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  #71  
Old 05-14-2011, 01:51 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
[Davis is] a true mono. [...] At my birthday party last month I had all of my lovers there. Davis was taciturn, but he managed.

Since then, he's said to me "I don't want to change you, I know there's no point in that... but I feel like part of a smorgasbord when I want to be the main course." In other words, without having the vocabulary for it, he's asking to be my primary.

I told him that I was willing to think about it.
Personally, I don't like these primary/secondary distinctions. But my impression from following this thread is that - as far as you are concerned - Gia is your primary, and that you're considering this "primary" classification with Davis because of his wish to consider himself "the main course". As you write now,
Quote:
One person I haven't touched on is that "strong secondary partner" I mentioned in my first post. That would be Davis.
It may be that the situation with Gia/Eric/baby is presenting you with more to share with us than a relatively smooth sailing with Davis. But - in case my first impression is correct [that your feelings for Gia are actually stronger that those for Davis] - I would most strongly advise you not to tell Davis that he is #1. [In that case] that would be deceit, and would probably lead to later bitterness.

And don't call Davis #1 because that'll be some kind of protection against future pain if the thing with the others goes bad...

Make your own decisions... but make sure that they're honest ones.
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
He also said that he wouldn't be ok with it if I got a tattoo to commemorate the baby's birth... yesssss, I know it sounds a little weird and crazy and maybe even creepy but it WAS something I'd been thinking about [...] BUT it would also almost certainly have been a dumb idea, since I don't even know if I'll be in these guy's lives in another year.
No, not weird, crazy, creepy, OR dumb... but not necessary. You are already emotionally asking this baby to "sign your name / across my heart" [thank you, Terence Trent D'Arby]. If you think that a name signed on your heart is going to be any easier - or less painful - to erase than a tattoo, let me tell you that it ain't so. Here's another song lyric: "When I fall in love, / it will be forever. / Or I'll never fall in love..."

I call your attention - once again - to the 4th quote in my signature.

And I hope that Eric and Gia are reading this thread!!!
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If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #72  
Old 05-15-2011, 04:53 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
But my impression from following this thread is that - as far as you are concerned - Gia is your primary, and that you're considering this "primary" classification with Davis because of his wish to consider himself "the main course".
I don't think I could call either of them primary... my understanding of that word is someone with whom you intertwine your life. You make future plans with that person, share things like living situations or finances. At present, I'm involved in the lives of my partners but I'm following my own course.

I think you make a good point, that I'm considering rearranging my relation to Davis because of his wishes, not necessarily because of an impulse that springs directly from my own heart. I need to be careful to make sure that I'm doing what's right for me and not just going along with him because I care for him and it's easy.

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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
It may be that the situation with Gia/Eric/baby is presenting you with more to share with us than a relatively smooth sailing with Davis. But - in case my first impression is correct [that your feelings for Gia are actually stronger that those for Davis] - I would most strongly advise you not to tell Davis that he is #1. [In that case] that would be deceit, and would probably lead to later bitterness.

And don't call Davis #1 because that'll be some kind of protection against future pain if the thing with the others goes bad...

Make your own decisions... but make sure that they're honest ones.
I appreciate all of the advice, truly. I am trying to be honest... it's one of the virtues that I hold in highest regard. Honesty with the self comes first, and if you're strong enough to do that then you can be honest with others as well. Once Davis has read those mono/poly articles I sent him, I think we'll have a real conversation about how things could look between us.

For whom do I feel more strongly? Impossible to say. If a villain had suspended them both over a lava pit and I could only save one, I'd save Gia, for the sake of Eric and the baby. But if I was told, instead, that I could only ever see one of them again and had to choose which it would be? I don't know how I'd begin to make such an agonizing choice.

I'm keenly aware of the possibility that I might cling to Davis simply because I know that he won't reject me like Gia and/or Eric might, and I am going to do my best to make sure I'm not acting from that motive... it would be very unfair to everyone involved.

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And I hope that Eric and Gia are reading this thread!!!
Oh helllllll no. I need a safe space where I can talk about things like trying to tell Eric how I feel about him (still haven't done that, embarrassingly enough), or how I want to be strong enough not to let Gia know how much it hurts that I won't be there for the birth of her child. Most of the things here, maybe all the things here, wouldn't be a surprise to the people involved. Sometimes I talk with them and then write about it here afterwards. Sometimes I write about an issue here first, and it helps me figure out how I want to talk about it with the person involved. But either way, I need this to be a place where I can be completely uncensored.

