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  #31  
Old 05-07-2013, 01:47 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
FoL, he has said repeatedly he's seeing a therapist! Why give advice without reading his posts?
He said HE is seeing a therapist. Not the two of them. That is what I was talking about. Marital counselling. Not individual therapy. I read that. Maybe I missed something that he said after the initial remark about him liking the therapist. If so, I stand corrected.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-07-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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  #32  
Old 05-07-2013, 02:53 PM
stonebreaker stonebreaker is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Stonebreaker, welcome to the world of poly, and this board.

Texas Christians coming at poly, with a history of deception (getting pg on purpose to keep her man, then her man cheating on her 25 years later to get back at her-- talk about a long-standing grudge!).
I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm doing this to get back at her. I'm not. We've had a good life together and I'm undeniably better off with her than I would have been without her. It has nothing to do with payback. If I was going to pay her back for it, now that the kids are grown I would just divorce her. But we have a good thing that I do not want to lose.

Anyway, this centers on choice. I had a central life choice taken away from me by what I consider to be an unfair method. All I want is the opportunity to make that choice for myself. Doing that would fix things in my mind.

Yet the reality is that I already have a wife I love very much. It's ironic that the only way to resolve my dilemma in this society is to commit a greater wrong against my wife - I can either divorce her or cheat on her. I don't want to get divorced, but I needed to make this choice, so I resolved the issue by cheating. I wish I had thought outside the box before I hurt her, because I had no wish to do so. I wish there was some way I could have done this without hurting her at all.

So, by a process of elimination, I zeroed in on polyamory. Whether you agree with me or not, this seems like the most ethical solution to my problem. I still need to talk to my therapist to see if we can figure out why having the power to make this choice is important enough to me to risk wrecking my marriage. I don't know why it matters so much, but it does.

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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Yes, many Christians interpret their Bibles to say polygyny (one man, multiple women) is AOK with God and Jesus. (Polyandry [one woman, multiple men], not so much... sigh...)
Whether it's AOK or not is open to debate... but, there's nothing in the New Testament that specifically prohibits it. But that's a debate for another thread...

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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Your wife was a virgin when you and she first hooked up, and has only had you ever since? You only ever had the one child together? Was that part of your punishment for her tricking you into a shotgun marriage in the first place?
Nope, we have two kids. Wish I could have afforded more when we were younger, but I had to drop out of college and take care of the family. We're upper middle class now, I have the midlife crisis car and everything, but we'd rather wait on the grandkids.

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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
So now she's still desperate to hold onto her man. This time her ploy is getting all up close and personal with your mistress...
No. I thought that was the idea at first too. But in one of the most truly Christian acts I've ever witnessed, she has embraced U as a potential friend. Jesus said "Love thine enemy" and I believe my wife is truly sincere in her actions. It's absolutely amazing. She says there is no point in being angry. I don't understand it, I just accept it.

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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
How will this plural marriage fly in your Texas town? If abortion and dumping a woman who deceitfully got pregnant to force marriage was a no-no, will your churches accept you living with your wife, dating another with the goal of moving her in as a second wife? Or do you not care about the opinions of your religio-social group as much now as you did 25 years ago?
The second. I never toed the line as far as small town society's expectations - for example, I'm white, my wife is not - but my moral code WAS shaped largely by my environment: my parents, my church, and that small town, in that order. My dad was fired from his job in U's town partly because my folks were the only white family in town who let the black kids come over and play with their kids. In my family, it has ALWAYS been about doing what's right, more than what society expected of us.

This poly thing just feels like the right solution to this problem.
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  #33  
Old 05-07-2013, 03:28 PM
stonebreaker stonebreaker is offline
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Stonebreaker...

Cheating...not cool! Regardless of what happened in the past about the "how" or "why" you got married, your wife of 25 years was (and still is) hurt by your deception...that's not cool at all dude! Now, off of my soapbox.

Fast forward to today...from what I have read, it seems that your wife is still worried about being replaced so she is offering to 'step aside' to make you happy. I applaude your efforts to reassure her that the replacement will not happen and you don't want a divorce. However, she still feels this way after all of your reassuring efforts.

My suggestions are simple...please don't take this as me knowing the right way to handle this situation because I never been in your 'shoes' so to speak...

1) Ask your wife to join this site (or one like it). This will give her an outlet to discuss these issues with like-minded people about how she is feeling. It will also point her (as it did you) to posts or articles that may help her with dealing with your situation.

Also, this site (as well as others) will let your wife know about NRE...basically (as I understand it), it when your primary feels (or actually is) neglected because you are concentrating on building your new relationship(s).

2) Althought you have been reassuring, have you ever thought about slowing down with U until your wife is 'ready' to fully accept this? Again, just my opinion, but I would (for the sake of my marriage) ask U to understand why we have to slow down. This may SHOW your wife that you are serious about not wanting to lose her and SHOW her how committed you are to saving your marriage.

I think that this would go far with your wife...knowing that you are willing to take it slow for her feelings would let her know that you really do want your marriage to work...my Mother always say, "Actions speak louder than words!"

