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  #11  
Old 04-15-2013, 04:11 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
He did not have the affair, his wife did.

^This^
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2013, 06:16 AM
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Because of THIS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by egoscout View Post
I started a relationship with a secondary that was wrong--done in the wrong way, and with the wrong person for us.

Every possible mistake that could have been made I did. I lost track of my wife's feelings, I got drunk on NRE, I kept moving forward thinking that everything would work out, and I kept thinking that all of our problems were just the growing pains of having my first emotional bond with a secondary. It wasn't until my wife threatened divorce that I stopped the relationship with the secondary. I know how wrong my behavior was. I know the stupidity of my mistakes.
THIS is arbitrary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
He did not have the affair, his wife did.
In my book-(everyone has their own definitions) doing it the wrong way equals not meeting boundary agreements which equals cheating.

She may have had an affair (not addressed in the first post) and in that case-maybe she has some tough work to build trust as well.
But-I wasn't addressing HER. I was addressing HIM in acknowledging that HE went about his relationship all wrong.
As someone who also went about my relationship all wrong-I know how hard it is to FIX that.
Shrug.

If the OP wants some suggestions on how I managed it-I'm available by PM. I always answer PM's and I managed to get through the bs to a happy and viable poly dynamic after an affair AND after a "went about it all wrong" bs by my husband after that.
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2013, 07:58 AM
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I was just reporting that you may have missed the affair bit. He says he went about things badly, but she knew all about it, it does not equal affair in my eyes. If you got it wrong and missed it, you got it wrong. Nothing wrong with admitting that but you can't really accuse him of having an affair as it is clear a) that was his wife and b) she knew about his relationship but as he says, he got carried away by NRE. He doesn't go into enough details for anyone to make a specific judgement and accuse him of cheating.

So no, it is not arbitrary. There is a very distinct definition, so you are splitting hairs.
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2013, 04:56 PM
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The 'wrong way' is that wifey wasn't happy. He was honest, and up front, when asked to back off, he did, when things were being discussed and he was told they needed time, he gave it. So while the wifey is trying to make him feel like the bad guy and having done things 'the wrong way' what he did wrong was assume that being up front and honest and poly himself was okay. It wasn't. Poly is only for her and only because she already had an affair and wants to keep the guy in her life. She has mentioned that she agrees that calling it poly was simply "A means to an end" Saying that by doing so then she's not a cheater and they can move on from that.

Just because I've read both their threads and the LAST thing I think hubby needs is reassurances that he was wrong. He did everything right, it was that his gf was new to poly and so it was rough and his wife was new to sharing hubby and so made the gf out to be manipulative whenever she had a hard time with things. Meanwhile wifey was NOT manipulative for the same tears and for pulling the divorce card. Hypocritical when there was no divorce card pulled when she was cheating.

It's more a case of "Poly for me" Wifey wants what she wants and people should fall in line. Anything uncomfortable for her should be vetoed immediately.
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2013, 06:06 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Well, it sounds like despite everything that has transpired you want to be with wife.

Quote:
Here are the problems that prevent us from moving forward:
1. I still have feelings for the secondary and they are not fading fast enough to help my wife and I move forward and rebuild trust;
Could you please clarify? Fading fast enough for whom?

How do your feelings for the secondary and grieving the break up loss of that hold YOU back from building trust with the wife?
How do your feelings for the secondary and your grieving the break up loss hold WIFE back from building trust with you?

Quote:
2. My wife sees that everything the secondary did was manipulative, while I see her actions as those of a mono person (introduced to poly by me) who stumbled her way through our connection and opening up her marriage simultaneously.
You don't have to agree with wife. Secondary is GONE now. But if your goal is to be with wife... could figure out whatever her reasonable need is here and if you could reasonably meet it. Then maybe she can LET THIS GO already? Say you DID agree that the secondary was manipulative for a minute... What NEED would hearing that from you serve in the wife?

She needs empathy from you? Needing reassure? Need for primacy? Something else? Is what she asks of you not realistic or reasonable?

You could say to wife "Yes. I see that everything the secondary did was manipulative for you. Remember, secondary is GONE now. How can I provide you with reassure at this point in time? I am HERE. I am sorry this is hard and crazy. I am here with you through this. What needs can I meet for you?"

