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  #11  
Old 12-06-2010, 06:56 PM
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The only thing I have to add to the cowgirl comments is that your husband and his SO have had 9 months to plan and dream. You've only been involved in the planning for the last 5 weeks. Of course you want things to slow down! I'm betting they didn't get to plans of babies and moving in together overnight, if they didn't why should you?

Changes to living situations isn't something to enter into lightly ever. Everyone has to be on board 100% and truly want to make it work for everyone involved. If your husband really wants to make this woman a part of his life permanently then the integration changes have to go slowly. Rather than trying to separate your husband from you and your kids a better approach might be to come over for a family dinner and to get to know the family as a whole a little better. Is there any reason why she can't be a part of family time, at least for a couple of hours on the weekend?
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2010, 08:32 AM
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So what do we do? If she's a cowgirl, do we end this now before things get complicated? My husband(S) loves her and would like her to be part of our lives for 'as long as it lasts'. Perhaps S hopes that with time, we'll all be happy and I'll embrace the baby plan or in fact insist on it myself) He didnt understand my reservation on this until I told him to imagine me rosy and swollen with someone else's child. He frowned, wrinkled his nose and quickly pronounced that, that was not the same thing... !! He could not imagine it either. So there....

Also, deciding to live together and have kids is abit more complicated in our culture (D and I are Ugandan). S would have to formally declare his intentions to the family ( in a traditional ceremony with dowry) which is actually a marriage. I know.. all sounds over the top but thats how it is here. Any other way is considered disrespect to the woman concerned and to the family as well. So its not just packing up and moving in and all that is abit too much for me to consider. This is why I am more comfortable with the uncomplicated version.

@ Derbylicious: We've been out a couple of times with SO (D) and the kids get along with her pretty well. Without the 'noose' of the future baby plans, she really is a fun person to be around. I've been out with her at pick time from school so integrating her into our family is the least of the problems. I just feel that when we start involving the kids, we the adults should have sorted ourselves out (which we are not).

On further discussion, S admitted to having persuaded D to meet on sunday so the pressure this time came from him. I made it clear that impromptu meetings between them are just not acceptable given that there are others myself and the kids have to be considered.

@ Fidelia: good idea about the joint testing. That should keep everything clean and transparent
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2010, 06:50 PM
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What to do now... ? hmmmm, good question.

Really I think it's up to her. There will be no babies with your shared partner it sounds like. So you can both let her know that, there will be no living together it sounds like, so you can let her know that too. It sounds like it's not okay for him to just drop everything and go to her, so she shouldn't expect that either.

So where does that leave things...? well, you are willing to share your time with her to a point. What is that point? how much time? when?

You are willing that she be in his life at all... that is big!

You accept he loves her. that is big! and a lot!

You seem to have some very clear boundaries and so does he... she now has to figure out if it is worth it to stay with him knowing those boundaries. She can negotiate those and it will be up to the two of you if you are willing to budge on any or all of them. If you aren't then again she will have to decide if it is worth it to stay or go and find a man who is able and willing to join her on a journey into parenthood and cohabitation... possibly with your partner on the side.

This is how boundary setting works... making compromises until everyone feels comfortable or everything ends because it just isn't going to work.

You are on the right path I think, you just seem to need some confidence in that... just because she is nice and you enjoy hanging out with her doesn't mean you should compromise what feels comfortable to you. The image of her will change pretty quickly if you compromise as resentment will rear it's ugly head and you will end up hating her. Stay firm and pleasantly adaptable until she brushes up against your boundaries and then, with some assertion remind her where the line is. She will have respect for this and know where she stands with you, as will your partner.
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2010, 07:18 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
You are on the right path I think, you just seem to need some confidence in that... just because she is nice and you enjoy hanging out with her doesn't mean you should compromise what feels comfortable to you. The image of her will change pretty quickly if you compromise as resentment will rear it's ugly head and you will end up hating her. Stay firm and pleasantly adaptable until she brushes up against your boundaries and then, with some assertion remind her where the line is. She will have respect for this and know where she stands with you, as will your partner.

This is a good point for anyone reading -

Sometimes people are passive about their boundaries. They will continue to push until they reach an externally-imposed limit. If they happen to over-step a boundary, they will not notice or not acknowledge unless the person whose boundaries they over-stepped says something.

I don't know if this is what is happening in the OP's situation or not, but this is something that I struggle with. It can be disastrous when the person whose boundaries are over-stepped is shy when it comes to speaking up about it.
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2010, 07:54 AM
Seekinganswer Seekinganswer is offline
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Thanks Redpepper,

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Really I think it's up to her. There will be no babies with your shared partner it sounds like. So you can both let her know that, there will be no living together it sounds like, so you can let her know that too. It sounds like it's not okay for him to just drop everything and go to her, so she shouldn't expect that either.
I think for now, she would rather be with S and put her future dream on hold. I find this suspect as I was very clear to both S and D about how far I would like to go which does not tally with her dream. Here's why.When we first talked about poly with S, he asked me what I thought about inviting someone else into our sexual life, kind of a good friend with benefits. No talk of long term living situation and certainly no babies..As S insists that his feelings for D are only enjoyable if I share with him, I have to be okay with whatever is planned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
So where does that leave things...? well, you are willing to share your time with her to a point. What is that point? how much time? when?
I can imagine a strong friendship with her based on our shared love for S and if we both get comfortable maybe even try to explore the sexual side of it. She can visit us occasionally, join us on family activities but along side that, she is free to move on if she met the right person for marriage and children. I do NOT want us to "marry" her so to speak.