3) When (if) this works out like you want...take BoringGuy's advise he gave in his first response..."drink lots of water!" and take vitamins...your not young anymore. Also, make sure your wife don't feel 'left out' in that department...now that DID happen to me!

Last thing, someone (can't remember who) asked you a question and you didn't give a response....

What happens when (if) your wife or U wants another man in their life...are you prepared for (or have you even considered) that situation?

The reason I ask (again) is that both your wife and U are straight and have no desire to be with another woman, so what happens when either (or both) of them want another man?

I'm just giving you food for thought...situations that I preceive (or have been in) for you to consider.

Good luck!
newguy,

Thanks for those thoughts. Yes, we have discussed most of those options. I'll just answer them below rather that cutting and pasting into your quote:

1) I have already given her links to articles. I haven't given her a link to this forum, because I'm a little nervous that she may misinterpret some of my posts. Some of what I'm doing here is practicing for our own discussions, because one thing I am finding with her is that she is hyper analyzing every word I say; and if she can find a way to feel hurt and offer to leave again, she will. If I don't say "I still love you and want you as much as I always have" with enough conviction and emphasis, then she interprets that as I'm just saying that and maybe she should go. So when you guys misinterpret what I'm trying to communicate, then I know I need to rephrase before I talk to her.

2) Yes. My wife has requested that U and I refrain from anything physical until she has had a chance to talk to the therapist and is comfortable with it. This seems perfectly reasonable to both U and I. I hope to make this a long-term thing. Holding off a couple of months to insure long term happiness is not a problem.

3) On the physical side, at least for now, I'm discovering that being with one energizes me for being with the other one. This was something I did not anticipate. But my wife actually asked me if this was why I have been so attentive to her lately... and the answer is, yes, yes it is.

As for the other guy... I have already been asked about that one too, on a purely hypothetical basis. I admitted that right now, even though I would have no moral ground to object, I don't think I could handle that. I couldn't stand the thought of her with another guy. Weirdly enough, this was apparently the right answer. I think maybe she was interpreting my jealousy (correctly) as desire for her to remain. So I'm glad I gave the honest answer instead of the fair one.

Last edited by stonebreaker; 05-07-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05-07-2013, 03:58 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by stonebreaker View Post
You can kiss my backward primitive small-town Christian ass. My morals do not allow abandoning women and children, even if they did break their word to me. I've spent the last quarter century taking care of the result of my actions, with the outcome that said result calls me dad, hugs me daily, and will be graduating from college soon.

Exactly. YOU made the choice. Not your wife, your wife's family, god, or your backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood. Don't say the choice was "taken away" from you. You were faced with making a choice. You made it.

Haven't you read that you can control your own actions and decisions but not those of other people?

By the way, i think telling me to kiss your ass is against the rules here. I can handle it, but other people might not appreciate it. Or maybe they do.

Anyway, the purpose of my pointing this out is because that seems to be the root of why you are so comfortable with this newfound polyamorous vee and why your wife seems so ready willing and able to go along with it.
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  #35  
Old 05-07-2013, 04:02 PM
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YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
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Originally Posted by stonebreaker View Post
As for the other guy... I have already been asked about that one too, on a purely hypothetical basis. I admitted that right now, even though I would have no moral ground to object, I don't think I could handle that. I couldn't stand the thought of her with another guy. Weirdly enough, this was apparently the right answer. I think maybe she was interpreting my jealousy (correctly) as desire for her to remain. So I'm glad I gave the honest answer instead of the fair one.
What worked for me (Mono in a Mono/Poly relationship) was knowing that the option is open to me (in an effort to be "fair"), but having my partner understand that, given the way I love, if I were to start dating around, it would mean that our relationship would be in "casual" mode, and could quite possibly be replaced with something "serious". My partner would not be happy with that, but understands that with the option comes the consequence.

I personally don't plan on ever taking up this option (although there is a saying at work that "a plan is something to deviate from"), but knowing that he's thought this through and understands my Mono-ness versus his Poly-ness in this situation is a good thing.

His offering up the fact that I could date, though, was initially met with distaste on my part - that this relationship was, somehow, more of a casual one than I'd been led to believe. I'd caution anyone offering this to a Mono partner (especially one in an established, previously-Mono relationship) to beware that the offer may be taken as a "demotion" of the relationship rather than as an effort to be fair.

I would still caution you that the friendship between your wife and U may wax and wane as the emotions fluctuate. They may be great "friend material" but there are some pretty significant emotions floating around right now, and resentment is a sneaky little bugger. You will want to keep up the lines of communication with your wife and U and make sure they aren't falling prey to the "should monster" (which tends to be my big nemesis): "I should/shouldn't feel this way."

Instead, emotions just ARE. And when they ARE, they need to be addressed, or resentment can form. If you fall prey to, "I shouldn't feel this way," it can lead to burying your emotions instead. When it gets to that point, resentment is a much uglier beast to address.