What about your needs? Does wife understand what your needs are here -- to be able to let go of the ex in a way you can live with? The need to grieve loss without extra grief piled on top? Maybe you need a counselor or trusted friend to help you with THAT portion of it. Because on that one? Wife is not "the guy" to help you process? It just feeds crazy?

See if sorting out the NEEDS for each of you and "who's the guy" for helping to process it helps move it over the hump. You may not be "the guy" for all her things and she might not be "the guy" to help sort all her things. Too close to the issue to be helpful. YKWIM? Maybe if you can each understand each other's need in this you could get closer to resolution?

It sounds rough over there. I am sorry.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 04-15-2013 at 08:04 PM.
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  #16  
Old 04-15-2013, 06:43 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixtoria View Post
The 'wrong way' is that wifey wasn't happy. He was honest, and up front, when asked to back off, he did, when things were being discussed and he was told they needed time, he gave it. So while the wifey is trying to make him feel like the bad guy and having done things 'the wrong way' what he did wrong was assume that being up front and honest and poly himself was okay. It wasn't. Poly is only for her and only because she already had an affair and wants to keep the guy in her life. She has mentioned that she agrees that calling it poly was simply "A means to an end" Saying that by doing so then she's not a cheater and they can move on from that.

Just because I've read both their threads and the LAST thing I think hubby needs is reassurances that he was wrong. He did everything right, it was that his gf was new to poly and so it was rough and his wife was new to sharing hubby and so made the gf out to be manipulative whenever she had a hard time with things. Meanwhile wifey was NOT manipulative for the same tears and for pulling the divorce card. Hypocritical when there was no divorce card pulled when she was cheating.

It's more a case of "Poly for me" Wifey wants what she wants and people should fall in line. Anything uncomfortable for her should be vetoed immediately.

Thank you Vix and Natja. You have spared me the irksome task of pointing all those things out. Once again, i am dismayed to see that people are adding things to what other people write, instead of reading the words that are written there for all to see. People see ultimatums where there are none, yet refuse to see ultimatums where there clearly are some. Also, doing things "the wrong way" does not equal "cheating" or "affair". Of course cheating and having affairs are "the wrong way" but there are other ways to make mistakes in relationships without labeling them "cheating" and "affair". Just because LR cheated, it doesn't mean everyone else whose spouse is unhappy with the "polyship" has CHEATED. Talk about "assuming" and "labeling". I thought we weren't supposed to DO that?

Here is a case where we do have both sides of the story, the wife admits to cheating/affair, admits to giving divorce ultimatums, etc. and people are STILL scolding and berating the husband because he's all "um, ah, i know i made mistakes too, and i'm trying to see things from my wife's point of view, but... I keep adding the numbers up and the answer is always the same. But my wife says it should be something else. How do i re-invent math so that i get the answer SHE has?"

Seriously? He's the "cheater"?? Ok, it was fun visiting fantasy land, but i'm going back to reality now, where i live.
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  #17  
Old 04-15-2013, 11:54 PM
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nancyfore nancyfore is offline
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I've commented in Pol's thread and I totally know what your going through. Hubby (nutbusterx) and I have just had a break up (two weeks ago) with his co-worker. Your situation mirrors ours so unbelievably its like we wrote both your thread and Pol's.

I will mention to hubby that he comment here after reading your post, he might be very helpful. He just commented to me on Friday that he is having trouble getting "stretch" (ex-gf) out of his mind and out of his thoughts...

Stretch was also mono before she met hubby and he introduced her to poly also.. But she was still manipulative.. She actually told him that it was him that introduced her to being poly and he corrected her and told her that cheating wasn't poly.. She was very manipulative and he might be able to help with this too.

That other post was my response to our situation.. It was neither clean or unemotional.. It was hard, and it still is hard..

