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  #21  
Old 05-07-2013, 03:57 AM
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nancyfore nancyfore is offline
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wow...

You sound so positive that your solution is perfect for you and your going to be perfectly happy.... Your not thinking of the two other people involved in your relationship. What happens if they aren't ok with your happy picture? It sounds a bit self serving. You cheated and your happy and though it would be nice for you if it all worked out, it sounds like your forcing your wife to either like it or leave it...

Your wife might be talking to the other woman simply because she feels that she has no other choice but to be friends with her.
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  #22  
Old 05-07-2013, 05:15 AM
stonebreaker stonebreaker is offline
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
You didn't have the choice "taken away" from you. You chose to marry "your girl" instead of not marrying her. You had a choice, and you chose.

I bet your therapist(s) would say the same thing.
No. We agreed to use birth control. An accidental pregnancy would have been one thing. But we had an agreement. She violated that agreement by deliberately going off the pill in order to get pregnant, thus forcing marriage. Her family was two doors down the street from mine, since the 8th grade. She knew exactly what the outcome would be - otherwise, why would she deliberately risk pregnancy? In the small town I grew up in, in the social class we were in, there was no choice in that situation.


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Originally Posted by nancyfore View Post
wow...

You sound so positive that your solution is perfect for you and your going to be perfectly happy.... Your not thinking of the two other people involved in your relationship. What happens if they aren't ok with your happy picture? It sounds a bit self serving. You cheated and your happy and though it would be nice for you if it all worked out, it sounds like your forcing your wife to either like it or leave it...
Well, maybe I haven't been able to completely document everything that has been happening. My wife is concerned about whether she is going to be replaced. I think somebody in this thread described it as 'grieving for the loss of the monogamous relationship', and that seems to describe her behavior perfectly. She keeps offering to step aside to make room for the new love, and I have to keep emphasizing to her that far from wanting to replace her, I want her more now than I have in a long time.

I took my wife for granted. I am not taking her for granted any more. I am working my butt off to show her that far from being replaced, she is going to receive more quality time from me from now on than she ever has before.

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Originally Posted by nancyfore View Post
Your wife might be talking to the other woman simply because she feels that she has no other choice but to be friends with her.
No, she has stated that whether or not this works out, even if she ends up divorcing me, she will continue to be friends with U. She says she truly likes her, and I believe her. They've been talking on the phone for over an hour tonight. As I said before, I don't understand women. I just accept how they feel and go from there.

Last edited by stonebreaker; 05-07-2013 at 05:31 AM.
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2013, 05:35 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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No. We agreed to use birth control. An accidental pregnancy would have been one thing. But we had an agreement. She violated that agreement by deliberately going off the pill in order to get pregnant, thus force marriage. Her family was two doors down the street from mine, since the 8th grade. She knew exactly what the outcome would be - otherwise, why would she deliberately risk pregnancy? In the small town I grew up in, in the social class we were in, there was no choice.



Yes. You still made a choice. You could have chosen NOT to marry her, backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood or no backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood. Own your own decisions like a grown man, even if you thought you didn't know any better when you made them.

Besides, you could have carried your own condoms and used them. Just sayin'...
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  #24  
Old 05-07-2013, 05:46 AM
stonebreaker stonebreaker is offline
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Yes. You still made a choice. You could have chosen NOT to marry her, backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood or no backward-primitive small-town christian neighborhood. Own your own decisions like a grown man, even if you thought you didn't know any better when you made them.

Besides, you could have carried your own condoms and used them. Just sayin'...
You can kiss my backward primitive small-town Christian ass. My morals do not allow abandoning women and children, even if they did break their word to me. I've spent the last quarter century taking care of the result of my actions, with the outcome that said result calls me dad, hugs me daily, and will be graduating from college soon.
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  #25  
Old 05-07-2013, 09:11 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Therapy is in order. You have underlying or hidden resentment over the fact that you felt obligated to marry your then-pregnant girlfriend and now-wife. You feel like she basically trapped you into marriage and the only choice was to marry her. Would you have even married her if she had not been pregnant? Was marrying her even in your thoughts?

I find it interesting that you likely felt morally obligated to step up but breaking your vows and being faithful fell by the wayside. What changed in your moral code to allow that to go on for however long? Would you have ever told your wife? Why did you not seek counselling if trust was already questionable?

