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  #41  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:45 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
something in this whole story isn't coagulating for me, iykwim.
I'm not sure if i "kwym". You mean something that nobody else has mentioned yet, or just anything and everything in general? Tell us what's on your mind.
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  #42  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:43 AM
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I guess if I am to depend on MYSELF for my OWN happiness and to do what I need to do to make that happen, then I need to take any response from him out of the picture. Basically telling myself to accept it the way it is, find a way within myself to "like" it or get out of it and start over. Am I understanding that correctly?
Essentially, yes.
I don't say that to be cocky or obnoxious at all either.

When I realized I am poly and I am in love with two men, I had to tell them-and then I had to decide what it was I needed to do to take care of myself (and my children).
I HOPED that they would carry their load of responsibility with the kids.

But-we can ONLY control ourselves-not other people. Therefore, I had to depend on MYSELF.

You write-and it's all about how miserable you are and how much you don't like the situation.
You don't have the right to insist that anyone else change.
You can ask-and they can tell you where to shove it.

But YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE YOURSELF.

In your case, that may mean saying that you can't live their unless their is an agreement between the three of you that no one enters your room.

My husband wouldn't dream of entering my boyfriends bedroom without bf's permission and vice versa. That is personal space. I share both spaces and both are comfortable with me going in and out-but they do NOT enter each others space without knowing it's ok with each other.

Similarly-my boyfriend does NOT have the right to expect me to alter the private relations between husband and I for his comfort.
Husband does NOT have the right to expect me to alter the private relations between boyfriend and I for his comfort.

We all have the right to ask for changes or special privileges for temporary situations or circumstances-but we don't have the right to EXPECT them.

Your attitude of wanting them to derail an existing relationship (that you don't respect because it doesn't meet YOUR expectations for a "good marriage") is unreasonable. If I was the person you said that to, I would kick you out of the house with no notice.
In order for a poly dynamic to function, it has to be understood that each couple makes their OWN rules for THEIR relationship & that metamours don't get to make those rules. You don't get a say-so in defining what is "good" or not about THEIR marriage.

Furthermore, it's unfortunate that legal rights don't exist for multiple marriages-but this is a fact. It's NOT appropriate for you to insist that they divorce for your benefit. That is beyond selfish. It's childish.

What would be reasonable is for you to acknowledge that love is not enough to create full-compatibility.
This man IS A MARRIED MAN.
If you want a husband-he's not the man. It doesn't matter how much you love him, as the laws exist, he's not available. What promises he made are also arbitrary-as it stands he is NOT available to marry. Period.

Is that "fair"? shrug-it's the LAW.

If you want a husband and all of the benefits that go with it, you need to move on.
As Galagirl has said on MANY occasions and it has helped me SO VERY MUCH to consider;
this is the "price of admission".
If you want to be with THIS man-you don't get marriage and all of the benefits that go with it. That is the cost of admission for being with him.
If you want marriage and those benefits, you need to find another man. That is the cost of admission for having those benefits.
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  #43  
Old 05-14-2013, 01:42 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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LR -- in normal conditions yes. I say that about accepting the price of admission. But in this case? When it smells like more abuse weirdo? This is TOO great a price to pay for admission.

I urge just LEAVING and making the plan to leave SAFE. Could not consider any stating options. It is TOO great of a price of admission -- her soul dying incrementally. Just to stick with this less than loving behaviors man. Intentional understatement. Abused people hear abuse at home, don't need to hear more from me.

But OP, you DO need to hear this. I do not write this to pain you or add to your burden. All I can offer you for comfort is that I really do read all your posts.

But you are aware you are in a precarious position, right? You sound at risk to me. Twice abused and sailing from crazy man out to kill you into Europe isolation weirdness? It may have sounded great -- leaving crazy behind and having your new love help resettle you elsewhere. Kind even. But it sounds like it turned sour.

YOU could take the risk assessment of your situation. Because only you know what OTHER things you deal in over there. Sigh.