I will have hubby respond when he can...
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  #18  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:45 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I feel silly contributing to an argument about what exactly went down, when ostensibly the point of this thread is to help Egoscout, who was there, and who knows what went down, but........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pol View Post
I developed feelings for someone much younger than me. They developed over a 3-year period. During that period he nearly died, and that was when I realized I loved him. I waited about 6 months (due to distance) to tell him how I felt with no intention of it turning into an affair. I know that is hard to believe, and Iím sure there will be plenty of doubters out there, but my intention was just to tell him because I couldnít stand the thought of something happening to him (such as death) without him knowing. I told him it was just a tragic love story: two people meeting at the wrong time or in the wrong lifetime. He agreed. And thenÖ

My husband learned of it very shortly after it happened.

...

Then he met someone at work. A younger, beautiful, married, former stripper. The problem is that he had fallen for her without communicating it with me. He says itís because he couldnít believe someone like that would be attracted to him, so he didnít believe it himself. So, he concealed all the flirting, gift giving, etc. When I learned of it, it was when she started to pursue an affair with him (by revealing that she used to be a stripper, and he is the only other person she ever told, besides her husband). So, he said his marriage was open, she got excited, and they started to make plans. Well, our agreement is no affairs and no married women (unless open marriage). He was willing to have an affair.
What she did. A long-distance friendship-turned-love that only became verbalized because of fear that someone might die, with no understanding that poly might be possible.

What he did. Conscious, deliberate courting of a co-worker to the point of deciding, mutually, that an affair was on the table, all of which was in clear violation of agreements made within a new poly framework.

Is one worse than the other. I wouldn't hazard to judge. But Pol is not a demon and Egoscout is not a saint.
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  #19  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:48 AM
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My last post was from the wife's thread, in case that wasn't obvious.
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2013, 05:49 AM
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Hi Egoscout. I'm Jim.

I just did this scenario. My gf at work, (Stretch) entered into a relationship with me under the guise of a breakup. She failed to mention when said breakup was over. Then she claimed she wanted to continue with me. I said I wouldn't continue unless her bf was informed of our relationship. She agreed. She delayed. She claimed they talked. Then she'd claim there was a miscommunication and she hadn't actually talked to him. Then things were too heavy to talk about. Then she said they had talked. Then they hadn't talked. Then they were on a break. Then we slept together. Then their break was over. Then they didnt talk...again....

I wanted to believe she needed time to adjust and get her head around things. Poly is a big step. I had to be patient. I loved her. I was patient. She continued to mislead me. I made excuses for her.

I have the kind of wife who lives compersion. My wife brought lunch for the three of us to work. My wife tried to befriend my gf. It was wonderful and i wanted to believe.

It took a long time for me to get my head to a place where i could see that the lies my gf told were lies. She lied to me. She lied to her bf. She lied to my wife. She very much loved the attention i gave her. She thanked me for introducing her to poly. She forgot the part of poly that includes honesty having a huge role in each relationship as a fundamental unshakable constant, despite having had that explained ad nauseum. Stretch claimed to love me and to love her 7 year bf. She said things were different with me because i could accept her honesty and he couldn't. If this sounds remotely familiar, you were being manipulated and used.

We've broken up now. Every day when i see her, it hurts a little. I miss her. I wish she had been able to be honest. I would have given her the moon, and my wife would have helped me, happily.

My wife had called the situation way sooner than i had. Stretch loved me, but her brand of love includes situational and selective honesty. It was unreliable and inconsistent. I chose to overlook it in hopes she'd be able to achieve it. She never quite got there. All the while my feelings deepened and my wife cried and struggled. We discussed. We got frustrated. We agreed to give it just one more shot. A bunch of times. A few more talks.

There's no point to this rambling except to say, I know what you're feeling and it sucks. When i ended my relationship with the gf, she was ok. I hurt. My wife hurt.

Lots of lessons learned, and Nancy and I have come out stronger and wiser than we started. Tons of honesty is in order. Your honesty won't always be pleasant for Pol. Her honesty wont always be pleasant for you. I don't believe pleasant is necessary. I also don't believe you both have to heal or understand at the same rate. Your wife got uncomfortable. You were in deep and developed some real and deep feelings. Supporting each other does not require being identical. Follow the truth. Do it better next time.

There is a japanese proverb that i love... "Fall down seven times, Get up eight" maybe it'll help, idk

I wish you both the very best.

Jim

Last edited by NutBusterX; 04-16-2013 at 05:51 AM. Reason: typo
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