I do not blame your wife for crying at times. Do not be surprised if she flips on you and tells you to end the relationship. You made a mistake, but what are the consequences? You get to keep both women? Hell of a consequence for hurting someone that you love. I would urge you to find a marriage counsellor and if possible, someone that is poly friendly. Did you offer to step away from your relationship to heal your marriage? The other woman should understand that. When the core relationship is rocky and on unstable ground, that is the start of many problems. Something so minor and trivial will explode into something unfathomable. Believe me.

I am not trying to discourage you from poly, but the timing not immaculate. How long have you been having the affair? Too much is happening. This is new to all of you but time to grieve is needed. Time to adjust is necessary, too. She has to get used to the idea of you sharing your life with someone else. She has to get used to sleeping alone if you stay at her place. She has to get used to you sharing important moments with her and the other person. Major changes.

Poly after an affair is not impossible. It takes more work than the norm. Every step of the way, you are going to have to be mindful of your wife. Can you do it without a therapist? I would not advise that at all. Do not think poly is the answer to all your prayers. You might be in for a rude awakening. Read some of the threads in the relationships section to get an idea of some of the issues fellow polyamourists face every day. Be realistic and remember the two other people. Take your wife's cordiality towards her new metamour with a grain of salt. That is not to say that they will not be friends, but the fact still remains that she was sleeping with her husband behind her back and is half of the reason why she is hurting, shedding tears, and fears being replaced.
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Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-07-2013 at 09:18 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-07-2013, 09:21 AM
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Emm Emm is offline
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Originally Posted by stonebreaker View Post
I've spent the last quarter century taking care of the result of my actions, with the outcome that said result calls me dad, hugs me daily, and will be graduating from college soon.
And yet you claim not to have chosen to do so. Just because one choice sucks more than the other doesn't mean it was never there to be chosen.
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  #27  
Old 05-07-2013, 12:44 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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There is always choice. You face some now.

While I am glad that you are not angry at how your life turned out, I am disturbed by your attitude and resentment toward wife. Dragging things up from the past is not helpful. Even if you still need to lay them to rest appropriately? It's mixing apples and oranges.

Rather than dump that at her -- because she's now the mother of your child AND the woman you want to forgive an affair and enter into polyship -- you could secure another counselor to sort that out on your own if your current one is not helping. Guard against using that as a "guilt trip card" to get what you want with the polyship thing.

A divorce might serve you if you still feel that deep of resentment and like your life "got postponed" or something. Even if you are not angry about how that life turned out. While it entails short term break up feelings that affects your short term health (ex: stress), it could lead to long term health improvements for all.

Could help you let go of resentment, maybe freedom from cheating affair for all, and for wife? Maybe puts you all on equal footing if she is financially dependent and just going along with it because of that. Puts you and U on equal psychological footing because then wife can't hold "do x or divorce!" over your heads. Not saying any of you would use unfair cards, but making them non-issues is something to think about.

Could think the "divorce option" all the way through and list pros/cons. A serious evaluation with your wife... AND U. She doesn't have any say in the marriage staying together or not, but she could have feelings/fears to air about about the state of the marital union and it's impact on the potential polyship.

If your wife is going through the stages of grief, could read on that. And examine polyhell article together. Maybe secure a separate grief counselor for her?

This one describe one way to open a formerly monogamous relationship. Maybe it could help when you are ready to move on that.

But I don't suggest rushing into polyship here -- imagine together what that might be, sure. But the FIRST main focus could be healing all these old hurts (resentment) and new hurts (affair) and as yet unknown hurts (does U have any?) so that all players are healthy and WELL before entering into a new thing. It could be a time for Radical Honesty now.

Polyshipping is intense and can result in magnifying ALL previous cracks. Could not Open when Broken. Could get solid first in preparation.

Could also talk about the plan for what happens if after all this consideration and preparation it is still just not a runner. Neither of these women is obligated to go along with it. So back at that square -- do the breaking up talks. Whether it is break up with U, the wife, or both.

Do the W's and H' as deep as possible to assess you, wife and U's fitness for this.
  • WHO is polyshipping? How does this affect polyship success?
  • WHAT is the plan? How does this affect polyship success?
  • WHEN are we polyshipping? How does this affect polyship success?
  • WHERE are we polyshipping?How does this affect polyship success?
  • HOW are we going to polyshipping? How does this affect polyship success?
  • WHY are we polyshipping? How does this affect polyship success?

Or go through the whole pre-marriage lists/courses an change "marriage" to "3 person polyship" and assess your collective fitness for this that way.

You already had a sloppy start to polyshipping potential with the cheating affair. Not at the actual polyshipping yet. But could guard against more sloppy beginnings and sloppy endings.

