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  #621  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:35 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Good morning. I am in really great spirits.

I am finishing up the final touches on our mum/daughter holiday. My daughter has been wanting to go back to Walt Disney World, and I am proud of her for getting such high marks this term. Her term break begins on 20 September, and we are flying out the following morning. As of right now, she has no idea. I cannot wait to surprise her. I am looking forward to spending time with my baby and making memories. We are going to Universal and Islands of Adventure, Legoland, Magic Kingdom, Animal Kingdom, Epcot, Hollywood Studios, Busch Gardens, and SeaWorld.

DH and our son are having their own father/son time. Our son is too young to enjoy Disney, and DH is not a fan of the compactness that comes with the territory of visiting the Magic Kingdom. When we return, that week will be set aside for family time/spring holiday here and in another location. We are still deciding where to spend it. As long as our children have something to do, I am not picky. Nanny J is coming along, but she is not going to be on duty much. Just long enough for us to have a date night or two.

Now for the other stuff. So my child walked up to me last week and told me that having three parents was abnormal. She said she was never supposed to have three. She IDed who her parents were--DH and myself. I immediately asked if someone had told her that, and she quickly reminded me, "No, mum. I do have a mind of my own." She understands about single parents, same sex parents, and all of that. None of those are abnormal to her. That brings me to the other issue. Our therapist seems to think that my daughter needs to face my ex and talk to her. I guess she is coming from the angle that empathy needs to be shown towards my ex and that her role in my daughter's life needs to be remembered. That might work if DH and I were the ones stopping her from seeing my ex. I do not know why people are not listening to me. I know my child and what is best for her. What is best for her is keeping her away from the one person she wants nothing to do with. Going against my own better judgement, I ran the idea past her in a hypothetical sense, and she went off. I wish I could feel empathy for my ex. I realise that my children being ripped away from her probably hurt deeply, but what am I supposed to do? Ignore my child's wishes in an attempt to be empathetic to my ex? That would require me to force my child to be around my ex when it is painfully clear that she wants nothing to do with her. I feel for my ex, but I think it is better to let my child move on and possibly forget that she was ever part of her life. It sounds cold and disrespectful to the fact that she was there from my pregnancy to this year, but unless someone else has advice, I am sticking with my decision to protect my child and value her feelings.

Well, we have to leave for morning school runs, so I am off. I hope everyone is doing well. Happy Wednesday.
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  #622  
Old 09-04-2013, 09:15 PM
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There's probably no need for your daughter to "make peace" with Si, but perhaps she could try on the idea that sometimes three-parent set-ups might work for *other* people. This way she doesn't have to change her own preferences for herself, but she can still be tolerant of other people's life choices. One thing that might help is for her to realize that the set-up with Si wasn't done the best way -- most importantly, that there wasn't consent all around (Matt didn't consent to the arrangement, even if he didn't put up a fight at first). Of course there is also the factor that it looks like Si wanted to "take over" eventually, perhaps even scoot Matt out of the picture.

Ultimately, your daughter will have to come to her own conclusions about what the people around her say.
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  #623  
Old 09-05-2013, 01:37 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
There's probably no need for your daughter to "make peace" with Si, but perhaps she could try on the idea that sometimes three-parent set-ups might work for *other* people. This way she doesn't have to change her own preferences for herself, but she can still be tolerant of other people's life choices. One thing that might help is for her to realize that the set-up with Si wasn't done the best way -- most importantly, that there wasn't consent all around (Matt didn't consent to the arrangement, even if he didn't put up a fight at first). Of course there is also the factor that it looks like Si wanted to "take over" eventually, perhaps even scoot Matt out of the picture.

Ultimately, your daughter will have to come to her own conclusions about what the people around her say.
I agree. I am tuning our therapist's advice out. There is no need to disrupt her new normal and stability.

