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  #41  
Old 04-28-2013, 05:44 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
At 19 - newbie adult closer to childhood than adulthood - she is especially vulnerable. She is learning how to be an adult now. It's time for you to step up and continue to show her how to be a healthy adult by leaving the hottie FWB alone.

And by maybe revisiting this later on, I don't mean waiting for their connection to end or wait for your daughter to be older and then leap in. There will still be the same concerns - you could still hurt her as badly at 30 about this as at 19. But as she ages and the relationship fades into time, it is possible that she would be ok with you pursuing the ex. But that is a HUGE maybe. Don't put into your psyche that you will just bide your time and wait. Move on completely instead of holding onto a fantasy 'what if?'.
Yes, I see.

These considerations are compelling, as complications on consent and equality in the relationships involved.

19-year-olds are legally adults, but in cognitive and emotional terms are not really there yet. It takes extra care to protect and foster the autonomy of "newbie adults" - I like the term, and may steal it.

And, yes the dependence and trust involved in parent-child relationships are further complications in this case, even leaving aside the taboo/ick factor.

[Edit: P.S. In fact, the particular nature of the parent-child relationship - an unequal or asymmetrical relationship involving dependence and trust - may be what lies behind the visceral impact of incest taboo in the first place, regardless of the metaphysical hooey has grown up around it in a patriarchal culture (e.g., phantom penises, metaphysical stains), and regardless of the underlying biological advantages of having the taboo (e.g., genetic problems arising from inbreeding). A deep cognitive bias - role exclusion - is the enforcement mechanism that gives rise to the taboo. Role exclusion works like this: when we identify someone as playing one role in our lives (e.g., parent, teacher, boss), we react very badly (e.g., "EW!") if we suddenly find them playing another role (e.g., metamour, lover).]

Last edited by hyperskeptic; 04-28-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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  #42  
Old 04-28-2013, 07:25 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default I have absolutely no clue about Woody's personal life

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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
What? No, I do not dig what you are saying here.

I think it's different when marriage or a long term relationship (such as the Allen/Farrow one) is involved. Woody hooked up with his own step-daughter. He'd known her as his gf's little girl and ended up fucking her.

In this case, the young man in question is a FWB of her daughter. He is not her son-in-law. I guess if I were the mom here, I'd bring up to him, "There seems to be a definite attraction between us here. But you're my daughter's FWB." And ask him about HIS ethics around it. Perhaps he is feeling a certain fetishistic pleasure, to be romantically/sexually involved with a young woman and her mother. But maybe not. If his feelings are stronger for the mom than the daughter, maybe it would be ethical to stop having sex with the daughter altogether. And then, see what happens with the relationship with onewayward.

(BTW, the 21 year old I've been chatting with? I wrote to him saying we could have one romantic date, if that is a fantasy of his. Since he's been talking about art with me, I suggested, how about meeting at this certain museum that also has lovely outdoor sculpture gardens, walk and talk in the May sunshine, and then a drink afterward? He wrote back to say his life is too busy and disorganized to have a full day to go to a museum with me! Then he implied all he wanted to do was talk and have sex... Oy.

I wrote back jut now, telling him I don't fuck on the first date, and what the heck is he doing that he is too busy to spend half a day with me? I know he only works Fri, Sat and Sunday.

I guess maybe he thought he could just come to my place, talk for an hour and then get to the shagging? That's "romantic?" lol)

I was only commenting to Natja using the "short sharp shock" line which is uttered in a Pink Floyd song, as was the phrase I used "Dig it?"

but to comment on the rest of the words I can say that I do believe any romantic relationship with a minor is grounds for abuse at the criminal level which I believe we are good guidelines if laws are necessary to draw out for stupid people, as I certainly believe that being tolerant or accepting in no ways involves being tolerant of criminals or accepting of criminal behavior










I would be extremely upset if I found out my nineteen year-old daughter had consented to violent role play that depicted rape with anyone, let alone with a person significantly more mature by either age or manipulation. However at that age my daughter would be free to make such decisions on her own, and have the right for my interference of such right, to be considered as a criminal act.

I however am not fearful of any legal activity my daughter engages in because I have a close relationship with my daughter and it is built on trust and she trusts me to talk with me and even sometimes trusts my opinion over hers in certain matters which isn't too typical for a child of her age. I have faith in her judgement in regards to even illegal activity because I believe males are responsible for many laws which make criminals out of people who are not.

Because of the values that I raised my daughter with, which were not enforced but guided as much as she wished, and because I never broke her trust, she will become a very powerful and strong female adult, which often can be viewed as a problem by others who encounter my children at any point throughout their life, esp authority figures.

and I can sympathize with problems authority figures have with my children, because I am the one who raised them, and all I can say is it I don't envy authorities who come into contact with them, as they will soon learn what happens to authorities who may not always be in the right, which isn't always a case of being legally right, but also includes being ethically right.