You have opportunity to make NEW choices here. Choose well.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-07-2013 at 01:15 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-07-2013, 12:49 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by stonebreaker View Post

I also went and talked to a therapist today about the situation. I liked her very much. After I had described how these women make me feel, before I even asked a question about it, she recommended finding a polyamory support group. She also offered to counsel us as a group, although I think that might be a little premature. But she was very supportive.
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Originally Posted by stonebreaker View Post
You are absolutely correct. If you go back to my original post, you'll notice I mentioned seeing a therapist...
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post

If I were you, I would look into counselling like now.
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Originally Posted by stonebreaker View Post


My wife has emailed the therapist I talked to the other day about scheduling a session. After each of us has a few individual sessions, I expect this will turn into relationship counseling. Probably will include U at some point as well. I like my therapist. A lot.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Therapy is in order... Why did you not seek counselling if trust was already questionable?

...Can you do it without a therapist? I would not advise that at all.
FoL, he has said repeatedly he's seeing a therapist! Why give advice without reading his posts?
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There's no lying in polyamory!

I'm a 58 year old woman with 2 partners:
miss pixi, my live-in gf, 36 (together since Jan '09)
Ginger, bf, 61, married, lives nearby (together since Jan '12)
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  #29  
Old 05-07-2013, 12:59 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Stonebreaker, welcome to the world of poly, and this board.

Texas Christians coming at poly, with a history of deception (getting pg on purpose to keep her man, then her man cheating on her 25 years later to get back at her-- talk about a long-standing grudge!).

Yes, many Christians interpret their Bibles to say polygyny (one man, multiple women) is AOK with God and Jesus. (Polyandry [one woman, multiple men], not so much... sigh...)

Your wife was a virgin when you and she first hooked up, and has only had you ever since? You only ever had the one child together? Was that part of your punishment for her tricking you into a shotgun marriage in the first place?

So now she's still desperate to hold onto her man. This time her ploy is getting all up close and personal with your mistress...

How will this plural marriage fly in your Texas town? If abortion and dumping a woman who deceitfully got pregnant to force marriage was a no-no, will your churches accept you living with your wife, dating another with the goal of moving her in as a second wife? Or do you not care about the opinions of your religio-social group as much now as you did 25 years ago?
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

There's no lying in polyamory!

I'm a 58 year old woman with 2 partners:
miss pixi, my live-in gf, 36 (together since Jan '09)
Ginger, bf, 61, married, lives nearby (together since Jan '12)
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2013, 01:42 PM
newguy newguy is offline
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Stonebreaker...

Cheating...not cool! Regardless of what happened in the past about the "how" or "why" you got married, your wife of 25 years was (and still is) hurt by your deception...that's not cool at all dude! Now, off of my soapbox.

Fast forward to today...from what I have read, it seems that your wife is still worried about being replaced so she is offering to 'step aside' to make you happy. I applaude your efforts to reassure her that the replacement will not happen and you don't want a divorce. However, she still feels this way after all of your reassuring efforts.

My suggestions are simple...please don't take this as me knowing the right way to handle this situation because I never been in your 'shoes' so to speak...

1) Ask your wife to join this site (or one like it). This will give her an outlet to discuss these issues with like-minded people about how she is feeling. It will also point her (as it did you) to posts or articles that may help her with dealing with your situation.

Also, this site (as well as others) will let your wife know about NRE...basically (as I understand it), it when your primary feels (or actually is) neglected because you are concentrating on building your new relationship(s).

2) Althought you have been reassuring, have you ever thought about slowing down with U until your wife is 'ready' to fully accept this? Again, just my opinion, but I would (for the sake of my marriage) ask U to understand why we have to slow down. This may SHOW your wife that you are serious about not wanting to lose her and SHOW her how committed you are to saving your marriage.

I think that this would go far with your wife...knowing that you are willing to take it slow for her feelings would let her know that you really do want your marriage to work...my Mother always say, "Actions speak louder than words!"

3) When (if) this works out like you want...take BoringGuy's advise he gave in his first response..."drink lots of water!" and take vitamins...your not young anymore. Also, make sure your wife don't feel 'left out' in that department...now that DID happen to me!

Last thing, someone (can't remember who) asked you a question and you didn't give a response....

What happens when (if) your wife or U wants another man in their life...are you prepared for (or have you even considered) that situation?

The reason I ask (again) is that both your wife and U are straight and have no desire to be with another woman, so what happens when either (or both) of them want another man?

I'm just giving you food for thought...situations that I preceive (or have been in) for you to consider.

Good luck!
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