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  #241  
Old 10-16-2011, 07:09 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Location: Smack in the middle of The Spanish Revolution!
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(More hugs coming at you from Spain. I'm one of the "marshalls" in our city's contribution to today's World-wide demonstration for true democracy.)
During the demo, I asked for, and got, over a hundred hugs, most of them from strangers. Not one person turned me down, and most were positively delighted with the request.
I LIKE this Revolution!!!
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And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
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I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
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  #242  
Old 10-18-2011, 03:09 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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It's not just a question of what he (and you) can live with, but also what both of you want from life.
At Mr. FFR's suggestion, I'm revisiting this line. At 27 I should know what I want from life, yeah? I really don't, though. I want... love, connection, excitement, fulfillment. Ha, very specific, yes. I want to explore myself and the world, I want to do things I enjoy every day, I want to grow, I want to help people. I want to stay open to life. I like where I live now, but I've often thought it would be good for me to try living other places. I want to keep my loved ones in my life. Those last couple of wants may not be strictly compatible?

Would it be better to have more of a plan at this point? I've always felt a little aimless, happy to act on luck and whim and to follow if the right leader comes along. But it works for me and, ironically, my life has been very stable but also growth-oriented these last few years.

So, no big plans, no end goals. Davis is in much the same boat except that he really *could* use more of a sense of direction, his life as is doesn't particularly satisfy him at present. But neither of us is big on destinations right now. I know I want much more in the way of outside contact than he does... his friends are important to him, but he's pretty anti-social overall whereas I am a much more gregarious breed of misanthrope.

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I think we often cause ourselves unnecessary problems when we worry that we don't match our special ones' feelings for us.
Definitely. Things are never gonna to be perfectly equal... the question should be, do they work?

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Don't aim for "minimising the negative" as much as "maximising the positive".
I like this a lot! I'm going to remember it.

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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
I LIKE this Revolution!!!
Aww, I'm happy for you!
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Me, 30ish bi female, been doing solo poly for roughly 5 years. Gia, Clay, and Pike, my partners. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler.

Last edited by AnnabelMore; 10-18-2011 at 03:12 AM.
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  #243  
Old 10-18-2011, 08:08 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Below is an excerpt from BU's recent post on her blog of reflections on Pekka Hämäläinen's book "A Good Relationship".

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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
In the normal course of every relationship, there's a phase of individualization and independence, and a person going through that phase may experience strong feelings of hatred and bitterness towards their partner, whom they perceive as dull, clingy and needy, a hamper to their personal happiness and growth.

In the first phase of the relationship, the symbiosis phase, people find their partners fascinating beyond measure. Compared to the all-night-long philosophical discussions of the first year together, many people are sorely disappointed when their time together with their partners starts resembling two strangers hanging out in the same space at the same time, both safe from eye-contact behind their laptops. While going through the individualization phase, it can seem that you are sharing your life and bed with a complete stranger. Many at this point connect the dots and realize that in the initial NRE phase, they have chosen a partner who's incompatible. It's easy to forget that the getting-to-know-you -phase doesn't end with "I do" or moving in together; it continues throughout the relationship, and requires even more time and energy when the love hormones have evened out.

During the symbiosis stage, partners know the limits of their relationship - what it can take and what is a deal-breaker. When one partner then hits the individualization stage, it might seem to the partner left to observe from the sidewalk that they can count on absolutely nothing anymore. The understanding that was created in the beginning of the relationship is starting to show cracks, the cards have gone up in the air and there's no saying if the relationship will continue or not. Typical of this phase are infidelity crises, trial separations and counseling together and separately. The limits of the relationship are under intense re-evaluation and people start asking themselves; Can we make it through this? Even now? Wouldn't it be easier at this point just to break up already? Can our love ever be the same it was?

The partners may feel cheated. Their images of their partner do not correspond with reality. I have been deceived. I can no longer trust anything they say. Change is, however, an inbuilt feature of all people and relationships. Instead of running into rash conclusions about the future sustainability of the relationship, it might pay out to take a step back and wait what emerges after the dust has settled. If one chickens out of the hard getting-to-know-the-new-you -work at this point, they may never get to enjoy the perks of a relationship that has weathered the individualization crisis - stronger partnership and often even a new honeymoon phase.
This reminded me so very much of where Davis and I are in our relationship. The first time we dated, over the course of three years we passed through the symbiosis stage and into the individualization stage, complete with crisis and eventual breakup. Then, over the next four years while we were FWB's, we grew as people and deepened our friendship but didn't engage in the process of building our relationship together in the same way.

When we got back together, we dropped right back into the individualization stage! What a surprise that was to me, after such a long period of even-keeled friendship. All of a sudden we're fighting and I'm filled with uncertainty. This in particular --

"strong feelings of hatred and bitterness towards their partner, whom they perceive as dull, clingy and needy, a hamper to their personal happiness and growth"

-- struck a chord. I've had these feelings about Davis in the last four months since we started dating again and it's left me with a lot of cognitive dissonance because I didn't feel these things before we made our relationship official and, at the same time, I love him and can envision a life partnership with him.