If you read no other links today, maybe just this one then.

http://speakoutloud.net/wp-content/u...urphy-2010.pdf

You went from running away from crazy ex wanting to kill you hoping Prince Charming would rescue you. Now you come to find after 3 years of being isolated and his financial dependent, that the gilded cage you are in is still a cage.

Still no language lessons or job of your own to get you out of the house. Will buy you whatever that is for HIS enjoyment too (fridge, car, trips to amsterdam) but not things that give YOU any time away from under his presence or control (trips stateside alone, your own flat) or WIFE time away from under his presence and control. When a solution like that would lower the arguement level and "too close for comfort" stuff that the kids are chronically exposed to. Your home life has a lot of arguing and yelling -- not healthy for anyone.

Very fishy. The only thing I can think of why he would not entertain a reasonable solution like that? Because one or both of you might wake up. She already sounds like she's waking up to whatever soft soap he's been selling her -- and is chasing him down in the house to catch him at it. When you and her cannot speak easily to each other in each others language -- pitting you against each other is handy for him so you don't catch on to any triangulation games.

Makes you wonder now too -- if when she's previously been so nice to you... are you helping him to be mean to her by keeping info from her and doing lies of omission? Not comfortable thoughts for you to entertain. You are confused at all the brainwashing. Stage 3 person sounding to me.

However painful it is to open eyes to see clear? Remove blinders and see clear.

When life gives you a choices and BOTH stink? Choose the one that stinks the least then.

Quote:
Live with it the way that it is and hurt everyday of my life while I continue to lie to my family.
or leave him and the life that we have and could have forever behind.
Leaving him sucks less. Could choose to leave. You will hurt for a time because of the break up, but in time it will stop. That's better than hurting every day of your life. It may be scary to think about living alone and making it on your own when you never have before. But that's not a good reason to stay in a thing that sucks you dry.

Do you have relatives at home that would take you in and fly you back and away from this crazy? Can you call your embassy? Do you even still have access to your own/valid passport or was those wings clipped too?

Remember you have worth, dignity, and value. Even if you have to "play along" to get to a place where you can bolt better. Make a safety plan.

Remember you are a survivor and have survived before. So do what you have to do to survive again and get yourself out safely.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-14-2013 at 04:56 AM.
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  #44  
Old 05-14-2013, 03:40 AM
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pollyanna pollyanna is offline
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
I'm not sure if i "kwym". You mean something that nobody else has mentioned yet, or just anything and everything in general? Tell us what's on your mind.
i know weird stuff happens but i find it hard to believe that any 50 yr old woman would leave this country to go live with strangers in a country where she can't speak the language and she has made outrageous demands and those demands where graciously acquiesced to?

She sounds to me more like a whiney 15 yr old princess who finds out Disney isn't really the truth. Imho, the OP sounds like she is kinda out of touch with reality. I honestly don't understand what she truly thought she was getting into and why she thinks it's ok to try to wreck the man's homelife. Especially if the wife has been so good to her.

I dunno...it all sounds far-fetched to me. I moved from Texas to Boston to be with my (now) husband...it was frightening beyond belief to leave my life and depend upon someone else. I really don't think I could cross international lines.
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  #45  
Old 05-14-2013, 03:44 AM
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pollyanna pollyanna is offline
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and, furthermore, i kinda sorta resent the 'don't wanna play anymore' thing. It indicates a lack of maturity and self-responsbility to call changing others' families and lives to benefit one's own selfish whims and desires 'play'.

I consider our lifestyle--ie, polyamory--serious--hearts are involved and lives are changed. It's not a game.
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  #46  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:49 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
and, furthermore, i kinda sorta resent the 'don't wanna play anymore' thing. It indicates a lack of maturity and self-responsbility to call changing others' families and lives to benefit one's own selfish whims and desires 'play'.

I consider our lifestyle--ie, polyamory--serious--hearts are involved and lives are changed. It's not a game.

I thought the same thing, but considered that the OP might have meant "play" as in "play this game". It does indeed seem to me that she is playing games.

You clearly have specific criteria as to what constitutes "play" and what doesn't. As i explained in the BDSM thread, you have the right to decide that for YOURSELF, but you have NO RIGHT to speak about what others consider "play" or "not-play". Do not come here and make statements about "our lifestyle - ie, polyamory" because you do not speak for everyone on this forum just because most of us happen to be in a situation that satisfies the definition of the word.