And as NeonKaos pointed out, the dangers of not being articulate on boundaries are very real. While the ones we have so far hurt D because she found them restrictive, I do not regret pointing them out. Right now I am not comfortable pussy footing around some salient issues.

But what does S think? This is one is tricky, he has repeatedly said that he would like us to really try to enjoy without the pressure of the future talk. He in fact promised D that if she trusts him, she will be really happy!! Hmm.. note that he does not clearly state that there will be no babies, or traditional marriage or living together. To me this sounds like a silent promise and very very dangerous. When I asked him, he said that he does not want to hurt D. I told him he has to decide what is important to him: placating D and let her float around in her dream or be firm and let her know what he is offering. I will not tolerate such vagueness and if he wants this to work, I cannot be comfortable under these circumstances.

And D? I know from past discussions with her that S promised her countless times that she will have a "happy life". She has interpreted this before as an affirmation that he will give her what she wants (babies and living with her) I tested the waters and asked her directly if she is still hoping for the babies with S. She says,"I do not want to focus on that now", lets all just be happy. Vagueness again.

My take: We are doing a bad poly job of it as far as communication is concerned..no complete openness. Mostly, there are talks between her and him, me and him and her and me. Often, D does not want S to tell me some things and vice versa. One thing D does not know is that S would like to interact with other interesting women that we both like for various reasons. This he has not shared with D.He has a couple of female friends with whom he communicates and would like me to meet in the future. We are not doing anything about it yet because all our focus is on the relationship with D and quite frankly, its very demanding. So there we are..

Last edited by Seekinganswer; 12-09-2010 at 07:58 AM.
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  #16  
Old 12-09-2010, 08:25 AM
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ya, he sounds a little too vague. Perhaps he doesn't want to hurt her feelings. The thing is though that he will more if he continues to not figure out his stuff.

This sounds like a case of a primary relationship where the secondary wants to be a primary. There can be a lot of pain for someone who does not subscribe to the theory of primary/secondary relationships. Perhaps a conversation on this will shed some light on it for you and her. It could mean that the result is that she expresses that she just wants to be reassured that she is needed and loved by him and that you appreciate her being in his life. Secondaries need support too. This doesn't mean that you have to back down from your boundaries, but meet her half way and address some of hers.

There are some really great threads on what it means to be a secondary. If you do a tag search you should come up with some. There is one called "the secondaries bill of rights" or something along those lines. There is some excellent information in there I seem to remember.
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2010, 08:28 AM
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Here are two threads that might shed more light on your dilemmas

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2989

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1915
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  #18  
Old 12-09-2010, 09:53 AM
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If she really wants babies and he can't give that to her,he needs to let her go. She may be willing to compromise on that now but eventually it will come up again. I know this because I didn't meet my partner until I was 39 and he already had children,we thought about it and he decided no,he couldn't do it financially or time wise so I had to make a hard choice,stay with the man I love or leave and 'maybe' (in miniscule odds at my age) find someone I could have a baby with almost immediately.
It is no good her hoping he will change his mind if that's not going to be the case.
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2010, 10:09 AM
Seekinganswer Seekinganswer is offline
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Redpepper, I havent even read all of the threads yet but this is it...spot on. Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by idealist View Post
It's possible that an un-merged person who is demanding more time or attention ect. from a partner that is merged with someone else or merged with a family- is a person who is actually desiring to be merged and maybe doesn't realize it yet.
D gets unhappy and feels like this situation is something she has to bear like a cross. Her ideal was that she was to become the primary after our divorce because the poly matter wasnt tabled yet. Now she knows she cant be married to S yet that was what she expected.Given that polygamous unions are common here, she said she would be happy to be a second wife (with the same rights as I). Her idea of secondary is to have a home of her own where S visits. This is polygamy.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 12-09-2010 at 03:09 PM. Reason: remove personal info ("S"'s full name)
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  #20  
Old 12-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Seekinganswer Seekinganswer is offline
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You are right Fitchick
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Originally Posted by FitChick View Post
If she really wants babies and he can't give that to her,he needs to let her go.
This is my worry that S would like to hang on to this in the hope that she will be happy enough to be with him for now. We cant live like this! Neither is it fair on her or on me. Its like a noose hanging over our heads. I do also feel it gives her false hope that in time the situation will change. He told her to , "be patient" and she will be happy which could be misleading. What he meant is that she should let things flow as they are and she will still be happy with what we have.

So the last time she broke it off( apparently she has done so may times during the affair) she continued to work as his assistant and the tension could be cut with a knife. They ended up making up after 2 weeks and we were back to square one. Another attempt would have to be a complete severe of contact, other than that, its pointless to even try.
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