'm crazy, especially when we've never met, no?
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  #24  
Old 05-30-2013, 07:19 PM
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While I personally don't practice DADT, that is in no way a statement about what my partners must practice. It is CERTAINLY not a statement about what the partners of my partners must practice!

That being said, the issue with whether or not I believe someone is *actually* practicing consensual DADT or if they are lying is a completely different topic. This is a conversation about whether or not I know them... if I don't know them well enough to believe them when they tell me they practice DADT then we really aren't very close. It probably means we are in the 'getting to know you' stage which is awesome, and hopefully I will develop a level of intimacy with them which will reveal their true personality.

So I would encourage separating the two issues:

1. I don't know you well enough to believe you about things you say which have not been proven to me
2. I *personally* don't care for DADT arrangements and refuse to date someone who practices that approach (or, in this case, "I refuse to date someone who would date someone who practices DADT)

I find the concept of expecting a potential partner to jump through some hoops before I will consider dating them to be oddball (at best). It sounds much less like dating and much more like taking peoples resumes for a possible job.
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  #25  
Old 05-31-2013, 05:37 AM
london london is offline
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Default Dadt

The problem for me with a DADT arrangement is that it automatically enforces a limit on how far this relationship can go. If you cannot discuss your other partner(S) with your primary style partner, then the chances of them being able to come to your birthday party are slim to none. In a DADT, you will always be the hidden partner. This style of ethical non monogamy (it is ethical if both parties agree to it and anyone else who potentially gets involved is aware of the rules too) is only compatible with an open relationship in my eyes. A relationship where there is restrictions on the romantic and/or emotional connection allowed outside the primary union.

This style of relationship might work for the OP. He doesn't seem to be able to feel valued or value in a relationship where there is the possibility of emotional and/or romantic attachments outside of the primary relationship. I am not a believer in people trying to beat down a core bit of themselves in order to become poly, or become anything that they are not. I don't see polyamory as a superior state of being that we should all aspire to.

I think the OP needs to tell his partner that he cannot have a relationship where there is the possibility of them loving more than one person in a romantic sense. Putting limitations on emotional connection is always difficult, but I think he needs to vocalise that he requires these restrictions and allow his partner to either adapt to his needs or say that she needs something different and perhaps that will mean the end of their relationship.
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  #26  
Old 05-31-2013, 08:32 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default People sometimes get a little weird

and that is a gross understatement, when it comes to their SO's relationships. And when things don't work out (or work to well for their SO to handle it) an upset spouse can make life hell.

Not that people intentionally lie, but often the exact nature of the relationship is rarely communicated verbatim. That is to say there always seems to be an element of their SO having a slightly more vague knowledge of you then the words imply when a bf/gf says yes my SO knows and is OK with it.

Meeting them in person eliminates so many potential problems down the road, truthfully much of it is due to a lot fewer people being interested in meeting, but it's worth it to me because otherwise I have no idea what I am getting myself into one bad experience is more than enough for me.

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 05-31-2013 at 08:34 AM. Reason: typo
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  #27  
Old 05-31-2013, 09:02 AM
london london is offline
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I've only been open to meeting the metamours more recently. Meeting is a strong word - communicating would be better. See, I used to strongly believe that arrangements where meeting each other is an actual rule, it has to happen for a relationship can proceed spook me. They still spook me. It's a red flag. Now red flags don't mean automatic no's. Not all of them anyway. It just means "ask more". The reason that I see it as an issue is because to me, it signifies that one or both parties still want to have that element of control over their partner's other relationships. I associate it with explicit veto rights. An audition. I'm just not into it. Also, I really would prefer not to have a situation where I am her friend, and his partner, and then they have drama and I'm in the middle. I'd prefer that only he be close enough to confide in me if he so wishes.

Now, I have a better idea of what things to avoid. For example, if someone on okcupid has something that says I have to contact their spouse, or that they have to meet me by this given time, that is not a relationship for me. I also know that I don't want an ultra entwined familial style of polyamory where we all spend time together. I'd much prefer to be with my other people when he is with his. So I avoid that.

I realise though, to actually have a long term relationship with someone who already has a partner, you have to be open to at least sharing a room with them for an event or something. If you aren't, or your partner isn't, there will always be a limit to how emotionally and thus practically entangled your secondary relationships can become.
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  #28  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:50 PM
seekingclarity seekingclarity is offline
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ughhhhhh

I have an update on this relationship and think I need advice. Totally conflicted here. The question is: how do you deal with incontrovertable proof of cheating/lying?

