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  #881  
Old 07-02-2014, 03:14 AM
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It seems to me that Kensi didn't handle her end of the polyamorous deal appropriately. In addition, I don't think Matt wanted her to be a third parent, which is yet another reason why polyamory turned out to be such a bad idea for you guys. It's an open-and-shut case, really. Monogamy is working out 100% better.

You have the opportunity (in the present) to put your family first; that's what I'd do and not worry about where Kensi is on the priority list. Kensi already had her chance to be all too high on that list. Do right by your family and let the rest of life fall into place in its own due time. That's my vote anyway.
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  #882  
Old 07-02-2014, 03:53 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I can unequivocally say that Jayde's parents are quite simply bloody daft and complete and utter fucking idiots. I have never seen such determination to show the world, "Look at me. Look at us. Look at our "well-adjusted" child of a poly family." Meanwhile, the girl was coming unglued at the hinges and hating the lot of them. Congratulations to her parents. They formally and officially failed at parenting successfully or well at all. If I am not mistaken, she has severed all ties with her mum. I, too, foolishly thought that someone being with me meant they were on the same playing field as my child's other biological parent. How can more love possibly hurt a child? That logic works until it blows up and your child gets hurt. Love is certainly not fixing my relationship with my child. Straight BS. Kensi had no business being deemed a third parent or second mum to either of my children. I know some parents mean well, but third mummy or daddy may not be needed. I did it to make her feel like a co-primary and equal partner in our V. Mistake, mistake, mistake. She was too flaky to take on a role of that magnitude.

I have learned. Let a child decide what they want your partner to be to them. That was kind of the vibe I got from Jayde. This notion of third parent was shoved down her throat before she was old enough to vocalise and decide what this person was supposed to be to her, and she pushed against it because it was not natural or what she even desired. Her parents fatal mistake was not listening and letting her have a say when it came to that. IMO, this is no different than mum or dad remarrying and expecting a child to start calling the new parent mum or dad. Fucking a child's parent does not mean you deserve that title. Especially if your behaviour and how you interact with the child do not mirror that. Some people are not cut of the cloth to be a parent. It sounds like Jayde's parents had no business procreating. What a mess they have made. I am usually all for healing what has been hurt, but that girl is better off without her parents.

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It seems to me that Kensi didn't handle her end of the polyamorous deal appropriately. In addition, I don't think Matt wanted her to be a third parent, which is yet another reason why polyamory turned out to be such a bad idea for you guys. It's an open-and-shut case, really. Monogamy is working out 100% better.
I think life is running much more efficiently because I am not stretched beyond my means and running on fumes. I have energy for those people and things important to me. I never had the time to maintain a relationship outside of my marriage. I have more "free" time now but still no time for a relationship. That tells me everything I need to know.

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You have the opportunity (in the present) to put your family first; that's what I'd do and not worry about where Kensi is on the priority list. Kensi already had her chance to be all too high on that list. Do right by your family and let the rest of life fall into place in its own due time. That's my vote anyway.
Thank you for your vote. Family comes first. As much as being a mother wears me out, it is my single greatest accomplishment. Nothing can steal the joy that stems from me being a hands on mum and wife.

I have no idea where Kensi fits in. I have not thought about it. I will deal with her in time. *shrug*
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  #883  
Old 07-02-2014, 04:28 AM
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That sounds right to me.

Re: Jayde's parents ... they remind me of my stepmother: completely clueless and relentlessly overbearing. I agree that they had no business procreating.

Luckily, I don't think your kids will have to share Jayde's fate. They have a mum with sufficient guts and humility to recognize when something was a mistake and correct it. That stuff's in the past now, and good riddance I say.

With respects and regards,
Kevin T.
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  #884  
Old 07-02-2014, 12:47 PM
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Ry,
Just wanted to poke my nose in and say that I'm reading, and thinking about you. Sounds like the blowup between you and Kensi needed to happen, and I'm glad this stuff is getting brought out into the open, discussed, argued about, and whatnot. And I'm glad things are looking up for you and your daughter (and yes, I agree - you're THERE now. Deliberate and meaningful action goes miles toward rebuilding trust).

