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  #31  
Old 05-04-2013, 01:34 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy View Post
So when we are with another girl, we aren't sharing HER, we are sharing the EXPERIENCE of being with her. We are doing some thing together that we have a common interest in.

In some ways, it's like two people playing golf together, or singing together, or underwater basket weaving together, or whatever else they have in common. I realize that's an overly simplistic view, considering we're talking about a person, but I hope that gets the idea across.
Pardon me for separating the word something into some thing, but can you see how someone might wonder, from your own words, if Hypothetical Woman is really a woman,, an actual person to you, or just a living, breathing sex toy. By your words up here, she's not even a 'her' anymore, she's now been reduced to an 'experience.'

You and your girlfriend like to play golf, so you go out and get yourselves some golf clubs and have a great experience together and put them in the closet, where they won't get in your way, when you're done with them. But you'd like them there all the time, whenever you want to go golfing again, so you don't have to keep looking for a new set of clubs every third or fourth time you want to golf.

You want threesomes so you go shopping for a hot bi babe and have a great experience together and stick her in a closet where she won't get in your way, when you're done with her? But you'd like her there all the time, whenever you want a hot threesome again, so you don't have to keep looking for a new hot bi babe every third or fourth time you want a hot threesome.

I got the feeling you intended to somehow clarify your intentions, thus proving BG's sarcasm misplaced, unnecessary, and out of line? If so, all you did for me was strengthen the call for exactly that sort of sarcastic response. What you're describing does not sound to me like a genuine relationship. Unless you feel you have genuine relationships with your golf clubs? Maybe you do.

Quote:
And I think it is this shared experience that always makes my GF and I feel so good about our relationship after a threesome.
Okay, yes, exactly. What BG was trying to point out. What I obviously too subtly pointed out. It's all about you and your girlfriend. No concept here of you and Hypothetical Woman having a wonderful shared experience with the current GF. Or HW and GF having an amazing shared experience. No, it's all about you and GF--need I stress that again, you and GF--having experiences together. As I read your posts, this HW is just a nameless, faceless body who exists to give you and your GF this amazing experience.
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  #32  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:23 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I imagine that a likely response from a well intentioned person reading WH's post (or any of this, really) would be "Ok, so my word choice came out weird... that doesn't mean I'd ever act the way being described! What an absurd and unfair leap to make."

The thing is, acting that way when you talk that way and take that general approach is so common that handy tools like this flowchart have been devised: http://tacit.livejournal.com/295369.html.
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  #33  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:20 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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I wasn't even being sarcastic. I was exaggerating in places to make a point, and i tried to be funny about the "THE poly community" thing, but being sarcastic just for the hell of it is frowned upon when the only purpose of it is to ridicule without merit.
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  #34  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:51 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I've voiced my preference: let's date other girls and that's all. She then voiced her preference: let's date other girls AND I date other guys. So what do we do when those preferences don't align just right?
As for your suggestion, that's exactly where we are right now. Everything is on hold until we both figure out exactly where we stand and why.
You could choose to be assertive in your communication and proactive for your own best healths -- physical health, mental health, emotional health, spiritual health at least. The other three wellness dimensions are financial health, environmental health, and social health.

You could lay out all options and state your LIMIT and let her make her next chess move.

You could determine within yourself if your preference limit is a SOFT limit that could change over time, a HARD LIMIT that will never change no matter how much time goes by, or that at this point you just cannot tell what kind, but so know it is some kind of a LIMIT.

In my decision making process? Anything less than a joyful and resounding "YES!" is not a "YES!"
  • A "no" is not a "yes."
  • A "maybe" is not a "yes."
  • And "I don't know" is not a "yes"

If I don't know if a limit is a soft limit or a hard limit? I call it a hard limit then.

So you could tell your GF something like this:
"Well, this is a personal limitation for me at this time. I'm not willing to be in polyship with you where you date women, I date women, we share women. AND you also date men. THAT'S MY LIMIT. I won't hold you back if you want to go there, but there I cannot and will not go with you."
And she makes her choice next. She can give up the want to be with other men. Or she can give up the want to be with you.

