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Old 05-14-2013, 03:09 AM
shrivelwood shrivelwood is offline
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Talking New here.. and new to Polyamory :$

Hey there,

Just thought I'd introduce myself and explain my situation a little...
I'm a 25 y/o male, with a 24 y/o fiancÚ We've been together 3 years now and we've always been very open when it comes to sex. She's openly bisexual, whereas I consider myself more Bicurious.

We talk a LOT about inviting other people into our bedroom as its a common fantasy we share, we've managed to involve both a male and a female into separate occasions, though we struggle a lot because very few of our friends are as open minded as us.

This is my first problem... because we're on a never ending mission to find someone who will join us in the bedroom so we can experiment, we've approached many of our friends, who seem eager when they've had a drink but then after a short game of strip poker or something they draw the line at which they are comfortable with... (this is more than fine with me i never try to push peoples boundaries and would never let people do something they're not comfortable with) but anyways... the next morning or days following things just get real awkward, and then they distance themselves from us, and we end up losing friends. =(

recently though... my fiancÚ and I, met up with an old school friend of mine, and we talked and flirted over text for weeks before meeting up with her for a very sexy night. (I say school friend loosely... In school I was madly in love with this girl, but the feelings were always one sided)... Sorry going off track, So soon after we had this amazing night together, she met a guy online and began dating him, this didn't stop the flirty texts, sexy pictures, and future plans to meet up again!

Rather than cheating on her new boyfriend we all decided to play some games; drinking, stripping & dares. Soon the night got very sexual again, other than the fact her new boyfriend just wasn't "in the mood". So that night ended and it caused a lot of friction between the four of us, and he got very jealous of her speaking to us. Since then me and my fiancÚ have promised to behave so she can have a shot at making it work with her new boyfriend. This was all going great until one night, after many drinks, everyone else has gone to bed except myself, and the girl I knew from school. As she was a bit tipsy herself, she confessed to me that she loved me all the way through school, and she still loves me now.

I have to be honest it really blew me out of the water, I mean i'm due to get married to a woman I love in 2 months, and here I am sitting with a girl I loved for many years telling me she felt the same. Needless to say she got embarrassed and made a quick exit to go to bed...

Because I share everything with my fiancÚ, i woke her gently and confessed the conversation that just took place, she was a tiny bit shocked, but to be honest it was more a feeling of "I told you so" because she had once said it was clear the way she spoke to me that she had feelings.

So Anyways... After that night, I've been having increasing feelings about inviting this girl to be part of our relationship, It seems really arrogant for me to say this... But I genuinely feel that neither my fiancÚ or this other girl, will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do, not to mention the added bonus of the bedroom antics.

I have spoke to my fiancÚ about this, shes fully aware of the feelings I once had, and the fact that these feelings may be resurfacing, We talked in great depth about how different things could have been if only a few things were changed etc. My fiancÚ trusts me as much as I trust her so she was able to tell me her worries, she confessed saying that she thinks she might get jealous of having to share me with another woman. But she seemed much happier when I explained she would be both our girlfriend, (hard to explain really, like there'd be Me & Wife, Me & Gf, Wife & Gf)...

(of course I haven't mentioned any of this to the girl because she's attempting to make her current relationship work, and to be honest i really need to be clear in my own mind about it before suggesting it lol)

So what I guess I really wanna know... is it okay to love 2 people at once? and why should it always have to come down to a choice? I mean, I would never turn my back on my fiancÚ! but in a "traditional" relationship, if one person develops feelings for another it usually signifies they no longer love the original person which ultimately leads to a break up.

-Shrivelwood-
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  #2  
Old 05-15-2013, 01:50 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default Quite a predicament you've gotten yourself into there

I've had to learn the hard way to be careful of people who know you've had or have feelings for them that aren't mutual until it looks like you've moved on and suddenly they always had a secret crush on you. Of course it could go the other way and she really did love you all this time and she isn't being selfish or manipulative, so in the end only you guys will know for sure. It's either really good news or a sign to run like hell.

If there is next time all four of you get together, it might work out better if you talk about things and situations before they begin to get sexual. For some people that kills all of thrill of being spontaneous, or squashes the excitement of not knowing what's going to happen or if anything is going happen and that can be a problem for those who really like that thrill. And it is fun, but my experience is that when the people involved have deep emotional ties, letting things get sexual without ever even discussing how attractive you find someone's spouse, or that when you hugged them you almost found yourself automatically going in for a smooch because it just felt natural (or just anything to get a sense of whether or not they would be OK with that) but from my experience, letting it get sexual on it's own can cause panic and the person might back out and be offended even if they secretly wanted it to happen too (if she loved you the whole time and knew you liked her, you gotta wonder about a person who waits to say something until you are engaged and about to get married, I don't know to tell you, but some people get a little crazy when it comes to strong emotions)

who knows what the hell they are thinking, but I am convinced if it isn't something very casual and no emotions attached that it always works better if it's thoroughly discussed.