As for Jayde's parents, if this is the comment thread I read a few months back, then yes, I agree they were completely self-absorbed. On the flip side, it doesn't take poly to be self-absorbed, as you and Kevin alluded to - folks who remarry after a divorce and try to force the new partner into the family can do the same thing. My younger daughter likes Chops, my older one, not so much. Shrug. He's not their dad, and I told them flat-out that he's not going to try to be one. I'm just looking for them to respect him as a person. If I tried to make him their "stepdad"? Hoo boy, I could see THAT going over well.

As for "Sex at Dawn", I will just say this: agriculture led us to staying in one place, which led to the ability to pay attention to more artistic and academic pursuits. I will never consider that a bad thing, because... SCIENCE! There are other benefits to our species (life expectancy, for one) that came out of it, so to say it's a bad thing and we could all be happier in a big poly tangle all boinking each other as we hunt and roam totally ignores the fact that we are a hell of a lot healthier and long-lived (and, oh, have been to the moon and shit like that). I'm not bashing your enjoyment of the book, Kevin (even though it sounds like I am); it's just where I find fault with a lot of pop-evo-psych stuff - evidence is hand-picked to support a theory, without doing an analysis on how it all fits into the big picture. But, I guess that would be pretty boring to read.

Ah well... this was going to be a quick poke in to say I'm still reading and now look... BLA BLA BLA! Hope all goes well, Ry.
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Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 10), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
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  #885  
Old 07-02-2014, 07:57 PM
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Re: Sex at Dawn ... not a problem YouAreHere. Whereas I agreed with much of the book, their harping on agriculture was one thing I found a tad annoying. I mean they found a way to blame pretty much every bad thing that's ever seeped into the human race on agriculture. Whereas I'm more inclined to take your perspective on it. Development of new technologies is a good thing, even if it confronts us with new challenges. Kind of right-wing for me to be like that, I suppose, but ...

Okay, so back on topic. Just wanted you to know I agreed with your (whole) post.
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  #886  
Old 07-11-2014, 03:03 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Not much going on in my world. We took our children to Washington, D.C. and a few other places. Our girls are history buffs, so they were more than excited to see the Lincoln Memorial, White House, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial, Pentagon and the Memorial, Reflecting Pool, Washington Monument, etc. I had never visited the District of Columbia, so it was quite interesting to see all these important monuments and places I had seen in movies or on telly shows. Washington, D.C. was not what I was expecting at first glance. I was not used to seeing graffiti, bars on windows and doors, or the erratic driving. We ate at the infamous Ben's Chili Bowl and had cupcakes from Georgetown Cupcake. I had seen their telly show and was keen to try to them. They were quite delicious. I definitely gained a few kilograms. I do want to visit again because there was so much to see and do. It is a unique place for sure!

The good news is my youngest daughter and I were provided several opportunities to bond one-on-one. She had endless energy, and while Matt and our other two children were regrouping, we were out sightseeing and touring. We are slowly getting closer. She reached for my hand multiple times, and I left her lead the way--with the help of my mobile's GPS. There are little glimpses of hope. We were visiting the Natural History Museum, and she saw a pair of Marie Antoinette's earrings. She recognised her portrait. She told me, "Mummy, we have to visit the Louvre and Versailles. The King built Versailles because the Louvre was not big enough for him. She [pointing to Marie Antoinette] lived there and said, "Let them eat cake." She saw the Hope Diamond and recognised it as being "bad luck." My five year old was schooling every one around her. I am not surprised because she loves to read and loves history. If she wants to visit the Louvre, God willing and if I am living, I will make it happen in September/October.

I have not read Sex at Dawn. Is it worth reading?