Names have been changed to protect the innocent and all that. Of course, if any of them were to find this and read a page or two in, it would be clear beyond a doubt that this was me. But I feel faaaaairly certain that won't happen any time soon. I know the blogs and boards they read, and this isn't currently one of them.
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  #73  
Old 05-15-2011, 05:04 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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The baby shower went GREAT, btw. I met many of the female members of both Gia and Eric's families, the food was amazing, and we had a bunch of fun activities going on, like decorating onesies and painting Gia's belly with henna, as opposed to the usual cheesy shower games. I did a lot of the planning and I was very proud of how it went down. I could tell that Gia's mom (who is one of two of her family members -- her sister is the other one -- who knows about our relationship) admired the job I did in pulling things together. And Gia herself had a great time, which is of course the most important thing.

After all the other guests had left, Gia and I stayed late and chatted with the hostess, her Aunt, about religion. I drove Gia home, then hung out while Eric exclaimed over all of the presents. He was so pleased with everything that their friends and family had gifted to them, it was wonderful to see. He's a pretty reserved guy, it's not too often that I get to see him smile so much. When he'd finished looking at the last gift I kissed Gia one more time, then walked up behind him and wrapped my arms around him, gave him a tight hug and left. I felt free, unconcerned, and purely happy on the ride home.
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  #74  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:48 AM
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That sounds great - the baby shower - and also how you went up to Eric and hugged him. It occurred to me as I read that last bit that, you know, it isn't always necessary to speak about feelings. There's so much focus on communicating in poly circles, but love can be expressed by action and just being yourself around the people you love. So, I wouldn't worry too much about some big moment where you have to tell him your feelings. How wonderful that he just gets to experience you and all your lovingness!

As for Davis, and his smorgasbord comment... what if a smorgasbord consisted of all main courses? heh-heh.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 05-15-2011 at 08:50 AM.
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  #75  
Old 05-20-2011, 03:22 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Midday yesterday, I got an email from Eric. He said "Gia mentioned that you're coming over tonight. She's been feeling down for the past couple of days, so I thought we should work together to make sure she has as nice a night as possible," and then he went on to talk about movies she'd like. It immediately made me think of that post I put up here a while back in which I said "Even though we rarely active collaborate on it, Eric and I are partners in crime."

Yay for active collaboration!! We didn't come up with an elaborate scheme or anything but he did get a movie and I picked up some ice cream.

When I got there, the two of them were lounging in bed, reading over material from their birthing class. I snuggled up with Gia and listened. She reached over at one point and put my hand on her belly. The baby was moving like crazy. She's so, so big now, it's almost unreal.

Gia was still feeling down, but there was nothing much to be down about that and considering the circumstances we had a pleasant evening.

A little vignette:
At the end of the night, in the living room, I kissed Gia goodbye. Then I stopped into their bedroom to say goodbye to Eric. He was watching a video online and I hopped onto the bed beside him to watch too. I snuggled into the crook of his arm and he wrapped his arm around me. After the video finished (it was short), he put on another one. After a minute, Gia came in and gave me a look with which I've become familiar -- it's all in the eyes and it says "You know I care about you sweetie but you also know that I have a limited tolerance for social interaction and right now I could use a liiiittle more space than you're giving me." It occurred to me that she was probably exhausted (it was late and she's been getting tired very early these days) and there I was lying on her side of the bed as if I intended to stay, when she thought I'd been about to leave. I hopped up feeling vaguely guilty and left quickly.

On the ride home, I felt weird about how weird I had felt in that moment. Sometimes I really feel like a part of their lives and sometimes I feel so out of place. When I'm with Gia and she's walking me around her garden and pouting about all the weeds I want to tell her "I'll move in and pull all the weeds and watch your baby and rub your feet and take care of things" except that oh riiiight I kind of have my own life that I don't want to abandon (I live in the city, which I love, whereas they live outside of it).