I know it is sometimes hard to FEEL while going through it, but do it anyway. Come to a decision of some kind after laying out all the options on the table.

You will be alright.

Regardless of the outcome of that... could also do the work you need to do to become more secure in yourself for YOU.

Hang in there.

GL!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-05-2013 at 01:47 AM.
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  #35  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:07 PM
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Cloudy..

You need to read this. It will help you understand why some of us get our hackles up overUnicorn Hunters.

http://davidlnoble.com/so-somebody-c...nicorn-hunter/
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  #36  
Old 05-11-2013, 07:33 AM
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When it's a POLICY enforced by a man onto his female partner, that she can only have same-sex liaisons, or additionally must "share" her sex partners with him like toys, but he can have sex with whomever he wants, rather than an AGREEMENT that everyone is happy about (and not just agreed to and put up with until the guy gets past it), a One Penis Policy is a double standard that is ALWAYS sexist, selfish, controlling, and dismissive of women. It would be a lot easier if the OPP-enforcing guy would just announce how chauvinistic and insecure he is, and then go work on it. As someone else said, read a little bit more around this forum. Here are some links to some good, thoughtful threads here on OPPs, which will give you more perspectives on it:

One Penis Policy

OPP, unicorns, and derogatory poly terminology

One-Dick Fantasies


Cloudy, FWIW, I thought Vinccenzo's post in this thread was the most important one for you to digest regarding the underlying patriarchal beliefs that are ingrained in our society. Those beliefs are like default programming and they come into play in insidious ways. The dynamic she described is so relevant, so common, and very much a part of what is drilled into the male mind (at least in western society)! What she described is usually glaringly obvious to everyone surrounding men like you who only want a OPP - yet you immediately discarded her suggestions! That even says a lot -- when people ask for UN-sugar-coated truth and then immediately dismiss something out of hand without even considering it, that means a nerve has been hit! But for self-preservation, the blinders must stay on! I would suggest you sit with her post and let some of it sink in, and drill down into your psyche with deeper questions about attitudes, not about your girlfriend and how much you love women and enjoy their bodies in bed with you and her, but about the beliefs instilled in you, fears about threats to one's manhood, what it means to be a man, possessiveness/ownership/dominance of men over women, and old patterns of thinking. Seriously, what you are talking about is deep shit and should be examined more closely in an"inner knowledge seeking" way.

Also, I have another question for you. What if your GF was straight and NOT bisexual, but came out to you that she is poly? She would only want to be with men. Would that end your relationship? Would you still tell her she has to be with only women and expect her to bring women home to have sex with you, too? Or would you discuss the possibilities and start working on your inhibitions and insecurities about it to see if you could accept her having the kind of love and intimacy she wants in her life? Since poly is about love and not just sex, why would the genitals of anyone she's interested in matter to you, really? It's her body, her heart, and her life. How can it sit well with you that you are dictating who she can share herself with? As I see it, if she wants to share herself with a man and you don't like it, the work to be done is all inner stuff on your part -- to come to terms with your fears, insecurities, and need to be in control, but it isn't about imposing rules on her, a grown woman who is free to choose how she lives her life and whom she wants in it. Shackles may keep her close to you, but they eventually leave bruises and scars.
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-11-2013 at 07:46 AM.
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  #37  
Old 05-11-2013, 07:48 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Since poly is about love and not just sex, why would the genitals of anyone she's interested in matter to you, really?
My theory is... [WARNING: Captain Obvious is Obvious]:
Quote:
Because some guys with small dicks are intimidated by guys with dicks.
^not referring to a specific individual on this forum or elsewhere, living, dead, or otherwise. And this is strictly MY OPINION and not based on facts of any kind, animal, mineral, or vegetable... Well actually, it does depend on the vegetable, but that's another story and shall be told another time.
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  #38  
Old 05-11-2013, 10:20 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default This type of talk reeks of the philosophy of Franklin's fallacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
Pardon me for separating the word something into some thing, but can you see how someone might wonder, from your own words, if Hypothetical Woman is really a woman,, an actual person to you, or just a living, breathing sex toy. By your words up here, she's not even a 'her' anymore, she's now been reduced to an 'experience.'

