Indie... Solo... Poly...

[nycindie]

So, Lively and I have plans to get together again this week. As I stated in the "Poly Successes" thread, this was a huge relief to me. After being dumped so unceremoniously by Shorty once he knew my feelings for him, I was afraid it would happen again with Lively. But he's coming over and our communications are like they always are.

I bet some of the folks here, who are very connected to their Blackberries and Facebook, would not be able to stand how Lively and I communicate to make plans. Very often we don't reply to each other until 2 or 3 days after getting a message. Some messages never get answered. It's all done via text and sometimes an email, but rarely a phone call. I think in the three months we've been seeing each other, we've only spoken on the phone twice. He is very reliable and so I never have needed to worry about following up. If we have plans and it's been a few days since we communicated, one or the other of us will touch base that day with a "Tonight still good?" text. We've just never felt the need to pressure each other, and there's always enough flexibility in our schedules that we don't need to be in touch every day, or even every other day.

And, although I sometimes muse about things I would like to do with him someday, we never really make plans for the future. It's always figured out week-by-week. But there's never any tension nor expectation, and that is very nice and freeing. For a casual FWB-type relationship, I think it's just about perfect. There is an ease and lots of caring between us. The only thing that I wish were different would be his comfort level with public displays of affection. I am naturally very demonstrative and so it's hard to reign that in. Sometimes it takes me a little by surprise when he initiates physical affection or sex, especially if we've been out and he's been what I consider so very reserved. But dang, it's a pleasant surprise!

So, I am looking forward to dating other guys, but just taking it slowly if it feels right to do so. This summer was a weird period of not wanting to socialize very much at all, with friends or anyone, and I would sometimes stay inside my apartment for days at a time, or only go out when necessary. With the divorce and financial problems, it is an easy choice for me to hibernate. I did meet someone this week but it probably won't go anywhere. He and I met on OKC and there just were no sparks when we met in person. So, I will keep moving forward. I am also renewing my dedication and commitment to losing weight and getting back into shape. That is something that I think will help me feel enormously better about myself. Next time my ex sees me, I plan on looking fabulous!

[nycindie]

Okay, so I'm about to vent a little here.

I recently decided to see if anything fruitful could come out of Polymatchmaker. So, I improved my profile there, added a pic and looked around. Slim pickin's in these here parts, but whatever. It was a relief to have a profile where I could state what I was looking for and use poly lingo, whereas my OKC profile is much more carefully worded in order to attract a wider range of possibilities.

Anyhoo...

I saw a guy whom I thought was attractive, and what he wrote in his profile seemed to indicate that he was interesting and we might have things in common. So, I sent a short message and he wrote back a short, polite, friendly message, in which he included his email address. I responded telling him I wasn't comfortable yet with exchanging real emails, and preferred keeping our communications on the PMM site for now. Hey, I do the same thing at OKC until I have a good feel for someone. It's a safety issue, for me.

In that message, I also asked him about his interest in Tantra, which he mentioned in both his profile and his message to me -- the reason being that I've known quite a few New Agey types who get into a superiority headtrip about Tantric sex and I don't want to be involved with anyone like that! He replied saying it was an interest of his, basically, but that it wasn't all that "vital" to him, and if a partner was into it, cool, but not a requirement. Okay, that seems reasonable to me.

Well, a few days pass before I wrote back. I realized that his PMM profile didn't really explain his approach to poly so I asked him about that. And his answer was so full of arrogance, I think I am still a bit stunned. Am I wrong? Here it is:

I re-read your profile and saw that this is all new to you - you haven't had much (any?) actual experience in real life. I did not catch that first time around.

I don't do casual, or FWB. Many people today have this confused with Poly, or feel a need to call something Poly that isn't because they are uncomfortable thinking of themselves as promiscuous (no accident the Poly 'bible' is called the Ethical Slut).

I am old fashioned and have been poly for many many years. My 3 basic relationships are with women I have spent a total of 24 years of my life with, all of whom have lived with me in the apartment I still inhabit. We not longer have any physical relations, but are in contact regularly, and I still help 2 of them with $ occasionally, they stay with me when they visit new york etc.

I also am involved with the sex positive community in nyc, do nude beach and other clothing optional events, and of course Tantra work. In ONE of the tantra workshops (by Charles Muir) the Saturday evening homework is to be chosen by a woman (the men stand in the center of the room, eyes closed and wait) and then you go off together and the woman receives 3 30 minute sessions of g-spot massage. Not a lot of non-poly or non-sex positive people (again, not necessarily the same thing) can handle this on the part of their partner.