I don't have any statistics for you except to say it's what I have come to believe.

And not that a person should be coached or anything, but just so you know, will a little patience, empathy, honesty and a genuine concern for your partner's well being and happiness, just that plus being interested and or really listening to your partner is typically be much more love than most people are used to experiencing. So just a heads up because if a marriage and family counselor heard you say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrivel
....But I genuinely feel that neither my fiancÚ or this other girl, will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do....
they tend to make note of such statements, even though it may be innocent, people that are emotionally abusive tend to tell their partners stuff like that so it will raise some flags.

In any event, I promise you that anybody is able to love nearly infinitely, but if you aren't reflective or consciously thinking about how your behavior effects your partner and their other partners, it is very easy to become oblivious to the harm that can be done all the while being "blinded " by love.

Sounds like your non-monogamy experience is either going to get really good, try to consciously steer it that way as they sometimes also end up really bad

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 05-15-2013 at 01:58 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2013, 03:49 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Hello and Welcome!

Thank you for sharing your story, thus far, with us.

I have a few comments that you may (or may not) find helpful - I chop and paste your post a bit to make them - please correct me if that ends up taking anything out of context.

Easy things first:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrivelwood View Post
So what I guess I really wanna know... is it okay to love 2 people at once? and why should it always have to come down to a choice? I mean, I would never turn my back on my fiancÚ! but in a "traditional" relationship, if one person develops feelings for another it usually signifies they no longer love the original person which ultimately leads to a break up.
You are on a poly board so many of us here (me included) are going to say "YES! it is okay to love 2 people at once. It does NOT always have to come to a choice." Actually, even in many "monogamous" pairings people recognize that you CAN love more than one person - but the "boundaries" of the relationship preclude one from ACTING on that feeling. (Which is a whole 'nother topic of conversations - is "emotional cheating" the same as "sexual infidelity"?)

Having said that, it seems that not everyone is capable of this - some people feel that they are "monogamously wired" and that feelings for another does signify that they no longer love their former love. In your current situation you may need to consider that perhaps your fiance and your "potential" may, in fact, be monogamously inclined (even if not sexually exclusive). So to say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrivelwood View Post
My fiancÚ trusts me as much as I trust her so she was able to tell me her worries, she confessed saying that she thinks she might get jealous of having to share me with another woman. But she seemed much happier when I explained she would be both our girlfriend, (hard to explain really, like there'd be Me & Wife, Me & Gf, Wife & Gf)...
- is actually a BIG jump. You seem to be poly-inclined and your fiance seems to be, at least, okay with exploring that. But your "potential" only confessed to loving YOU in the past and loving YOU now. So, from what you have written, the "How she feels about your fiance" question is still up in the air. Just because she has been interested in joining you guys in the bedroom does NOT necessarily mean that she is interested in having a "relationship" with your fiance.

For some people (me, for instance) sex and love are different matters - I am sometimes interested in having sex with people that I don't love and I sometimes love people that I won't have sex with. It's really nice when both happen with the same person/people, but, for me, this is not required.

It sounds like, correct me if I am wrong, that your "open" experiences with your fiance have been pretty "sex-focused" - drinking, strip poker, fantasy fulfillment, "find someone who will join us in the bedroom so we can experiment" - happy, happy, fun times...but not necessarily intimate or relationship-forming encounters (not that there is anything wrong with this!). Adding the "unrequited love" aspect between you and the "potential" adds a whole layer to the mix, especially since you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrivelwood View Post
(of course I haven't mentioned any of this to the girl because she's attempting to make her current relationship work, and to be honest i really need to be clear in my own mind about it before suggesting it lol)
She may just have wanted to get her old, closely held, feelings off of her chest. She may be more interested in forming a relationship with her new guy than pursuing a complicated arrangement with you two. She may be more interested in forming a relationship with you with occasional "sexy fun times" in a bedroom threesome with you and your fiance. The point is - you don't know until you talk to her about it.

Sure, talk to your fiance about what the two of you are comfortable trying...BUT realize that this "potential" will have ideas of her own. How flexible are you willing to be? What if, for instance, she is willing to try it out but only if her new interest is also involved (assuming he gets to the place where he is comfortable with this)? Are the two of you willing to be "part of their relationship" as well as "inviting this girl to be part of our relationship"? Tit for Tat? You willing to be "his" boyfriend (or your wife "his" girlfriend) in the same manner you are proposing that your "potential" be your fiance's girlfriend?