Let me explain. We moved in together a couple months ago and things have been amazing. Just really great. We got through the Vegas thing without too much trouble. Strangely she hasn't really had any desire to go on further dates with anyone and none of the dates I've been on have led to anything intimate. Mostly we've just been focused on us and building our relationship.

Recently we decided to mutually share our Google calendars to make coordinating easier. The other night I was catching up on some billing issues and was reviewing past entries on my calendar for client meetings. I ran across one of her old entries that had the name of the first guy she went on an overnight with blocked off for an entire evening she did not tell me about. This was about 3 weeks after her first overnight with him, and about 5 months ago. I know for a fact she did not tell me she was with him that night because I asked her if she could do dinner that night and she gave me some excuse I can't remember but I ended up scheduling lunch with a buddy I hadn't seen in years, which is recorded on my calendar.

Of course I got curious and angry but I did not immediately confront her because she is out of town this week. Instead I decided to read her emails. She previously told me there's nothing in her emails I can't read. I'm not certain if that's the same as giving permission, but I decided it was.

At any rate I discovered emails between them confirming she spent the night that night. I also found emails confirming she had spent another night with him about three months prior to what I thought was their first overnight - the one she did tell me about.

A couple of other things to consider. The first overnight that she didn't tell me about was at the absolute beginning of our relationship. We were a month or so in and hadn't even slept together yet, though we had done other stuff (and in fact had been planning our first overnight together for weeks, which actually took place five days after this first overnight with him). That said, we had agreed to be poly and honest, but maybe this first lapse is forgivable. Is it?

This third encounter, the one with the calendar entry that prompted my investigation, seems different and inexcusable. It took place three weeks after what I thought was their first overnight and at a point where our relationship was substantially established, but still on a bit of shakey ground. The only reason I can think she didn't tell me is she thought I wouldn't be able to handle another overnight with him so soon after the first and she either didn't want to risk losing me or just wanted to protect herself from dealing with my feelings. Neither of those excuses seem acceptable. Further it feels like what she was actually doing was weighing options rather than being committed to me and our poly relationship.

So, what do I do with this? Do I just peace out without explanation? Do I show her the calendar entry and give her a chance to be honest? Do I just confess what I know and ask for her explanation and try to work it out? Do I just forget it and trust that our relationship is fundamentally different than it was 5 months ago (it is) such that I can reasonably believe she won't lie again (not sure).

My concern is that if I just confess, she will have an opportunity to spin it rather than pursue an honest communication. On the other hand, if I just show her the entry and give her the chance to lie or be honest I will learn a lot about her character. If she continues the lie, I walk. If she comes clean, we work it out. But testing her this way feels manipulative and I don't like that. Either way I feel like I am going to tell her what I know, it's just a question of confession by me right away or test her to see what she's made of.

Ultimately we're all broken and fucked up, but this feels shitty and wrong. I want to believe in her and in us, but I don't want to be naive and taken advantage of.
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  #29  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:13 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Being committed doesn't mean what she does with other people is any of your business. It seems she simply wants to keep her relationships separate and there is nothing wrong with that. She may see her commitment to being honest with you as only related to what you and she share. She is still her own person making her own decisions. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill that has nothing to do with you. Manage YOUR relationship with her, you can't do anything about her other relationships and they are not yours to manage or concern yourself with.
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Click here for a Solo Poly view on hierarchical relationships
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:22 PM
seekingclarity seekingclarity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Being committed doesn't mean what she does with other people is any of your business. It seems she simply wants to keep her relationships separate and there is nothing wrong with that. She may see her commitment to being honest with you as only related to what you and she share. She is still her own person making her own decisions. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill that has nothing to do with you. Manage YOUR relationship with her, you can't do anything about her other relationships and they are not yours to manage or concern yourself with.
I think you missed the part where I said she straight up lied to me about what she was doing that night when I asked her to go to dinner.

Our agreement is that we specifically discuss encounters before they happen and tell each other immediately after anything that occurs spontaneously.

This isn't about me managing her relationship with him, which is non-existant at this point as far as I can tell. It is about whether OUR relationship can or should move forward given that she has broken the foundational agreement of the relationship.
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