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  #41  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BigGuy View Post
2. Controlling others actions to manage your insecurities is generally not a good idea.

3. Jealousy is either a phobic response or it is a warning that something is wrong with the relatiinship. Only you can determine which it is. If it is phobic, then you must decide if you want fear to control your relationship. If you were afraid of flying, would you make your SO always take the bus?
BigGuy, I read through this whole host of responses to the issue at hand (well, I did skip past a couple of posts) and this very brief synopsis addressed the situation perfectly.

The idea that people should restrict their behavior or take actions in service to someones insecurity is just instating a terrible rule instead of addressing the actual problem. Our partners should not have to bear the cost of our shortcomings.
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  #42  
Old 05-11-2013, 11:34 PM
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Dirtclustit I would be happy to respond to your questions if you could get to the point instead of wandering all over the map so to speak.

The over wording of your posts is not having the effect/impression you are hoping to make. It makes you come across like a homeless person on a street worner shouting nonsense.
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  #43  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:17 AM
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Well, after reading so many posts, books, and articles over the last couple weeks that my head hurts and my eyes are bugging out, I've decided to take a step back from the poly table. My GF and I still hope this is something we can revisit at a later time, but too many things I read, especially in some of the linked articles in this thread, resonated with me, and in a bad way. It seems that poly is and is not many things I thought it wasn't and is, if that makes sense. I still maintain that the message could have been conveyed in a less sarcastic and condescending manner, but I still appreciate those who took the time to read and chime in.

I just have one parting question:
In most monogamous relationships, rules and jealousy are the norm, in a way. That is, there is usually a mindset that, if one person cheats, it will cause intense jealousy in the other person, and will probably cause the end of the relationship. There is, therefore, a spoken or unspoken rule to remain faithful. However, I get the impression, from most of the responses in this thread, that rules and jealousy are always bad things. How do you reconcile this view with monogamy? Do monogamists "have it wrong"?

But for now, I'm going to go do some serious thinking and soul searching. Till next time....
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  #44  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:42 AM
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I get the impression, from most of the responses in this thread, that rules and jealousy are always bad things. How do you reconcile this view with monogamy? Do monogamists "have it wrong"?

But for now, I'm going to go do some serious thinking and soul searching. Till next time....
As a Mono person in a Mono/Poly relationship, I'll take a stab at this from my POV...

I find that my jealousy tends to be related to my own insecurities in my relationship. In a monogamous relationship, you don't have nearly as many opportunities to examine this. Most things that are "against the rules" in a Mono relationship would be things that would trigger jealousy. It's not that they have it wrong, but the structure of the relationship usually avoids the triggers... as long as the structure is adhered to.

Sometimes, in a Mono relationship, you still have jealousy/envy issues (not necessarily affair-type stuff, but more "I wish you spent more time at home rather than out with your friends" type of stuff), but there doesn't seem to be much motivation to work through them as much as there is in a poly relationship. In a Poly relationship, you acknowledge that there can be other people who are just as important to your partner as you are, and you need to work through your feelings keeping that in mind. You can't be "THE most important thing" in your partner's life, and you can't take that status for granted.

To a Mono, that can be scary as hell and really difficult to navigate at first, so rules are developed to help them feel more secure.

Whether or not that's a permanent or temporary thing tends to be personal and within the context of the relationship... some folks are good with rules that preserve the status of the primary couple, some want a more egalitarian model.

So... short of the long, for some people, rules are wrong, but for many folks who arrived in a Poly relationship kicking and screaming, having rules is the only way they could do it. Jealousy is an emotion, usually (for me) brought about by insecurity, and a Poly relationship is a really good mechanism for triggering those insecurities. Mono relationships don't necessarily "have it wrong" but they tend to be structured in a way that avoids jealousy, by having a lot of rules (written and unwritten). Clear as mud?
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  #45  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloudy View Post
Well, after reading so many posts, books, and articles over the last couple weeks that my head hurts and my eyes are bugging out, I've decided to take a step back from the poly table. My GF and I still hope this is something we can revisit at a later time, but too many things I read, especially in some of the linked articles in this thread, resonated with me, and in a bad way. It seems that poly is and is not many things I thought it wasn't and is, if that makes sense. I still maintain that the message could have been conveyed in a less sarcastic and condescending manner, but I still appreciate those who took the time to read and chime in.

I just have one parting question:
In most monogamous relationships, rules and jealousy are the norm, in a way. That is, there is usually a mindset that, if one person cheats, it will cause intense jealousy in the other person, and will probably cause the end of the relationship. There is, therefore, a spoken or unspoken rule to remain faithful. However, I get the impression, from most of the responses in this thread, that rules and jealousy are always bad things. How do you reconcile this view with monogamy? Do monogamists "have it wrong"?

But for now, I'm going to go do some serious thinking and soul searching. Till next time....
Just wanted to say, I respect you for listening, even when it wasn't easy, and for thinking hard about things before proceeding. I hope you two can find the right place for you, whether it's in monogamy or polyamory.

Interesting question!

I would say yes and no. If you're a jealous person, I think it's good to examine that. Where is it coming from? Is it just a pre-programmed response from society telling you that you should feel this way, or that you will lose your partner if you don't? Is it a matter of insecurity? If either of those things are true, maybe you'd be better off without it. Maybe it's something you can learn to discard/overcome. On the other hand, some people are just naturally jealous and aren't capable of shedding it so easily, or at all. As long as it doesn't get to the level of being controlling and crazy, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If you're one of those people, you probably shouldn't do poly for reasons that are obvious enough that I assume I don't have to go into it, but it is, in fact, ok to be who you are.