I do hope you are all doing well. I am about to fix lunch for my children and get my son ready for his nap. I do have other updates, but they will have to wait. I have a short window of time to get any work done once my son is down for his nap.
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  #887  
Old 07-11-2014, 09:37 PM
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I think "Sex at Dawn" is worth reading. That is not to say I am a starry-eyed devotee; there were things in the book that I disagreed with, and still disagree (or at least take issue) with. But that actually has to do with one of the things I like about the book: It boldly challenges common assumptions, and forces the reader to think. My brain enjoyed the workout. Not that it is dry or technical reading, not at all. It is quite friendly and conversational, even entertaining. But it doesn't let anyone sit back with their complacent beliefs intact. One must figure out how to clarify whichever beliefs one wants to retain.

All that aside, I'd say I agree with about 80% of the authors' opinions. The two major items I take issue with are the ideas that:
  • all humans are naturally non-monogamous,
  • agriculture is the root cause of all human evils and sufferings.
Not that the authors come right out and say those things, but they certainly insinuate them.

Now I don't totally disagree either. I do think society at large underestimates how many humans are very adaptable to non-monogamy, and I can see (having read the book) how agriculture introduced many challenges to human evolution, and that we've a long way to go in overcoming those challenges.

The book introduces other particular ideas that I quite fancy, above all I think the idea that humans are much more sexually charged than society at large assumes, and indeed that human females in particular are usually singled out and far underestimated (and stifled) as regards their sexual appetite. The authors are also critical of the sex negativity that pervades so much of our world, and I'm right with them on that.

At some point in our prehistoric past, our ancestors split into two groups of descendants. One group evolved into humans. The other group split again and evolved into chimps, and bonobo chimps. In comparison, "regular" chimps are more warlike than bonobo chimps, while bonobo chimps are really, really slutty. The authors ask whether humans are more bonobo or more regular chimp, and suggest we are more of bonobo temperament. I agree about 50% with that notion. I think humans have both bonobos and regular chimps in their genes. Sometimes we make love, and sometimes we make war. Actually we do a lot of both. But that doesn't mean we're doomed to forever be natural-born killers. We have the will and the brains to choose our future evolutionary path. Ahem; at least that's what I think.

[shrug] I'm sure "Sex at Dawn" won't be everyone's cup of tea. But I, personally, would recommend it. Definitely worth the while reading, a fun romp for your thoughts and philosophies.
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  #888  
Old 07-12-2014, 02:01 AM
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If you have any interest in polyamory, Sex at Dawn is a good read.
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  #889  
Old 07-16-2014, 09:18 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Insomnia and a restless brain stopped me from sleeping. I stayed up like I did not have to work. I am not feeling all that wonderful today. Therapy days with Eis tend to have that affect on me. It has to get better. When? I cried on and off all night. I have no idea why. Depression is some bullshit. I do not have time for this.

Matt thinks I should take a leave of absence and take care of myself. Then, I can sit at home alone and remind myself just how empty and lonesome I feel. My career is the only thing I have not botched in my life. It is my outlet and escape from all that is going wrong around me. My emotions are stabilised because when I am on the clock, I am focused on everyone but myself. I am still not willing to get on antidepressants. I am sorry but being so doped up I cannot recall my name just to numb myself is not an option. I need to feel and allow myself to grieve and feel something that is not drug induced.

Things with my daughter go up and down. Her lack of trust is evident. She has no grasp on censorship, so her delivery is raw. She is outspoken and has verbal diarrhoea. She is emotionless unless provoked, and then, rage and violent outbursts transpire. There is a certain coldness when she looks through me sometimes. Then, there are days like Monday where she was with me the whole day. My oldest and youngest were at school and the nursery, respectively. We had breakfast at a cafe 30 minutes away, went to the zoo and aquarium, had lunch, attended a children's tiffin at the Langham, and went for a walk with hot chocolate before heading home. I let her lead all conversations and did not push. We baked sugar cookie monsters and watched Frozen. She snuggled up to me and fell asleep. After the movie, we picked up my other two children. She was well-behaved from start to finish. The high days are high, but the low days belong in the trenches of hell. I was forewarned to expect the night and day sides of her personality. One side of her is keen to warm up to me, but the other side fights it. The other side is a landmine filled with triggers and rage. It reminds me of someone with DID. I suppose therapy is helping her.