Because any unexamined life, esp an authority's life will have abusive behavior inflcited on the innocent, even an examined life led by an authority figure is bound to have at least some degree of crossing that fine line of right and wrong use of said authority (and there is always a fine line)

and I would be lying if I said that there have not been instances where I wished I had not raised my children as I did, because I sometimes forget who they are, and because for a moment I forget the amount of faith I should have in them, and I mistakenly think if they listened to me and obeyed, they would be better off. But I soon learn that when raised well, that is the way they known when they are ready for not needing my advise, which is good sign I will soon be seeking them for counsel.

little ones that mature into adults often have such better insight and logical points of view that their opinions are nothing short of revelations

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 04-29-2013 at 06:25 AM. Reason: it isn't necessary for to insult people (I shouldn't be a dick to stranger on the net)
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  #43  
Old 04-28-2013, 07:33 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
I was only commenting to Natja using the "short sharp shock" line which is uttered in a Pink Floyd song, as was the phrase I used "Dig it?"
Yeah that went waaaay over my head, I had no idea what you were talking about to be honest.
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  #44  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:10 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default sorry bout that Natja

I was only teasing you and I really like Pink Floyd, I am NOT really into power play at all because I am not at all submissive and my personality is not at all what most people think of as dominant. Although I personally believe what many people label or think of as dominant behavior has a lot more to do with taking advantage or maintaining the dominant advantage by manipulation or other very undominant characteristics
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  #45  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:14 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Yeah you are still talking Greek to me I am afraid, perhaps it is a cultural dissonance issue?
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  #46  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:31 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default Sorry I didn't really say

how I made the connection between Lyrics and BDSM, so I often come off as completely saying random unrelated things sometimes known as stream of consciousness. It's probably not cultural dissonance, but just that we don't know each other.

I was teasing you in a way that related the term "short sharp shock" not only as if it were a Pink Floyd reference, but also an unspoken reference or signal to reference BDSM, as my original mention of possible abuse was also related to BDSM. Many of the behaviors that take place would be considered abuse if not desired by fully knowledgeable adults who explicitly communicated they consented to have those desires fulfilled.

My personal view of BDSM is not typical, as I feel many people mistakenly associate dominance with the practice of control using discipline, whereas I associate it more closely with the practice of freedom exercised responsibly.

I am extremely open minded, but am suspicious of men who identify as being dominant as many of the role play scenarios in real life (if not consented to) are in fact forms of abuse, so I have trouble with men who are aroused with behaviors that mimic abusing women.

but mostly my troubles with males who identify as a being dominant stem from behaviors that are not honest, but rather deceptive or manipulative and therefore not actually dominant according to my belief system, which would label such behavior as being that of a criminal.

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 04-28-2013 at 09:34 PM. Reason: asshole editor & dick headed editor
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  #47  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:59 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Hmmm yes the stream of consciousness thing is not easy for me to follow.
I am interested in BDSM but I think that it is getting off topic now.
N
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  #48  
Old 04-29-2013, 12:57 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default Maybe he is a student

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
What? No, I do not dig what you are saying here.

I think it's different when marriage or a long term relationship (such as the Allen/Farrow one) is involved. Woody hooked up with his own step-daughter. He'd known her as his gf's little girl and ended up fucking her.

In this case, the young man in question is a FWB of her daughter. He is not her son-in-law. I guess if I were the mom here, I'd bring up to him, "There seems to be a definite attraction between us here. But you're my daughter's FWB." And ask him about HIS ethics around it. Perhaps he is feeling a certain fetishistic pleasure, to be romantically/sexually involved with a young woman and her mother. But maybe not. If his feelings are stronger for the mom than the daughter, maybe it would be ethical to stop having sex with the daughter altogether. And then, see what happens with the relationship with onewayward.

(BTW, the 21 year old I've been chatting with? I wrote to him saying we could have one romantic date, if that is a fantasy of his. Since he's been talking about art with me, I suggested, how about meeting at this certain museum that also has lovely outdoor sculpture gardens, walk and talk in the May sunshine, and then a drink afterward? He wrote back to say his life is too busy and disorganized to have a full day to go to a museum with me! Then he implied all he wanted to do was talk and have sex... Oy.

I wrote back jut now, telling him I don't fuck on the first date, and what the heck is he doing that he is too busy to spend half a day with me? I know he only works Fri, Sat and Sunday.

I guess maybe he thought he could just come to my place, talk for an hour and then get to the shagging? That's "romantic?" lol)
Sometimes being a student can require a heck of a lot of time, even if he's getting failing grades in his classes.
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  #49  
Old 04-29-2013, 01:04 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
Sometimes being a student can require a heck of a lot of time, even if he's getting failing grades in his classes.

Especially when you're spending all that time on OK Cupid trying to get laid when you could be studying.
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  #50  
Old 04-29-2013, 01:26 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
Sometimes being a student can require a heck of a lot of time, even if he's getting failing grades in his classes.
Nope, not a student. He's done some college but is presently just working 3 days a week. I'll let you know... there's more about it all in my blog! Don't want to hijack.
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