She understands that it works for other people, but she is dead set on the fact that she should never have had a third parent; namely a second mother. Something about it is abnormal to her. I am trying not to push her to talk to me. I would prefer that she come to me and talk to me when she is comfortable. She asked why she had another mum, and I gave her the reasons like for support, someone to love her with all of their heart, someone to care for her, etc. She just asked, "Okay, but why did I have to call her mummy? Is it because you loved her like you love daddy, and I was supposed to treat her like you and daddy?" Nanny J and a list of other strong female presences in her life were listed, and she brought up the fact that she did not have to refer to them in the same way, despite them providing the same things Si provided. She made one hell of a case. What she said stuck with me, "I call you mummy because you're special in here (pointed to her heart). No one else can be my mummy, and I only needed one." Kind of hard to argue with that and find fault in that argument.

The joys of parenting a child with maturity and wisdom beyond her years. I think I dodged troubled waters in the future because my little ray of sunshine would have told my ex that they needed to talk, and she would have politely informed her that changes would have to occur.
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  #624  
Old 09-05-2013, 07:01 PM
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That girl has a bit of her father in her.
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  #625  
Old 09-10-2013, 10:49 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I am not in to the business of thread jacking, so I had to comment on my blog. I bloody hate when people tell people who miss their spouses, dread overnights, etc. to take up a hobby, get a life, get a new partner, read a book, find a support group, lose weight, work on themselves, deal with their shit, and the list goes on.

I have seen the "get a new partner" advice given to mono spouses, and I want shake the silly ninnies who suggest it. For someone like me who feels no sexual attraction to anyone unless I am in love with them, how in the world would that advice help ME?

I am a demisexual. I have only been in love five times, and with each of the times, the friendships had been established for a long time. Three were before DH. Only ONE (Si) was after him. Those connections do not happen all the time, so telling me to go find another partner would never work. If I had never met Si, I would never have gotten in to another relationship. I say that with certainty because I do not seek relationships or love. I am asexual and aromantic towards everyone outside of my spouse, which is why giving up the life I was living all those years was easy. 18 years and only 5 connections? The odds of it happening again were next to none because the last time it happened was 13 years ago.

Bit of history and how I chose poly: The first person I fell in love with was someone I knew for 12 years, and she was and still is one of my best friends. The second person was also in our circle. As was the third. It went from whatever open letter to an open V (always closed on my end). When I met DH, I was single but he knew about my relationship history and the V that had just ended before I met him. DH strayed from the norm. I was aromantic towards him when we first met and the following eleven months. I was like, "Oooh. He would be a really great friend. He is warm, funny, and charismatic." I appreciated him from an aesthetic point due to not feeling primary attraction. When I fell in love with him, it was like, "These are not the same feelings I was feeling six months ago. I need to figure out what these feelings are." It took a period of exploration to finally be able to say, "I am in love with you." It did not happen overnight. Only after I was in love with him, did the sexual attraction begin. To this date, he is the only man I have ever been sexually attracted to and active with. I still did not want to jump his bones immediately. One could say that poly was a situational thing for me, and it took months of introspection to realise it.

The sugar coated advice about sucking it up was hands down the worst advice ever given to my husband. I wish he had never taken it. We have spent months trying to undo years worth of this conditioning and this royally fucked belief system. I realise it is okay to have interests and hobbies, and I encourage that. I have interests that keep me out of the house for at least an hour 6 out of 7 days, so clearly there is nothing wrong with having an identity outside of being somebody's mum/dad/wife/girlfriend. His were unhealthy and masking a huge problem. He buried the negative feelings and channelled the emotions towards all the hobbies. It was like he believed that having negative feelings around something like poly that brought discomfort was wrong of him, so he found a way to cope, deal, and ultimately suck it up.

It came out when our therapist asked him what he really felt about being told to take up more hobbies and improve himself to deal with his emotions surrounding my desire to be a polyamourist? He told her that it was like someone was telling him to "suck it up." He felt like he had to force himself to feign happiness because anything outside of tolerance would mean he was issuing a non-verbal ultimatum, threatening my autonomy, and infringing on right to express myself. Additionally, if he did not like it, he needed to leave. He also felt like the advice to improve himself was out of place because it implied that something was wrong with him for not jumping for joy and going cuckoo for cocoa puffs about poly.