Quote:
i know weird stuff happens but i find it hard to believe that any 50 yr old woman would leave this country to go live with strangers in a country where she can't speak the language and she has made outrageous demands and those demands where graciously acquiesced to?

She sounds to me more like a whiney 15 yr old princess who finds out Disney isn't really the truth. Imho, the OP sounds like she is kinda out of touch with reality. I honestly don't understand what she truly thought she was getting into and why she thinks it's ok to try to wreck the man's homelife. Especially if the wife has been so good to her.

I dunno...it all sounds far-fetched to me. I moved from Texas to Boston to be with my (now) husband...it was frightening beyond belief to leave my life and depend upon someone else. I really don't think I could cross international lines.
For the most part I agree with this. However, I take major issue with you declaring yourself as the spokesperson for people in this lifestyle, that lifestyle, etc. It makes me reluctant to admit when I do agree with you because I feel as if doing so would reinforce your erroneous assumptions.

That said, Welcome to Massachusetts. I hope you like it here better than Texas. I'm speaking for "those of us in the Massachusetts lifestyle".
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  #47  
Old 05-14-2013, 07:45 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is online now
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Gala-I happen to agree that the price of admission is too high, that was sort of my point.
There is alrice anyway you go.
She is miserable, thats the price, not worth it.
So yes, take responsibility to meet your needs alone. He is not available (for a variety of reasons) to be what is sought.

"we never make the same mistake twice, because the second time its not a mistake, its a choice"
My daughter sent me that today and it fits.
If you cant get what you want and need in this scenario-its time to leave.
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  #48  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:39 PM
gaiasrevenge gaiasrevenge is offline
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What I see here is a classic case of agreeing to something you weren't sure of to start with, and finding out that "not too sure" was actually your brain trying to say, "Oh, Hells, no!!!!"

It's a crap situation born out of many crappy situations you have found yourself in, OP. You needed an escape, and this couple gave you one. Now you're secure and not worrying about the ex-husband killing you, you've moved up the Maslow scale and discovered your needs are different now.

As others have said, all you can do is decide if this situation is good for YOU or not, you cannot demand anyone else change one thing about how they conduct their lives.

I feel I must point this out as well. You have lived in a non-English speaking country for three years and haven't bothered to learn the language? That form of isolation you most certainly do have a degree of control over. The fact you have no support network and no friends in this foregin land is pretty much your own fault. I'd start with that if I were you, learning the language and making a life for myself that doesn't revolve around him all the time.
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  #49  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gaiasrevenge View Post

I feel I must point this out as well. You have lived in a non-English speaking country for three years and haven't bothered to learn the language? That form of isolation you most certainly do have a degree of control over. The fact you have no support network and no friends in this foregin land is pretty much your own fault. I'd start with that if I were you, learning the language and making a life for myself that doesn't revolve around him all the time.


Basically, you've been a victim, a victim of abuse. So your mind, your brain is geared to surviving that.

I was once told, "What we do to survive, stay sane, is valid. No matter how messed up, until we find a better way."

You did what you had to, but now you don't need to be a victim. Get thee to therapy! Start reading some self help books on abuse victims. Your mindset is stuck in victim, that will get annoying for everyone fast because sooner rather than later it is YOU making YOU a victim. I get it's hard, believe me. It's also not fair, that after being made a victim YOU have to do the work to not be anymore. But those are your choices. Get yourself help so you can get your brain out of VICTIM and be a stronger person.
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  #50  
Old 05-14-2013, 05:27 PM
El186 El186 is offline
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Hi guys. Just thought I would take a few moments for an update and to answer some questions that have been brought up during the course of discussion. This is the first attempt at poly for ALL of us. No one in the relationship has ever been poly before or ever really considered it, although they are much more open minded about things in general here in Germany. But when the hinge in the relationship found me, we fell so deeply in love and wanted to be together so badly, yet he could not give up his kids and wife....so poly became a viable option at that time and we all agreed to enter into it with none of us....expecially me having ANY idea what it would require or "how" to do it. But we have done it for 3 years now and while not all of it has been smooth sailing, most of it has been fine. I guess over the last year things have gotten harder. I began to question his relationship with his wife and as I know now, did not give it a place of value since it did not meet MY standards for a "real" marriage. I am beginning to understand that there are all kinds and that for whatever reason some things are really important to the people involed and just because I do not see it that way, does not negate the importance of it.