Today Gia's been reaching out to me in little ways and it's been nice. She emailed me something that she thought I'd like, then actually called me on the phone just to tell me about something funny. She generally hates talking on the phone so we almost never communicate that way... we email, or chat, or talk in person. It's really nice, with both of them, to know that they're thinking about me when I'm not there.

Sometimes I worry that I place far more emphasis in my life on them than they do on me. There are plenty of days when they're the first thing I'm thinking about in the morning and the last thing I think about before I fall asleep. When I notice that I'm doing that a lot, I consciously try to break the pattern and think about other things instead. I love them, but I don't want to obsess.
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  #76  
Old 05-20-2011, 12:43 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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This continues to be my favourite thread on here. So much is going right for you, so that you shouldn't worry when it's not absolutely perfect. Nothing's perfect. As you point out yourself, if you moved in with them, that would mean giving up the living in the city that you love.
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
After a minute, Gia came in and gave me a look with which I've become familiar -- it's all in the eyes and it says "You know I care about you sweetie but you also know that I have a limited tolerance for social interaction and right now I could use a liiiittle more space than you're giving me." It occurred to me that she was probably exhausted (it was late and she's been getting tired very early these days) and there I was lying on her side of the bed as if I intended to stay, when she thought I'd been about to leave. I hopped up feeling vaguely guilty and left quickly.

On the ride home, I felt weird about how weird I had felt in that moment. Sometimes I really feel like a part of their lives and sometimes I feel so out of place. [...] Today Gia's been reaching out to me in little ways and it's been nice. She emailed me something that she thought I'd like, then actually called me on the phone just to tell me about something funny. She generally hates talking on the phone so we almost never communicate that way... we email, or chat, or talk in person.
It seems pretty obvious to me that that look was due to tiredness, not to undervaluing you. Gia made sure the next day to reassure you - without saying that that was what she was doing - that you ARE important... and that she loves you.

Stop worrying about them dropping you some day! It looks to me as if you're in for the long haul...
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #77  
Old 05-21-2011, 04:11 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
Stop worrying about them dropping you some day! It looks to me as if you're in for the long haul...
You're right, a lot *is* going quite well. I can't really say that I worry that they're going to drop me.

I spent a few minutes just now trying to sum up what I *am* worried about and I couldn't come up with anything that a) made sense, and b) didn't sound terrifically whiny. So I'm going to stop and just go take a shower and forget that I even have worries for now.
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  #78  
Old 05-21-2011, 04:33 AM
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Annabel, I think you are a lot like me in the sense that you are always second-guessing yourself, thinking you didn't do things "right," made a fool of yourself, or said the wrong thing. When you do that, it's easy to imagine something to worry about. So, as a friend of mine will often tell me, "Put the bat down," meaning that it's time to stop beating yourself up so hard. Take a deep breath, think of the good things you've got, and go out and play!
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #79  
Old 05-28-2011, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
Sometimes I worry that I place far more emphasis in my life on them than they do on me. There are plenty of days when they're the first thing I'm thinking about in the morning and the last thing I think about before I fall asleep. When I notice that I'm doing that a lot, I consciously try to break the pattern and think about other things instead. I love them, but I don't want to obsess.
Loving somebody sort of makes you obsessive, if you take it to mean that somebody is in your thoughts constantly. I frequently worry about how my feelings might or might not be requited, but I try to think that loving more is nothing to be ashamed of or to hide, but just a sign that you are a loving, open-hearted person. Love is a gift, and like all gifts, requires a gift in return or awkwardness ensues. So intellectually, I understand where my worry comes from, but whether I only want to love in order to be loved in return? Maybe not.
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  #80  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:16 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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I wrote in an earlier comment (wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy back now):
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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
Thought 6: [If you want, you can] tell Eric and Gia from me that if they deserve somebody like you... they must be pretty wonderful!
It seems to me that - deep down - you doubt that you really deserve them. At least - from all you've written - I see no evidence that Gia and Eric are in any doubt about that. That doubt makes you worry that someday they're going to "find you out", realise that you're really not that great... and drop you.

Annabel!!! You're fantastic!!! I wish you would get that into your head (and then - even more important - into your heart)!!!

If you're not careful, I'm going to slap my "Grannie J's Patented Mirror Cure Against Inferiority-Complexes And Self-Doubt" on you...
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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