You and your girlfriend like to play golf, so you go out and get yourselves some golf clubs and have a great experience together and put them in the closet, where they won't get in your way, when you're done with them. But you'd like them there all the time, whenever you want to go golfing again, so you don't have to keep looking for a new set of clubs every third or fourth time you want to golf.

You want threesomes so you go shopping for a hot bi babe and have a great experience together and stick her in a closet where she won't get in your way, when you're done with her? But you'd like her there all the time, whenever you want a hot threesome again, so you don't have to keep looking for a new hot bi babe every third or fourth time you want a hot threesome.

I got the feeling you intended to somehow clarify your intentions, thus proving BG's sarcasm misplaced, unnecessary, and out of line? If so, all you did for me was strengthen the call for exactly that sort of sarcastic response. What you're describing does not sound to me like a genuine relationship. Unless you feel you have genuine relationships with your golf clubs? Maybe you do.



Okay, yes, exactly. What BG was trying to point out. What I obviously too subtly pointed out. It's all about you and your girlfriend. No concept here of you and Hypothetical Woman having a wonderful shared experience with the current GF. Or HW and GF having an amazing shared experience. No, it's all about you and GF--need I stress that again, you and GF--having experiences together. As I read your posts, this HW is just a nameless, faceless body who exists to give you and your GF this amazing experience.
Which I notice his empire of websites is often cited here as good goto place for poly info. The problem is that while there may be some good points gleaned from others who practice polyamory, where he gets his logic from I can't say, but it would be wise to at least read from the places he gets his material from because they might have better reasoning and explanations taking the points and blending creative writing practices to give the backstory , especially if you are trying to get people to adopt a certain style of non-monogamy as poly-policy.

I fully understand how hot bi-babes get hurt attempting to become poly additions to couples. I just don't agree with attacking those or ridiculing they who go looking for the unicorn, especially if it is only because it didn't work for you.

If you really want to adopt that viewpoint, you would do well to sort out the difference between polyamory and non-monogamy and casual sex acts for sport. Yes, the sport sex is not really anything remotely related to polyamory, and frankly when the unicorn hunters are more along the lines of "fundamentalist" polys, once the NRE wears off many of them still have a framework much closer to a triad than they do a V or any sort of style where the "metamours " of aware of each other but have little to no contact.

I am not trying to say don't use the word poly for non-monogamy, but whatever word you use, you might need different ones to describe what some folks once had an idea of when the term "poly" began being slung around. Now this is just my experience, and not the end all be all and I won't even attempt to subtly have that come about after plausibly denying it by using a gang of internet buddies and anonymous sock puppets accounts to slaughter an authors review.

but.... some poly people are sort of insane Utopian types, and the few unicorns hunters that bagged the horned horse that I've witnessed, when the sexual triad didn't work out, there is still the three of them that by appearance you'd think they were all having sex, except for either two women or two men either aren't bi- or they are but just aren't into sexual relationships with every single bi- or gay member of the same sex.

So it ends up without the devastated unicorn, and instead two guys and a girl doing just about everything together except the two guys do not engage in sex, or threesomes or two women and one guy who are a triad in every way except for threesome sex.

I never associated poly people with the type who didn't genuinely like their partner's partners. Many of them are some seriously fun-loving and peculiar people.

Everything being openly discussed, is a new phenomena, so even the vocab needs to be worked out and you should feel free to label any behavior anything you want, you could even call casual-just-met-one-night-stand-sex polyamory, as I would be lying if I said no poly people that I know ever engage in that. But they sure as hell would likely be latex barriers between every skin to skin contact other than holding hands, (seriously, literally, whatever name you want to call "safe sex" people take being "fluid bonded" extremely serious)

but remember, that is not a bad thing,

many many people have days or nights during their life when they want to be treated like a set of golf clubs, in fact, they want to be treated like the club that all players of a foursome play 18 holes with and they want to be the only club.