Good luck...
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  #36  
Old 05-07-2013, 04:53 PM
stonebreaker stonebreaker is offline
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YAH,

Thank you for alerting me to the "should monster". That seems like a very easy trap to fall into.

On the subject of additional dating, what I said to my wife was, if she wants to date, I wouldn't stop her because that wouldn't be fair. But I couldn't stand it. All I'd ask is to let me know she is going to date, then don't tell me anything else. I'd just be too jealous. And she smiled and hugged me.
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  #37  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:27 PM
stonebreaker stonebreaker is offline
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OK, went to the therapist again today. My wife came for the first time. The therapist got my wife to open up and talk about how she felt about the relationship changing from monogamous to polyamorous. The therapist was great - she was able to bring out a lot of the hurt and insecurity that my wife is still feeling, which didn't feel too good to me (I was there as well) but I recognize that this is part of the healing process, so I kept my mouth shut and let her vent.

I think the therapist is kind of fascinated by this situation. She offered, again, to counsel all three of us in order to help form a successful union. Did I say how much I like my therapist? Anyway, when my wife was expressing how hurt she felt for about the fourth time (justifiably, IMHO), and how could she ever trust me again, the therapist asked her how my wife thought I felt after she betrayed me by trapping me into marriage with the pregnancy. And she used that word, too - "betrayed". I found that kind of funny, because "betrayed" just sounds like it should be used in soap operas and Lifetime movies, not real life . Anyway, she got my wife to think about that.

I also thought of a better analogy of how I feel about my wife's deliberately getting pregnant. I compare it to a road trip. We are starting out, with no particular destination in mind. She says, "let's go that way." So we go that way. We have adventures, good times, trouble, everything you're going to have on a road trip. We finally arrived at our destination. It's fun. I like it. I want to keep traveling with her. But now I want to pick the next destination.
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  #38  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:49 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Sure... That makes sense; but you also want to add another traveling companion. You might need a bigger vehicle or however you want to put it.
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  #39  
Old 05-09-2013, 09:44 AM
Kernow Kernow is offline
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I can understand why some people here assume that your wife is only willing to contemplate a poly relationship because she is desperate to hang on to the marriage but I don't think that is necessarily the case. Having been in a similar position I know that it wasn't like that for me, in many ways giving up on the marriage would have been an easier option and it would certainly have been a less lonely experience. Friends and family would comfort and support a wife facing divorce because she had been cheated on, but deciding to accept the other woman and try work things out is lonely and it takes a lot of inner strength because it is unlikely to be something that she can discuss with her friends and family. She will need to talk and to go over the same things many times and you will need to be patient with her and answer her questions as many times as necessary. Don't assume she is trying to catch you out, it is much more likely that she is just trying to process things in her head. Don't be afraid of her tears, if she is asking questions she needs honest answers, it is better to deal with the truth however painful.

Don't assume that you will be able to anticipate the issues that the your wife will struggle with. For me the lies and the loss of trust were a much bigger deal than the sex once I had got over the initial shock. I was angry that he had robbed me of control of my own sexual health to meet his own needs/wants and it took me a long time to deal with that. The lies also made me doubt other things and question if I could trust anyone, it really knocked my confidence.

Just accepting that your husband has another partner is very confusing but after the initial adjustment the hardest thing for me has been the secrecy. I am happy with our situation and I would like to be more open but for various reasons that is not really an option. I hate having to be cautious about what I say to other people and even worse I hate people feeling sorry for me (a few of the people who know have reacted like that).

My relationship with C (the other woman) is very good, but it has still led to a lot of confusion for me. As our relationship grew stronger and the 'husband with another woman' gradually developed into a more genuine poly arrangement I had a bit of an identity crisis. I didn't expect C to become so important to me, and I had a nagging question in my head 'am I still straight'. I have eventually decided that the answer is probably yes, but it doesn't really matter because I am me and I don't need a label.

It is good that the three of you have been talking, but keep in mind that what your wife and U say they want now may change significantly over time, that was certainly true in our case. How will you feel if the dynamics of the relationship change? I think my husband has struggled a bit because he didn't expect such a strong bond to develop between me and C. I think it was also a bit of a shock that it wasn't 'all about him' any more.

I hope you can find a way forward that works for all of you, take things slowly and don't expect too much too.
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  #40  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:16 PM
stonebreaker stonebreaker is offline
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Thanks, Kernow. Yes, I am seeing a lot of what you have felt in your own relationship.Although they are only in the beginning stages of getting to know each other, my wife and U are texting and talking so much that I actually felt a little neglected the other day. I had to laugh at myself for that.

While the emotional ride so far has been intense, I am starting to see what I hope is a permanent change in my wife's and my relationship - she is starting to talk things out a little more rather than just not saying anything until all the little things build up and she blows her top. This is something I have put up with for 25 years, and if nothing else comes out of this, this one thing will be worth it.

As far as the two women go, they have both asked me in one way or another which of them I like more. I came up with a good illustration the other day - one is like chile peppers, the other is like ice cream. I like them both, but there's really no way to compare them...
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