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  #51  
Old 04-28-2013, 04:39 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Here is a fine new example of taking "couple privilege" for granted.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showp...24&postcount=1

Although it may be "not nice" to use this real person as an example, don't all our "examples" come from real people?

Now, I can imagine someone might say, "but this couple has the RIGHT to manage their relationship however they WANT. The "secondary" needs to be sensitive to that just as the couple should be sensitive to her! No one person's needs are more important than the others."

But really, there ARE now three people involved, and no one person's needs are more important than the others. So how is it that it's ok for a couple (married in this case, but not always) to say, "ok we're opening our marriage. Let's see other people." Then when it happens for one of them, the other is all "OMG I'm jealous! You have FEELINGS for the other person! FEELINGS, I say! But i guess I can "let" you be "friends" since she's moving away... you'll get over it, she'll meet someone else, life will move on and you'll both forget... wait WHAAAT? You made plans to visit each other? At HER place? FINE. It's her or me, you pick: your wife of 20 years and the mother of your children versus your new girlfriend. Me and the kids and never see her again, or her and leave me and the kids." Etc.

This is bad. This is an example of "couple privilege" being used in conjunction with emotional blackmail. It is from the perspective of the person who is trying to foist responsibility for their own choices onto their partner, using their idea that marriage and children is the "trump card". NEVER SEE HER AGAIN or LEAVE ME AND THE KIDS. This is not even a triad/unicorn situation and it's happening! It's not even about "you make the choice that's right for you and I will choose what's right for me, and if our choices bring us together, then good, if not, so be it." This one is textbook "couple privilige" - "I am the wife. I was here first. I let the genie out of the bottle and can't put it back in, so you do what I say because I'm the one you're married to. Your feelings and your other relationship and the other person's feelings are not as important as ME because... I'm your wife and I was here first."

I realize that the person who posted that is on a "journey" and that everyone needs to make mistakes in order to grow as a human being. But the reality is, this IS where this person is at RIGHT NOW on their "journey", and where they are at has a big sign that reads "Couple Privilege Depot".

It is a little daunting to try to find these examples in retrospect, digging through the archives, tag-searching, and so forth. But while a discussion is current and/or on-going, it is easy for me to recognize these examples when they appear. It isn't about tearing the author of that post a new asshole. It's about pointing out thought processes that form the basis for certain assumptions, and the choices, actions, and consequences that follow, which may and usually do affect other people who had/have/will have very little say in something that does indeed affect their lives. The "couple" may in fact be the top priority in and of itself, but that does not mean the rest of the world outside it ceases to exist or remains in a state of suspended animation while they work out their precious primary priorities.

However, all of those things do not automatically equal "couple privilege". What makes it "couple privilege" in the sense being discussed here (that is, having negative connotations and/or being used as a "pejorative"), is that such couples fail to recognize it for what it is, and act like they can't see beyond the "protecting our marriage" aspect of it. Guess what, the cat is out of the bag, the genie is out of the lamp. You can't un-ring that bell. Yes, we all make mistakes, but some people are willing to OWN that, and others prefer to let other people suffer for their own poor choices.

Quote:
Me and the kids and never see her again, or her and leave me and the kids.
^^ I could not do this to my partner. We don't have kids, but we live together and share certain things that are important to both of us. If I'd decided that I didn't like the OSO, and I gave an ultimatum like this, I'd have to be prepared for them to choose the other person, and I'd have no excuse to be whining about it. <--this is the opposite of "couple privilege".

"Couple privilege" in this context is simply another way of not taking responsibility for one's own choices, and hiding behind the benefits of a sanctioned societal institution. Usually, this is taken for granted in mainstream culture because it's the default - monogamous marriage/preserve status quo. But nonmonongamy falls outside of the status quo. You can't have it both ways. You can't say out of one side of your mouth that you're "opening" your marriage, then invoke the original terms of the marriage just because your partner found someone to date and you didn't, and now you wish you'd never opened that can of worms.

OK, this is a good place to pause and wait for other people to respond. I have to go pick up some new rescue-cats anyway.

Last edited by BoringGuy; 04-28-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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  #52  
Old 04-28-2013, 05:39 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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Default Eradication? Say huh?

It's as hard to eradicate the privilege of being in a couple as it is to... say... eradicate the privileges of being caucasian. Impossible, actually. So the concept of, and the realities of 'couple privilege' exist, and I'm white... and I don't intend to use either as justification for behaving like a jerk. More questions?
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  #53  
Old 04-28-2013, 05:54 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by BaggagePatrol View Post
It's as hard to eradicate the privilege of being in a couple as it is to... say... eradicate the privileges of being caucasian. Impossible, actually. So the concept of, and the realities of 'couple privilege' exist, and I'm white... and I don't intend to use either as justification for behaving like a jerk. More questions?
Actually, I'd say that we CAN all work towards a world where 1) we're all aware of our privileges, which feeds into 2) we're mindful of helping to create a more even playing field, which leads into 3) building communities around us that don't privilege certain people over others in the way the greater culture as a whole does, which, if we're REALLY lucky and persistent and brave, MIGHT some day lead into 4) eradicating many of the more problematic and unfair manifestations of privilege in our society overall.