As for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrivelwood View Post
It seems really arrogant for me to say this... But I genuinely feel that neither my fiancÚ or this other girl, will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do, not to mention the added bonus of the bedroom antics.
I understand that, yes, you love and care for them A LOT, the maximum possible (in your estimation). BUT there are 7 billion + people on the planet...(most of whom we will never meet)...but, unless they are the next Hitler (in which case, why do you love them?)...the chances that they can find someone who can love and care for them AS MUCH AS you are statistically pretty fair. I found two, for me, 19 years apart...the next one may turn up tomorrow, or never. (To be utterly fair...this is actually their judgement to make, not yours...their priorities may be unfathomable to you...)

Don't know if this made a whole lot of sense...but those were my thoughts.

JaneQ
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  #4  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:31 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrivelwood View Post
We talk a LOT about inviting other people into our bedroom as its a common fantasy we share, we've managed to involve both a male and a female into separate occasions, though we struggle a lot because very few of our friends are as open minded as us.
What exactly is it you struggle with? Finding people to have group sex with the two of you? And this is because they're not as 'open-minded' as you are? If I have this right, then...what does 'open-minded' mean to you? Does preferring sex one on one or preferring an intimate moment to be private make someone close-minded? Just trying to be clear here on what you're saying.


Quote:
we've approached many of our friends, who seem eager when they've had a drink but then after a short game of strip poker or something they draw the line at which they are comfortable with... (this is more than fine with me i never try to push peoples boundaries and would never let people do something they're not comfortable with) but anyways... the next morning or days following things just get real awkward, and then they distance themselves from us, and we end up losing friends. =(
So this behavior keeps ruining friendships, but...

Quote:
recently though... my fiancÚ and I, met up with an old school friend of mine, and we talked and flirted over text for weeks before meeting up with her for a very sexy night.
You keep doing it anyway?

And just a thought, if the pattern is that they do it when they've had a drink--only when they've had a drink?--and then become uncomfortable afterward to the point of avoiding you, and couple that with your opinion that they're 'not as open-minded as you' and you're on a perpetual hunt for new bed partners, it seems to me quite possible that their boundaries were being pushed. Just a thought.


Quote:
So soon after we had this amazing night together, she met a guy online and began dating him, this didn't stop the flirty texts, sexy pictures, and future plans to meet up again!
Was this new guy aware she was still sending flirty texts and sexy pictures to you, and planning to meet up again?

Quote:
Rather than cheating on her new boyfriend we all decided to play some games; drinking, stripping & dares. Soon the night got very sexual again, other than the fact her new boyfriend just wasn't "in the mood". So that night ended and it caused a lot of friction between the four of us, and he got very jealous of her speaking to us.
It seems like you keep doing the same thing you always did and keep getting the same results.


Quote:
Since then me and my fiancÚ have promised to behave so she can have a shot at making it work with her new boyfriend.
Very touching. Very noble. Of course, the girl herself, can make some decisions about how to behave if she really values this new guy and how he ended up feeling about it all. A feeling that, btw, shouldn't entirely surprise you, since you keep having the same results from the same behavior.

Quote:
It seems really arrogant for me to say this... But I genuinely feel that neither my fiancÚ or this other girl, will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do, not to mention the added bonus of the bedroom antics.
Sound arrogant? You nailed it. JaneQSmythe put it so kindly. I gotta say, to me, having read thousands of postings from women on an infidelity board over the years, it also makes me think how many women didn't leave abusers because the guy had them convinced they'd never "find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do." My XH had me convinced of this. Lo and behold, not even remotely true. But convincing women of this can go a long way to destroying their self-esteem such that they tolerate way more than they should.


Quote:
But she seemed much happier when I explained she would be both our girlfriend...

(of course I haven't mentioned any of this to the girl because she's attempting to make her current relationship work...
So this girl was in love with you 8 years ago in high school. She had a threesome with you two. (Only one?) But she's trying to make a relationship work with this other guy she likes now. But you've assured your GF that this girl will be a joint GF to both of you? Without asking this girl? It's posts like this that leave people thinking some people are out there looking for a living breathing sex toy. You apparently haven't even asked her, and you're already promising her, body and soul, as a gift to your GF! Does she come with a silver bow and a gift tag? What happens if she malfunctions and doesn't go along with the program--can you return her, full purchase price refunded, to her current boyfriend?