In my experience, having a day job, going to the gym and etc., making art at night and on the weekends and dealing with vanilla Friends and family does not leave a lot of time for a multiplicity of intimate emotional connections the way I do it. Your notion of multiple primaries that you are going to manifest is, at the very least, optimistic.

I am old fashioned, expect real intimacy combined with commitment, responsibility and shared sacrifice or compromise when needed. A lot of work IRL.

Not to be a wet blanket or anything, but as in all things, in my experience there is a BIG difference between reading a book, or having a theory online and the actual doing of the thing in the real, lived and felt world.

Here is a test if you like - ask any of your friends what they think, you met someone online who is 'separated', and who won't give you his e-mail address, will only communicate in the -mail on the site and see what they say.

I think the fit is not right for me. Should have read your profile more carefully in the beginning.
I apologize for wasting your time.

Oh, I'm so-o-o grateful he explained polyamory to me! What assumptions he has made! For some reason, he thinks I am this little newbie who has no clue. Or that I want casual flings, even though my profile specifically states I do not want that.

I've been to sex positive events in NYC, but I haven't gone back (it meets monthly) only because I feel like people there are just trying too hard to prove something. I've had more lovers and one-night stands than I can count, but I don't need to wave a fucking flag about it. I consider myself fairly open-minded, well-rounded, and open to possibility, even if I choose to explore new things slowly. I'm cautious. But because I'm fairly new at poly (less than two years) and keep my profile "respectable" and lighthearted, I don't make the grade for someone so high and mighty as himself?

Geez! This kind of conceit just bugs the shit out of me. Do I have to get naked on a beach or have a stranger finger me in order to be considered enlightened? What an arrogant moron. I don't know why this pisses me off so much. It's not that I care whether or not I date this guy, but I guess I just can't stand this kind of smug superiority complex.

I wrote back:

Hmm, this is interesting. Just because I'm new (less than two years) to polyamory doesn't mean I'm inexperienced or only read a book about it. Wow, that's a huge assumption to make.

I'm not some idiot who thinks, wow, now that I'm divorced I'll get me some boyfriends, wheee!

Whatever, hun. Your loss.

Whew! Now that felt good to get out, glad I vented!

[Minxxa]

Wow, what a winner! Hey, lucky you got that response or you might have had to find out in person what kind of person he is!

Sheesh!!!

Definitely a close call there...

[TruckerPete]

And that's what we call "Polier Than Thou."

[AnnabelMore]

Ew, whatta jerk. Yeah, good thing he showed his true colors earlybefore you could get sucked in. Just... yuck.

[Magdlyn]

Pompous ass! That was hilarious.

[nycindie]

Haha, I know.

What about the email thing? He says that someone who is separated and doesn't want to give out an email address is cause for concern. What does being separated have to do with it? If I were cheating, I'd say I was single.

I have found on OKC that lots of guys will give me their email address in the first or second message, but I wait until we have had a little back-and-forth before I give out any personal info. No one has ever balked about that. Coincidentally, there are stickies all over the PMM forums warning members NOT TO give out personal email addresses right away.

Are men really so dense about safety that they don't understand why a woman would be cautious about this kind of thing? Or am I being too cautious?

[opalescent]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Or am I being too cautious?

No.

I'm very curious how he came to make these assumptions. I know it's really not worth asking him what's going on in his head. Your time is precious! Still, curious.

[Minxxa]

No, I don't think you're being too cautious at all.

My first gut reaction to his implying that by you being separated and not giving out email is he's somehow "hurt" that you didn't give it out immediately and he felt immediately rejected and is trying to make you feel like something is wrong with you for not givng it out.

Either that, or hes one of those guys that thinks X means Y and there can be NO OTHER REASON because his itty bitty mind doesn't understand the multitude of reasons that people do things. I had a boss like that. He was an asshat.

But yeah... no, guys like him are why you don't give out that information until you're sure there's a moving forward to be had.

[nycindie]

There are so few people in NYC on PMM, so fuck it. I did a search for a wide age range of non-smoking straight men (those were pretty much my only parameters), and got just 14 results, only four of which had pictures. Two of the guys I'd already blocked because I've met or seen them at poly gatherings and know they are creeps. NYC's population is around 84k, so I wonder why it's such a lame site for poly dating here.


I've been chatting the last day or two with a guy on OKC, who is 47 and his parents had an open relationship when he was a kid. He seems really interesting, but lives in another state. Still close enough to me, though, for a relationship (lots of people in the tristate area come into the city for whatever), so we'll see. He's a good writer and I'm enjoying our conversations. I just interpreted a dream of his, and wonder what he'll think of it.