So, for instance, I can never stop being caucasian. But if I ally myself with anti-racist causes, speak up about inclusion, etcetcetc, maybe, just maybe, I can help in some small way to eradicate the privilege that comes with being caucasian in America.

Quixotic, yeah, but important, I think.
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  #54  
Old 04-28-2013, 07:32 PM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
Is "couple privilege" a thing, or not? Are you taking the stance that it does exist and we must work to eradicate it, or that it does not exist and we must work to eradicate the perception of it?
To the first question I'd say we've established that yes, it's a thing, but I'm confused about the second question. Why are those the only two options? Why can't "It exists, we should recognize it so we don't abuse it, and work on not using it as a pejorative" be an option?
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  #55  
Old 04-29-2013, 12:01 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaggagePatrol View Post
It's as hard to eradicate the privilege of being in a couple as it is to... say... eradicate the privileges of being caucasian. Impossible, actually. So the concept of, and the realities of 'couple privilege' exist, and I'm white... and I don't intend to use either as justification for behaving like a jerk. More questions?


No more questions. That was one of the biggest, lamest (or crippledest if you prefer) cop-out i ever heard and i can't think of a good response without sounding equally lame. (besides annabel already did a good job better than i could have)

I hope i'm not in deep trouble because of my use of the "l" word. It seemed to describe what i think most accurately.

Last edited by BoringGuy; 04-29-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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  #56  
Old 04-29-2013, 12:07 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
To the first question I'd say we've established that yes, it's a thing, but I'm confused about the second question. Why are those the only two options? Why can't "It exists, we should recognize it so we don't abuse it, and work on not using it as a pejorative" be an option?


That is certainly an option. I guess the reason i only mentioned two things was because it seemed like that was the focus at the time. "something" versus the perception of "something".

You ask me "why can't" as if it's up to me and my permission is required. Of course it "can".

Although, if you want to nominate me for President of the Universe, i'll seriously consider accepting if someone will second the nomination. Nutbuster might.
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  #57  
Old 04-29-2013, 12:58 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
Here is a fine new example of taking "couple privilege" for granted.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showp...24&postcount=1.
Alrighty. It seems I was wrong about this being an example of "couple privilege" because I misunderstood where it said the girlfriend wants the husband to choose. I thought where it said that, it meant that the girlfriend doesn't want to be "just friends", that "having" him meant being in a boyfriend-girlfriend type of relationship, with him still married, etc.

That said, I will leave my post up because we can treat this "as if" it's a textbook case. I think it's safe to say that there ARE plenty of cases like this where one member of the original couple IS the one making the other choose. If that be the case, the basic items I outlined still apply.

I apologize for my mistakes. It's a good thing I didn't write all that in the OP's thread.
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  #58  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:36 AM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
You ask me "why can't" as if it's up to me and my permission is required. Of course it "can".
True. Better wording on my part would have been "Do you recognize this as also an option, and if not what is your reasoning?"
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  #59  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:39 AM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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Default Making a better world.

BG: Feel free to use the vocab that appeals most to you. Truth is, I was working on a better response but my girlfriend came in to kiss and snuggle me and I said to myself, "Yeah, that'll do," and proceeded to kiss and snuggle her, while my husband walked the dogs, LOL. Say what you feel; live your life bro, it's all good.

Annabel: I fully agree that all of us have the responsibility to co-create a better world, especially within our personal and community wide sphere. Giving of my time is something that I do every week, month after month on a community wide level; I am committed to, and feel like I make a difference in the world around me. Even just being on this site and speaking up when I feel that someone is being bullied is dang important to me; I have a voice, and I am not afraid to use it.

And so I'm left with some nearly conclusive thoughts, and more questions...

Conclusions: Couple privilege.... Is recognition necessary? Yes. Should people be pre-judged for having it? No.

Now we have the question... Should it be eradicated? What does that look like in your mind? I've been thrilled to see my gay friends marrying their partners and claiming those 'privileges' for themselves as well - medical benefits, tax breaks and all of those goodies. Levelling the playing field as it were. So what would the goal be around changing couple privilege?

Seeds grow in fertile soil with sunshine and nourishment, and I feel like the same is true about positive growth in human beings and the world at large. Prejudging someone seems to thwart growth, rather than encourage it.

Last edited by CherryBlossomGirl; 04-29-2013 at 03:41 AM.
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  #60  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:46 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default that's some pecular source code in the link

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
Alrighty. It seems I was wrong about this being an example of "couple privilege" because I misunderstood where it said the girlfriend wants the husband to choose. I thought where it said that, it meant that the girlfriend doesn't want to be "just friends", that "having" him meant being in a boyfriend-girlfriend type of relationship, with him still married, etc.

That said, I will leave my post up because we can treat this "as if" it's a textbook case. I think it's safe to say that there ARE plenty of cases like this where one member of the original couple IS the one making the other choose. If that be the case, the basic items I outlined still apply.

I apologize for my mistakes. It's a good thing I didn't write all that in the OP's thread.
what do mean "textbook case" is the post written by a creative writer and a hypothetical, or made up scenario in order to fit a custom scenario?

why is it a good thing you didn't write in the OP's thread?
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