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  #631  
Old 09-11-2013, 08:51 PM
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Re:
Quote:
"I would not want a person to be a time filler or distraction for growing pains. It seems rather unfair to bring another person in because their partner is out with someone else. I would implore people to date people because they want to and not out of obligation or attempting to level the playing field."
Agreed.
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  #632  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:09 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Carrie Underwood - Cowboy Casanova

Happy Thursday.

I saw a thread about cowgirls/cowboys. Carrie Underwood's song popped in to my mind.

I wish I had listened when my husband was trying to show me the signs of having someone poisonous around me/us. Love makes you blind. My ex was a cowgirl, and I was oblivious to the obvious. My husband always suspected it, and I admittedly tuned him out when he came to me with his concerns. It was a warning, but my brain perceived it as something else. I downplayed his concerns and probably made him feel like he was losing his mind. He really picked up on it once he got to know her, and that is why things between them went down at an accelerated rate. She wanted him out of the picture and revelled in the fact that he was fed up enough to leave and contemplate divorce. She figured her work was done. That was always the goal. She was perfectly content talking to me while he was gone and being part of our lives, but the day I told her that we were back on speaking terms and willing to fight for our marriage, she just went cold. The fact that we wanted to save our marriage pissed her off. Two weeks later, I ended the relationship with her because being the only active one in a relationship was not working.

How twisted was her plan? It started years before the collapse earlier this year. She asked me years ago if we could close and that was when the plan was implemented. Everything she did was to get rid of him, and she almost succeeded. By everything, I mean everything from trampling all over his boundaries to forcing her way in as a third party in our marriage to always wanting more time (PaperGrace described my ex perfectly in the other thread) to not respecting time/schedules to always being at our home to working with him so he had to see her 8-12 hours at work and then see her after work, too. Her plan was incredibly calculated, and there were no signs because it could not be proved. For every argument, there was a counterargument on paper. For example, the work situation? Maybe she liked the benefits package the hospital offered. Another example: wanting more time? Maybe she misses you and would like to see you more. Being at our home so much? Maybe she wants to be close to the children and her family.

The sad part is she confirmed everything he tried to tell me all those years. Initially, she was unapologetic. Now? She has expressed deep regret, but I question the sincerity and why she wants to get back in to my good graces. To me, all of this was disrespectful because she did not respect our relationship, his role in my life, or even him as a person. She was smiling in his face and stabbing him in the back at the same time. His response to her confirmation, "I knew it."

As a result of all of this, I am struggling with whether or not this is someone who deserves to even be an acquaintance. Extensive history or not. I do not tolerate disrespect, and if you disrespect my hubby, you are disrespecting me. I am no rush to figure this out. I just need to work out my feelings surrounding it.
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  #633  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:53 PM
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That seems fine; take your time and figure out what you need to do to live with your own conscience. There's a difference between forgiving someone, and between letting them suck you back into their whirlpool. If you decide to accept Si as an acquaintance, I would keep it friendly and compassionate but light. Have firm boundaries in place that will not allow her to threaten your family again.

I am curious about how she will handle her future relationships with other people. I hope she has learned something from this one.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:54 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Reminds me of a song ....." mamas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys "

I file it under risks or costs of non monogamy. Blah blah blah ....on to more important matters .....an awesome red F type rolled up next to me at a stop light today and I thought of you ....what happened with that ? id think it's the perfect climate for a car like that?
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  #635  
Old 09-12-2013, 11:32 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Reminds me of a song ....." mamas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys "

I file it under risks or costs of non monogamy. Blah blah blah ....on to more important matters .....an awesome red F type rolled up next to me at a stop light today and I thought of you ....what happened with that ? id think it's the perfect climate for a car like that?
I saw one this morning at my daughter's school. I love that car. DH is of the belief that my three vehicles are more than one person needs, and that my desire for another car is a want. One was a push gift from him after our son's birth. The second was one that we purchased earlier this year after I traded in my car from 2008. The third was a birthday gift/fellowship completion gift from my daddy. I just made the final payment on the push gift. Out of all the vehicles we have, we have two car notes. We can handle a third one.

Since my daughter and I are going on a holiday, I am renting one for the week. I am viewing it like a week long test drive. If I like it, we might need to negotiate and do a trade in. Fingers crossed that I love it enough to buy it.