My MIL made a special trip here yesterday because she was concerned about me. I was just waiting for her to gloat and be smug. I told her, "Go ahead. Tell me just how bad of a mother I am. I know you want to." She pulled me into her arms and held me while I cried. She told me she could never because it was breaking her heart to see me like this. Her fear is that I will ultimately hurt myself because of guilt. My mum is in England, and I happily welcomed a maternal figure. I suppose my MIL does love me and wants me to get better. She told me if I was weak, I could not be strong for Eis because no matter what she says or feels, she needs me. As do my other children. My MIL volunteered to relocate here temporarily to lessen my load and provide me with the chance to focus on my mental health and well-being. According to her, my smiles are now forced, do not reach my eyes, and I look fragile and dead inside. I just may take her up on it. Therapy is slow going. I am of no service to my children if I can barely make it hour to hour without fighting the urge to cry or isolate into a dark room of wistful silence. One thing my child's therapist suggested was seeking a support group of parents of children with RAD/AD. Joy. I can recount my failures to a bunch of strangers. I am too much of a pessimist to believe it would actually help.

I will be okay. I do still have my health, children, a job, my life, and the love of a man who loves me through and believes in me with his whole heart. Every experience is room for growth, right?

I talked to Kensi. I am like a cheetah during a cheetah run when I am around her. Bait is placed, and I get to the max amount of kms to catch it and rip it to shreds. It goes from 0 to 100 in seconds. We tried therapy, and it was a bloodbath. The first 25 minutes were alright. The argument came up. The therapist asked if I had admitted any of my faults. I answered. She said something about me hurting her. I stepped out of my skin, and asked her, "Bitch, were you concerned with my feelings when you were smiling in my face and plotting to hurt me? When did you care about my feelings? Was it when you were jealous of my child? Was it when you were pretending to love my child to get closer to me? Or maybe it was when you had stretched your rope and decided to lasso me in, huh, Cowgirl? You spent years planning the most painful experience of my life and never once respected me enough to give me a say in how my life would play out, and you did not consider my feelings in the wake of you thinking you knew what and who was best for me. You, my dear, can slip a condom on, lube it up, and do me a favour: fuck your feelings raw." The therapist just sat there looking like, "What did I take on?" Poor man. We just might be too far gone for his help. Oh well. I foresee future sessions going like that because talking out tension only works with a level-head. Calm is not a word I would use to describe myself when it comes to Kensi. We tried therapy. Blood was shed. Why bother again?

I have to get my children off to school, but Happy Thursday.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 07-16-2014 at 09:21 PM.
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  #890  
Old 07-16-2014, 10:39 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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I loved visiting DC 2 years ago. My favorite was the WWII memorial. I took my then 17 year old, who is a military and history buff. It was fun watching him get so into visiting the museums and such. I need to go back when I have a few more days to see all the stuff I missed. We also went to Ben's Chili Bowl . I thought traffic in Los Angeles was bad, they are just crazy in DC, we walked a lot.

While I don't see anything wrong with sending the kids to grandmas for a day or two, every now and again, I would tread carefully in your situation and check with the therapist first. Now on the other hand, 5 year olds do tend to have absolutely NO filter on the things they say and have just enough knowledge on how to use it against you. Now, the rage can't be tolerated nor taken personally. If she goes into a rage, it's time to send her to her room until she gets it out of her system. When she's willing to be respectful, she can re-join the family. I tend to "rage" and it usually isn't reasonable and it needs to "run it's coarse" before my brain can function again. I have learned to recognize this and will isolate myself until it has passed. Both of my boys did these kind of things too (have holes in the walls to prove it). It sounds like she might cycle in and out of depressive moods like you are. Would it help to keep track of the good days?
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anger management, bisexual female, blame, break-ups, breaking up, changing loyalties, children, co-parenting, competition, coupledom, demanding partners, divorce, forgiveness, from poly to mono, healing, making excuses, married and polyamorous, poly co-parenting, poly to mono, primary/secondary, therapy, triad fallout, trust, vee dynamics, vee vs. triad

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