I DO have duties around the house. I do not do EVERYTHING, but I do mostly the kitchen and ironing with occasional cooking and I do a significant amount of secretarial work for "the hinge". For which I get a small wage. It is to show that I have a job here and so that I can have some money of my own...but it comes out to about 500$ a month....not enough to live on independently.

I HAVE tried to learn the language. I have taken several online courses and one class here where they taught the class IN the language. It was VERY difficult for me to follow. I take many meds that sometimes make me foggy and have both fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for starters) and the both of them make my head unclear at times. I graduated from my nursing class with a 4.0 GPA...I am not a dumb person. But as I have gotten older, the brain fog makes it SO hard to really LEARN anything. It just seems like things will not STICK in my head! It is SO frustrating.

As far as getting out and finding a job of my own...it would be almost impossible. First and foremost is the language barrier. No one is going to hire you unless you are FLUENT. That could take years in my case. Aside from that....you will just have to trust me (I don't have time to go into the way the employment system works here) you cannot just go to the classifieds and start looking for work. The have a very definite system that starts with a person in highschool and it goes on for several years before a place will hire you, It is REALLY hard to just go "job hunting" and come back with several prospects.

I hope that answers a few questions that people have had.

Now....for new news. Last night he and I went for a walk and ended up with the same conclusions. That it was just not working. I had decided I was going to leave and so I went inside and told her that I was leaving...that I just could not go on like this, that I was sorry. I thought that I could but was mistaken. She was upset and so...we had a "come to Jesus meeting". She talke about things she was not happy with and I shared my concerns as well. I told her all the "secrets" that I felt had been between us from the beginning. So now she knows it all. We talked and cried and went to bed without resolving anything.

This morning we tried again. And had better results. We agreed that we would divide the house. She stated that she did not want to have sex with him, so that him having sex with only me could stay that way and it was fine for her. We first talked about dividing up the suppertime and sleeping time. That he would eat and sleep with me half the time and the other half with her. That was something that neither of us were really happy with. She wanted him to eat with her everyday. I wanted him to sleep with me everynight. SO...we agreed that he would eat with her everyday with some minor exceptions and that he would spend some time with her eachevening just talking to her, alone without me around so that they could converse in thier native tongue. At the end of their time together he would come to my side of the house and sleep with me. We also agreed that I could have and wear a ring and that at some point in time it might become necessary for him to marry me...mainly to keep me in the country. He told us that as far as he was concerned he was married to us both and that he would just as soon NOT be legally married to either one of us, but he IS married and so that's ok, but that as far as he was concerned it made absolutly NO DIFFERENCE. She was upset about that for a while. But he went to talk to her and comfort her and then she was fine with it.

It could take at LEAST a year to make all the arrangements that we will need to "separate" the house, so we agreed until then, to just continue as we have been.

I am happy. I am pleased. I am willing to try this again. It has given me hope. I cannot WAIT to start decorating the house!!! And make it a nice little home for the two of us! I am glad that it is right next door so that he can go see the kids at anytime and we can still have group meals together on occasion and be in touch with the family, while still having the privacy that I am craving.

Do I still want him to marry me? Of course. But I know that it cannot be and I love him, dearly. I WANT to spend the rest of my life with him. I cannot fathom living without him. And so...I am willing to live with him and his wife and kids as long as I can have some privacy of my own.

So here we go......wish us luck!

(And to those of you who were nice and kind, offering suggestions and books/articles to read, THANK YOU!! I will still read them and I am going to find a counselor here that can help me as well. At least I have hope. That is all I need. That is what I was looking for....hope. It feels SO good to have a glimmer of it!!)
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