It is the perfect weather for that car.
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  #636  
Old 09-23-2013, 01:09 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I saw my ex on Friday. She invited me to lunch, and there were some things said that I needed to say and get off my chest. I saw another side of myself that I was quite pleased with. She started trying to spin her deception in her favour, and I politely told her to, "Shut the bloody hell up and stop bullshitting me because I can see through you. Try again with the truth and no excuses." It was cathartic to say everything I have been thinking since the truth was revealed. I told her that I was disappointed and disgusted that she would have been okay with me going through a nasty divorce and custody battle if it meant furthering her agenda. I asked what Matt had ever done to her? (Nothing. She just wanted me all to herself.) I asked how long she plotted to get rid of him? (Since 2007. My pregnancies stalled the plans.) I asked if dating and fucking him was part of it. (She admitted to as much.) I asked if she ever loved my children? (I did not really get a firm yes/no. It teetered on "caring" for them. I asked if she ever really loved me. (She claims she did, but after the previous revelations, do I believe her? No.) All she could say was, "I am sorry." It is too late to apologise. I sacrificed my marriage and family to defend her, and THIS was the thanks I got. I almost lost everything standing behind someone who had it out for my husband and wanted to destroy our family. My family is the most important thing to me, and she would have taken it away if I had let her. That is going to take some time to forgive.

I was pissed, and if my mother had not raised me better than she did, I would have bitch slapped the taste out of her mouth. I did not hold back because I felt like the least she could do was look me in my eyes and be honest. I deserved that much, and I got the whole truth. What to do with it? I am just going to bury it and move on. She proved why she has no reason to ever be part of my life or ever get close to my children again. The same goes for her family. I wish her well. I am stronger, wiser, and proud of myself for standing up to her. I know I still have some anger towards her. I am in no rush to resolve it. I am going on with my life, though.

Now the positive/non-poly stuff...

I am in the States on a private holiday with my daughter, mum, and MIL. The flights here were killer. MEL-LAX = 13 hours. The flight from LAX to our holiday destination = bit over 4 hours. We arrived yesterday afternoon a bit after 5 PM. Honestly, this is the happiest I have seen my daughter, and it is filling me up with joy. My mum and MIL are getting along like old school chums. I retired last night, and they were drinking wine and laughing about goodness knows what. I was unsure of how having both of them in such close proximity would work, but it has worked beautifully. My daughter loves having both of her grandmothers here, and they have been spoiling her since we arrived. My MIL flew in on Friday night, spent the night with us, and we were on both flights with her. She has been a dream, and we have been getting along with ease.

DH and our son spent the weekend at the beach home. His dad flew down for the week to help out with watching mini me and taking care of the home. He is awesome for that. Nanny J is also on duty for a limited amount of time. DH changed his schedule to 7-5 Mon-Thurs of this week. Nanny J will be taking him to the nursery, since it opens at 7:30, and DH/his dad will be picking him up. In addition to that, she is attending various events on my behalf. When I booked this trip, the dates for said events were not on the books, and I could not hold off. They had a guys' weekend in Portsea, and they had a very enjoyable weekend. I am sure they have been indulging in sweets and doing things they could not do with me around. There is a 14 hour time difference between us, but this has been the perfect way to do a check-in with our communication. So far so good. We were video chatting on the flights, and I talked to him before he went to work.

Le sigh. I have fallen in love with our holiday rental, and I would love to purchase the home as an investment property. We do not have any properties stateside. It is on the market, and my interest in it spiked the minute I stepped inside again. We stayed in this particular home last year when we were in the area, and it was newly constructed. It smelled like paint and new wood. The asking price is $2.65m. I am not sure why the price increased in June by $400k. It is a beautiful estate. The owners said the home is booked solid for the next 30+ weeks, and the new owners will have sole access to the funds, as they will be placed in escrow.

Considering the fact that we have a home in London, technically four properties in the Cote d'Azur (we rent them separately but usually as a whole), our current residence, and a beach home, I am not sure DH will go for the idea. I am going to pitch the idea and see where it gets me. What can I say? I love a good deal.

The holiday is going superbly well, and I am loving it here. My MIL and mum went to pick up dinner. We just ordered pizza tonight. A deep dish pizza, maybe? I have never had it before, but it looked and sounded positively yummy.

I am about to go eat dinner, get the duckie ready for her bath/bedtime, and get ready for tomorrow. I am not sure what is on the agenda for tomorrow, but I am sure it will be fun.

All in all, this holiday is going superbly, and I hope it continues to ascend higher and exceed my expectations. Then again, it already has.
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  #637  
Old 09-23-2013, 02:46 AM
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Sounds like good times to me. Glad you were able to get things out on the table with your ex and get past her sugar-coated version of the truth. It will be important information as you move forward and decide what kind of boundaries are needed there.
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  #638  
Old 09-27-2013, 03:37 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I am doing really well. I have babies on the brain. I really want another child, but I am not sure I want to carry him/her/them. The last pregnancy traumatised me, and I am not sure I want to subject a baby or my body to that again. I am in no rush. If we decide to expand our family, it will be in no less than 2-3 years, but we might have to use a surrogate. Technically, I had two C-sections last year. One in April for the surgery and another in June to deliver my baby. I would not wish that on my worst enemy.