Quote:
So what I guess I really wanna know... is it okay to love 2 people at once? and why should it always have to come down to a choice? I mean, I would never turn my back on my fiancÚ! but in a "traditional" relationship, if one person develops feelings for another it usually signifies they no longer love the original person which ultimately leads to a break up.
Of course it's okay to love two people at once. (And honestly, did you think you'd get any other answer on a poly board?) But I think you should be thinking about much bigger issues right now, like why you'd tell your GF you and she can share this girl without discussing it with the girl herself.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:58 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is online now
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I love two. No problem.

No one-I repeat NO ONE-including the two loves of my life can promise ANYONE including each other that I will be anything. Only I can do that.
Likewise-you can't promise anyone that another person will be anything. Not your right, not your place.
THAT is the line of reasoning that is arrogant & the same line of thought generally leads only to disaster.

If drinking ignites more open behavior from people who sober aren't ok with it, and this is ruining friendships, how about taking alcohol out of the equation? If they aren't interested sober, they aren't interested and you can avoid the drama.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:46 PM
shrivelwood shrivelwood is offline
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Wow, I honestly didn't expect replies this soon, Just thought i'd come back and clear a few things up and give an update on things...

when I posted this first thread my mind was all over the place as it was all all quite recent. Since then i've had time to think and time to talk to my partner to help clear my mind a bit.

I've come to the realisation that nothing will happen between the 4 of us again sexually, and I should be thankful for the one(or two) off opportunity that did happen.
Though the girl continues to secretly flirt with us both, I realise thats all it is, flirting! even though shes trying to make things work out with her current relationship, when shes had a drink her inhibitions go out the window and she admits her sexual attraction to us.

Which has made it hard for us to reject the advances, but hey we want her to be happy and we don't want to be the temptation that causes stress on her relationship...

Also I talked to my fiancÚ about the love confessions, and I've gotta be honest it completely threw me off, Yes, it was fantastic to hear that it wasn't one sided in school, but I've decided it makes my life much easier if I recognise she said that, but try my best to forget the part where she said she still loved me.

I might have also confused things in my own mind, mistaking old feelings, where I loved this girl all the way through school and thought that the feelings were the same now, Yes I still love her, but its a totally different kind of love to which I share with my finacÚ. It's more a feeling of caring for her, helping her with all her issues, and always being there for her to talk to. These are qualities most people have in really good friendships, but with everything thats happened, like seeing someone I haven't seen for years, the threesome, and all the care/attention I've been givin her, I confused as something more.

I know this message has caused a bit of a stir, so I thought i'd clear things up a bit.
Quote:
It seems really arrogant for me to say this... But I genuinely feel that neither my fiancÚ or this other girl, will find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as I do, not to mention the added bonus of the bedroom antics.
All I meant by this was I have a large capacity to Love and to care for these people, I've never said to my fiancÚ or the other girl that they won't find anyone who will love them and care for them as much as me. I've never even implied such a message, as the last thing I would want to be is emotionally abusive, or reducing their self esteem. I simply meant that I know in my own mind that I could care for both unconditionally.

As for the whole losing friends thing, again I may have over exaggerated a little, rest assured that all the people that played these games with us while drinking were open to the idea, and some even instigated it themselves. When the morning came, its not so much a feeling of awkwardness, its more a feeling of "Dude, I had fun, but i was drunk" much the same as many one night stands... Of course I'm not proud of this, but we're a mid 20's couple, who enjoy a night of drinking etc. Also its not as these incidents are the root cause to why we lose contact with our friends, my fiancÚ and I recently moved 60 odd miles across country and we see these people less and less.

Me and my finacÚ have had a very deep and emotional talk, and we've realised that we both want to focus on our wedding for the time being, but also that we're reading off the same page in regards to an open relationship. We're both open to the idea of inviting people to join us, but only in the bedroom. Not into our relationship. One of the main reasons why our relationship is strong, is because no matter what happens, we're always together as a team.

Thanks again for all your messages, it really did help to get a better perspective on my whole situation

-Shrivelwood -
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:28 PM
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While I was reading your first post, I was thinking, "What does any of this have to do with polyamory?" And now I've read your last post, and I feel that it's a good thing you and your fiancÚe talked and came to your realizations. Since you both want an open relationship with occasional, no-strings, purely recreational sex with other people that does not lead to actual loving relationships, you'd be better off looking into swinging, since (obviously) what you want is not poly. There are plenty of sites online that can help you find other swingers who are local to you, when you are ready. But I would watch the drinking, if I were you. Sounds like you let yourselves lose control fairly often, and this could lead to problems. Good luck!
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