The question now is, can we get through this and "enjoy the perks of a relationship that has weathered the individualization crisis - stronger partnership and often even a new honeymoon phase."

Time will tell!
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Me, 30ish bi female, been doing solo poly for roughly 5 years. Gia, Clay, and Pike, my partners. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler.
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  #244  
Old 10-18-2011, 08:25 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
The question now is, can we get through this and "enjoy the perks of a relationship that has weathered the individualization crisis - stronger partnership and often even a new honeymoon phase."

Time will tell!
Maybe knowing that this is a normal part of relationship growth helps? I know for me knowing that these are stages that happen in most relationships and having some ideas on how to work through them, handle them, or figure out what's up is super helpful. So that instead of feeling those feelings and reacting with "something must be wrong with us or I wouldn't feel this way", I can say "Hey, this is normal. Sucky, but normal and we will work through it and come out stronger."



I seriously need to get that book!
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  #245  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:27 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by Minxxa View Post
Maybe knowing that this is a normal part of relationship growth helps? I know for me knowing that these are stages that happen in most relationships and having some ideas on how to work through them, handle them, or figure out what's up is super helpful. So that instead of feeling those feelings and reacting with "something must be wrong with us or I wouldn't feel this way", I can say "Hey, this is normal. Sucky, but normal and we will work through it and come out
Oh definitely, *definitely*. When I first started feeling this way, I found myself thinking all kinds of crazy things like "Is my inner being trying to tell me that there's someone else out there that I'm meant to be with instead of Davis?" And I'm not even a spiritual person, I don't even believe that there's a person you're "meant" to be with our anything like that!

I had already started to feel much calmer about things, but reading this has helped nudge me even further into okayness.
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Me, 30ish bi female, been doing solo poly for roughly 5 years. Gia, Clay, and Pike, my partners. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler.
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  #246  
Old 10-21-2011, 07:10 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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I seriously need to get that book!
Sadly, I think it's only available in Finnish. I'll try to recap, though .
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  #247  
Old 10-21-2011, 07:15 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Sadly, I think it's only available in Finnish. I'll try to recap, though .
What you don't have time to translate, edit and format an entire book and post it on the web? All for free?

Hmmphhff! I think recaps are a minimum!

Kidding! (In case that did not 'translate' well on the intertubes.)

I would love to read the recaps if you have the time.

Maybe on another thread so we can give this one back to AnnabelMore?
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  #248  
Old 10-23-2011, 12:04 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Kidding! (In case that did not 'translate' well on the intertubes.)
Haha, I first read that as "interlubes."
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #249  
Old 10-23-2011, 06:17 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I left work early on Friday and hung out with Gia and Bee. Eric was there too, in a way -- he was at work, but was connected to us via a video chat thing that let him hear us and see the part of the room where Bee was resting.

I imagine it's a really wonderful thing for him, to be able to see his son while finishing up a long work week, but it was a little odd, his disembodied presence... we couldn't see or hear him, he just communicated now and then via text. Weirder than if he'd actually been there, in which case I might have been able to tell when he was listening and when he wasn't. I mainly focused on Bee, while Gia did some scrapbooking. Despite the weirdness, I really appreciated the time together and we did have some good conversations.

Near the end of the visit, I went to the grocery store with Gia and held Bee while she shopped. It meant soooo much to her to be able to focus on that simple chore but also to have her baby with her. Helping like that and hearing from her what a big difference my presence can make makes me really happy. Plus I just can't get enough of having Bee close to me. He babbles now, sometimes it's like he's singing.

I saw G&E again tonight -- they got a sitter for Bee and came out to a club night where some friends of ours were dj'ing. At the end of the evening, Gia and I kissed lingeringly, with tongue (for the longest while our kisses have been mostly close-mouthed). I feel like we're moving incrementally closer together, physically. She mentioned the other day that her period has returned and it's been heavy to the point of frustrating relentlessness. Fun. :/ Hopefully that'll clear up soon...

Anyway, as it happens, G&E&B are coming over tomorrow to play a tabletop roleplaying game with my roommates and me, which my roommate Liam is going to run. That's three days in a row that we get to spend time together! So nice.
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Me, 30ish bi female, been doing solo poly for roughly 5 years. Gia, Clay, and Pike, my partners. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler.

Last edited by AnnabelMore; 10-23-2011 at 06:21 AM.
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  #250  
Old 10-24-2011, 11:17 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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OMG. You HAVE to make a character sheet for Bee! I'm thinking, Stormageddon: Dark Lord of All.

(I hope they're Doctor Who fans! )

Last edited by TruckerPete; 10-24-2011 at 11:44 AM. Reason: typo
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