The holiday is going really well. So well that we decided to extend it by a few days. Originally, we were supposed to depart on the 28th and arrive home on the 30th, but we are departing on the 2nd and arriving back in Oz on Friday, 4th October. I have loved being here with our mums and my princess. She is such a joy to be around and full of life and energy. This was the perfect trip for her completing her first term of school. My mum and MIL watched her earlier so I could have some "me" time. I have been having so much fun with the three of them that taking time to myself was unimportant.

Since the flights here were extremely long, duckie #2 stayed with DH. I have been waking up at 7a to read my baby a bedtime story. His face lights up when he sees me and hears my voice. He makes every day better than the last one. DH has been doing the same thing with my princess. The way we see it, there is no reason to disrupt their nightly routines, so we have been making it work.

DH and I are slowly but surely getting better. We had a counselling session two hours ago. We have covered all of the heavy and hard hitting issues in great detail. The scabs are healing and the skin is growing back. Si continues to be a pain in his bum and someone he cares not to talk about.

I hate the tags on my blog and want them removed. "Demanding partners" and "anger management" specifically. DH is not an angry person. He does not have an issue with poly or anger issues. He does not like Si. He is one of the most mild mannered, calm beings I know. Very sensitive, loving, tender, and he has a huge heart. He never yells unless it is at a sporting event. He gets passionate about American football. (We watch your Sunday night football on Monday mornings. Our cutesy bonding time.) He has never called me or anyone out of their name. In all the years I have been with him, he has never yelled at me or been disrespectful in any sense of the word. He has never told me how to live my life or how to run it. He is a good man and a keeper. It bothers me when people try to paint him out to be this passive aggressive, angry ogre with a raging temper. Please. The man has the capability to be softer than fairy floss. No, he is not a spineless, brainless, agreeable weakling who just goes along with whatever I say. He does step back, take time to figure out what is bothering him, and presents it when he is ready. He is strong, opinionated, and will not fall for any old spiel. The only time I have ever seen his anger spike is during the confrontations with Si. The second time she kept pushing and pushing because she knew his triggers. She was not banking on a reaction or him standing up to her, but she was in for a rude awakening. So he is NOT demanding and does NOT have anger issues. That is bullshit, and I will argue that down until the end of time.

I know he is having trouble adjusting to our new normal. He admitted his struggles tonight, and basically, he fears getting too happy with this arrangement. He seems to be of the belief that at any given time something will change it and take away this new found happiness. It seems like his emotions are detached sometimes, and I feel like it is a protection and defence mechanism, so he does not get his heart broken or walked all over again. He does have a wall up, and his guard is high. He still feels like he has to protect himself and his heart from me. I have every intention of removing that wall brick by brick, and I do not care how much time it takes.

Our communication has been impeccable. I have been talking to him multiple times a day. Lots of texting, flirty and romantic e-mails, some sexting, and nightly/morning Skype sex sessions. Generally, I am not in to masturbation, but a few glasses of wine and some encouragement did wonders. I have found that it has built up my body confidence. You cannot hide much on camera. I feel like the vixen and seductress in me is finally coming out. I have broken out of my shell, and I am confident with my sexuality. This should be an interesting journey.

I have decided that I want to avoid the black hole that is Si. I have too many concerns, and I do not want any stress in my life. My life is full and rich. I have forgiven her for myself, and I am getting on with this beautiful thing called life. I am happy and at peace. I have craved this for a long time. I cherish the time we had, and I sincerely wish her nothing but the best in life. I want her to be happy and go on to do amazing things. I just cannot put my family or myself through any of that again. I am done, and I have informed her of my decision. I hope that she will respect it and just let it be

I am about to go read/comment on some more posts and watch Criminal Minds.
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  #639  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:01 PM
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I am fine with you and Matt and the decisions both of you have made. I think Matt has gave the impression that he is an angry person, when the truth is that a decade of passive tolerance finally blew the lid off the pressure cooker. I think he vents on Polyamory.com, and some folks misunderstand.

Sometimes, the nicest people in the world have to draw a line in the sand. My oldest brother is the most peaceful, loyal person I know; wouldn't hurt a fly. But one of his loyalties is to the church, and that means monogamy is a principle of honor in his mind.