Same deal for rules, basically. Do you have them because society says you should, or because you're too insecure in your relationship to loosen up on them? Or do they serve a function that makes you both happier and/or makes your relationship workable? Rules can be a good or at least a neutral thing, as long as they're not controlling or crazy. But, again, if you find that having a lot of rules works best for you, poly may not be your best bet, primarily due to the fact that involving more people in your lives means you're creating new dynamics where those rules might not be functional.

In other words, jealousy and rules are generally a bad thing in the context of poly, which is why you're seeing that attitude here on a poly website. But not everybody needs to live in a poly context to be happy, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some would disagree, but I really shake my head at the people who think that everyone has to live the same way they do, whether they're coming at it from a mono perspective or a poly one. The important thing is just to examine the life you're living, be aware that there are options, and consciously choose the best one for you.
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Last edited by AnnabelMore; 05-13-2013 at 12:49 AM.
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  #46  
Old 05-13-2013, 01:10 AM
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YouAreHere and AnnabelMore: Many thanks to both of you. Both responses made good sense and helped me to further wrap my head around all this. So much for my n00b brain to take in!
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  #47  
Old 05-13-2013, 01:11 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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OK, this is my POV....

Quote:
In most monogamous relationships, rules and jealousy are the norm, in a way.
I think in ALL relationship shapes, there are agreements between the partners. At the very minimum -- they agree to be in relationship and associate with each other at all!

I think in ALL relationship shapes, situations could come up that trigger "jealousy." It's only an emotion after all -- like happy, sad, angry, excited, etc.

Quote:
That is, there is usually a mindset that, if one person cheats, it will cause intense jealousy in the other person, and will probably cause the end of the relationship.
If my spouse cheats and breaks agreements without notice, rather than just come to me up front to renegotiate agreements? I will be ANGRY at the LIE and putting my sex health at risk because we are fluid bonded. It's a violation of trust. There would have to be a taking of accounts and reconciling and yes. I could choose exercise my option to no longer participate and leave.

I'd be fine if he just told me the agreements no longer can be kept because he wants a change -- so we'd talk it out. Agreements to "check in first" is upheld, trust is still maintained, we now have sex with condoms and other barriers, and start doing labs again. I can be safe in my body health and he can enjoy his new honey. Or we choose to break up-- cleanly before starting something new elsewhere. Either is preferable to LIES to me.

Quote:
There is, therefore, a spoken or unspoken rule to remain faithful. However, I get the impression, from most of the responses in this thread, that rules and jealousy are always bad things. How do you reconcile this view with monogamy? Do monogamists "have it wrong"?
Jealousy is an emotion. It is not a "bad thing." It may not be one of the "fun" emotions to feel, but it's just an emotion. Let it blow on through and do its job.

I think it is the HOW persons process jealousy that could be categorized as "well handled" or "not well handled." Your senses are there to give you information about the world around you. You smell burning, you go check it out. Maybe the toast burned in the toaster. You see it is raining? You get an umbrella before you leave the house. You feel hurt I punch you in the nose? You tell me to cut it out, get ice, punch back, or all the above! You feel jealousy -- some need is going unmet. You respond to the sense alerting you and you figure out what that is all about and solve the problem.

The people in the polyship have the freedom to co-create their agreements however it is they want between them. Lots or few.

Neither approach is "good" or "bad" -- the approach just has to serve the needs of the people actually in the polyship for it to get along well and harmoniously as compatible players.


Quote:
My GF and I still hope this is something we can revisit at a later time, but too many things I read, especially in some of the linked articles in this thread, resonated with me, and in a bad way.
Good for you both in deciding to take a time out to better think on things! And I mean it.

Taking a step back to better talk out "how" you guys want to "do poly" together so you can do it well and do it in a healthy way together is a good thing. Sort yourselves out, do whatever personal skills growth you need to do to prepare better, become secure in yourselves, define your boundaries and agreements and expectations. You will have grown closer for having shared the experience and will have grown stronger in your intrapersonal and interpersonal relationshipping skills. You both could benefit from that in yourselves and with each other even if there never are any other poly partners.

GL!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-13-2013 at 01:31 AM.
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  #48  
Old 05-13-2013, 03:00 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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YouAreHere and AnnabelMore: Many thanks to both of you. Both responses made good sense and helped me to further wrap my head around all this. So much for my n00b brain to take in!


I think this is the first time someone reacted to the "unicorn-hunter bashing" in a way that the advice was not all for nothing. If one person can be receptive, so can others, and it gives me hope that the OP may one day realize their dream of a ffm triad that has realistic expectations and satisfies all three people.

It would be grooovy if Cloudy stayed on the forum, and if your girlfriend joined too.
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  #49  
Old 05-13-2013, 03:07 AM
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Dagferi Dagferi is online now
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Hey we are start somewhere.

Cloudy please stay around . I wish more people were open to advice.
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  #50  
Old 05-13-2013, 03:46 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I think this is the first time someone reacted to the "unicorn-hunter bashing" in a way that the advice was not all for nothing.
Can't think of a specific example, but I'm pretty sure there have been a couple of other times. Also, I think a lot of times people can't hear advice they don't like right away, but may be able to assimilate it later (in some cases probably even thinking it was their own idea), perhaps after they're no longer posting.
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