And there is nothing wrong with that when it is done responsibly, which means that all parties involved are of legal age and fully knowledgeable , desire for it to occur and explicitly consent to while of sound mind, free from lies or manipulation

I do understand what you are saying, because many people jump into non-monogamy with the frame of mind we had as children day-dreaming about what it is like to be an adult. And many many problems arise when we engage in adults activities with a child's framed mind (or even an adult framed mind that fails to realize the level of responsibility that is mandatory when you are choosing to exercise certain freedoms, because when we are not responsible, those freedoms are far more costly than anyone ever imagined)

It really does take crazy, loopy, almost Utopian beliefs as the associated cost of behaving in ways that are well within Our Rights, some people refer to them as God Given, and such rights and freedoms we have been gifted come with considerable amont of responsibility.

The "Monkeysphere" *(google it, not referenced here in this post, but this is the only other site I have witnessed this type of bashing "unicorn hunters" other than any site associated with Franklin's Veaux's sites) attitude is a perfect example of that flawed logic. The Truth is, you cannot go through life only having genuine concern for another one to two hundred people tops. Exercising freedoms in such a way will lead to an extremely pathetic population of humans.

I get the point, and yes it's funny or cute, but that attitude will lead to mankinds destruction the same as it shatters the outlooks of HBB Unicorns.

You have a chance to make history, no, you are all making history, just like everyone who lives does simply by living, but this whole idea that people have the courage to break pointless traditions because they truly are doing no harm (at least in regards to non-monogamy and poly) truly is a unique opportunity. I can't think of any other topic that is so new that it doesn't even have standardized vocabulary, in any language.

YOU HAVE TOTAL FREE REIGN, TRUE FREEDOM in regards to these new fangled relationships

nearly every other ANYTHING and EVERYTHING already had a taxonomic clade or naming scheme all but set in stone, but this is your opportunity, so please be careful what you push for, because sexuality is or should be a sacred topic. When I say sacred I mean NOBODY should have the right to ridicule or shame another for their sexuality so long as it is between mutauly consenting adults, of sound mind who desire it and explicitly consent to it when it is done in private.

Respect is the only thing that can substitute for Love when there is none between people. It is always good to be able to not take yourself so seriously, but there is a world of difference between not taking YOURSELF seriously and using humor or disrespect towards others in regards to a topic that they take very seriously, or as a matter of being sacred.

Any matter that demands respect will always be ruined by those who engage in pissing contests, or are insulting indirectly or by being subtle.

Calling a someone a slut when they do not appreciate it is along the same lines of saying faggot, nigger, etc...

Never forget that we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for all the sacrifice of every facet of equal rights, whether it be Race, Gender, Religion, or Sexual orientation, or practice of Love,

Please be mindful of the level of respect you show others, and think about how responsible we might not be being, because it will cost US dearly if we do not live up to it

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 05-11-2013 at 10:50 AM.
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  #39  
Old 05-11-2013, 11:06 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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That post Dirtclustit is such a range of jumbled thinking I just can't be bothered to get my mind around it, what on earth are you trying to say? And is it possible for you to perhaps use one sentence instead of 15 to say it? Your overuse of language and extra hyperbole is very tiresome to read and that is why most people don't respond to you.

Please re-think your tactics if you want to engage in meaningful debate or conversation because right now it appears closer to grandstanding than engaging.

Natja
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  #40  
Old 05-11-2013, 01:49 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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I agree. Dirtclustit, your posts are so often very confusing, rambling, and usually seem quite "off" and unrelated to whatever the topic is. Are you on some medication that does that to you? It is quite impossible to follow your train of thought most of the time. I think you've been told that before. Can you focus a little bit more?
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