So, when his first wife had an affair on him (and got caught), he took it very seriously. He was willing to try to patch up the marriage until she said, "I'm going to start seeing the other guy again. Deal with it." He dealt with it by divorcing her.

Mind you, she had treated him terribly long before the affair. Much verbal abuse, exploiting his goodwill, and resenting his good relationship with his brothers. He and she lived with my wife and I for a few months, and I remember being awakened at 3:00 a.m. to the sound of her, downstairs, speaking harshly to my brother, when he had to be up at 5:00 a.m. to go to work. She didn't work and would sleep in til 2:00 in the afternoon.

But only when his moral principles were violated would he finally bring that frightful marriage to an end. And once it did end, he was quiet but firm about keeping it that way. He severed all contact with her. Years later she wrote him a letter from the depths of humility, admitting she had treated him wrongly and begging him to take her back. He didn't answer her letter.

I'm glad you and Matt are rediscovering your romance with each other, and I hope Si happily finds her way in life, but see no reason why you have to be involved in that. The important thing now is removing that wall Matt has up, one brick at a time as you said.

I'm sure you'll do fine. Enjoy the rest of your vacation.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:18 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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It just irritates me because our first counsellor tried to paint him in the same light. I see so many weak arse men, and I am grateful that he is not like that. Every one reaches a point where it stops being worth it or love stops being enough, or they grow tired of making excuses for poor behaviour. Basically, I deserve better than this BS.

I tend to be short when I feel like he is not listening to me for five minutes. Imagine five years of the same. I would hate me, too. He needs an outlet because keeping it bottled up is not the way to go. We do not need another day like in March, so if he needs to express himself verbally, on paper, or non-verbally, I hope he continues to find solace in that and forgets what others think of him.

It must suck to be in his shoes. Our counsellor asked who does he have to talk to about poly and any feelings surrounding it, and he was like, "No one." I found out why. He was never the poly one, so he has no support from that angle. He does not share the views, so there is a clash usually. He does not understand poly despite being part of a poly marriage. Mono minded people do not understand why he even married someone like me, so there is no support from them either. His friends try to understand, but he says they are little help. Of course he can talk to me, but like anyone else, I would imagine sometimes it feels good to release those feelings and work them out with someone other than a spouse or loved one. With no support from either side, it ends up coming off like he is venting. I have no advice for him on that. He tried poly support groups, and he said he felt out of place because he was the only mono person there, so he was unable to relate to what they were talking about. It has to be a hard place to be in, so I feel for him. Keeping him from shutting down and keeping everything inside has taken more work than earning his trust back.

I read a thread in the General Discussions that was started by Flowerchild, and it mirrored some of what he was saying last night. It made me think. She posed the question about wondering when or if a spouse ever had the right to step in and say something about a toxic relationship, and from what he was told, the answer was a resounding hell no. That advice blows my high because it is an inadequate fit for a situation like ours. Even if he had intervened and said, "Enough," I feel like the attitudes towards him would still be one of, "You should only be worried about your relationship and needs." What if his need was, "I need someone who respects my marriage and me?" Obviously that need was not going to be met. I need to ask our counsellor how in the world should we have handled that? I tend to believe the answer may not be as cut and dry as I believe.

Sadly, my own warped attitude towards him probably would have been, "He is trying to dictate my life, relationship, and threaten my happiness. He is bloody wrong." Realistically, I know he would never do anything to hurt me or threaten my happiness. I am now curious about what would have made that attitude the first response to him. With an attitude like that, he never had a fighting chance, and that is something that made me strongly re-evaluate how I come off towards him. For years, he probably felt like his wishes and feelings were inferior because he was the mono one in a poly world and "signed up" for this. He signed up to be part of a poly marriage and nothing else. I think we may spend years to undo what he has learned and picked up over the years.

I have had a lot of time to think this week, and admittedly, I am often not sure what to do or what to say. What am I supposed to say when he tells me the mono side lacks the ability to understand and the poly side swears he is just hateful, angry, mean, demanding, and cruel for wanting to keep our children away from Si? I have no clue where to tell him to look for a happy medium. He is not going to talk to another therapist about his most private feelings for an hour and a half every week. He does that once a week, and that is too much for him. I have no answers on this.

We have made progress, but we have a long way to go.
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anger management, bisexual female, blame, break-ups, breaking up, changing loyalties, children, co-parenting, competition, coupledom, demanding partners, divorce, forgiveness, from poly to mono, healing, making excuses, married and polyamorous, poly co-parenting, poly to mono, primary/secondary, therapy, triad fallout, trust, vee dynamics, vee vs. triad

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