It has been quite an experience cracking in to his mind and pulling out those buried feelings and innermost thoughts. It has helped me to understand him and what he dealt with all those years. I would never suggest that someone cope like this. It is the height of unhealthy behaviour because eventually it will explode, and it did.

We are doing really well and in a healthy place. It has taken close to seven months to get to this point, but I will say that he is much more relaxed. He is not carrying around all of this and concealing it because he feels like it is not my place to deal with his emotional baggage. He went out last night for drinks and to the casino. He texted me to let me know he would be home around 12:30. Before, I had no idea where he was or when he would be back. Our communication is the opposite of what it once was. Our two styles are different, but they play off of one another. We are still practising full disclosure. He definitely trusts me more. Of course with something legally binding, I would breathe easier, too, and be more inclined to make building trust a bit easier.

I saw my ex last weekend as it was Fashion Week. We chatted for a bit. She wants to wipe the slate clean and start our friendship over. I told her that I would let her know because I needed time. I am not the type to harbour ill feelings. The friendship would not be on the scale it once was, and I have already told him. DH's stance is still keep her away from him and our children. I have no problem being cordial towards her. Calling her a friend? I have to learn to trust her again, and that is going to take him. I have to decide if it is worth it. She seems sincerely apologetic, but anyone can put on a good act. It will take more than words. We will see. I am not making any promises or guarantees because I am not trying to cause issues in my now happy and healthy marriage. The best I will probably be able to offer is, "If I see you, I will speak." I am not going all out of my way to put her back in my inner circle and let her have access to my world again. That could be the distrust, but I am not sure. I have prayed for clarity regarding it, and I am stepping away from it.

Duckie #2 is staying with me all day. It is really nice outside and springy, so I might take him to the park later. Other than that, lazy hump day with my little prince.
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Last edited by FullofLove1052; 09-10-2013 at 10:59 PM.
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  #626  
Old 09-10-2013, 11:33 PM
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As you have experienced, the philosophy of "pretending poly is okay" (fake it til you make it) doesn't always work. Maybe it works in some cases where one spouse is overly dependent on the other spouse. It's definitely not a "one size fits all" solution.

As you are already kind of doing, I would be very cautious about how much association you have with Si, but a cordial amount of association might be okay. There are serious trust issues there given the fact that Si admitted she had wanted to eventually nudge Matt out of the picture. You have a tough judgment call to make as to whether you think Si can turn over a new leaf. I'd take it real, real slowly, but it looks like you're already doing that.

I'm glad things are currently going pretty well for you, Matt, and the kids. May the relationships between all of you continue to flourish.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #627  
Old 09-11-2013, 12:00 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I honestly believe he tried his best to be okay with it and was for awhile. Like I commented on another thread, between my career and the other relationship, he spent a hell of a lot of time alone. My available time was divided amongst at minimum four people. Who gets married to be alone all the time? There are only so many hobbies, friends, concerts, projects, etc. that can fill that void. For him, all those hobbies did just that and they became things he was dependent upon. His hobbies were like his chosen drugs of choice. That is why he fought me so hard on changing even the slightest thing. They were ways to distract himself, numb any feelings of, pain or discomfort, and wear himself out to the point of just falling in to bed due to exhaustion. Entirely too unhealthy.

A career is something that is needed, so that can be justified. You can flex hours or cut back. A relationship? Not so much, and I think that is what he struggled with. He believed he had to respect the relationship, deal with overnights, and just bite the bullet. He probably tricked his mind in to believing that he could stifle any negative feelings, fill the time I was gone with hobbies, and be tolerant. It just stopped working.

I am hands off. I have no problem being cordial if I see her, but once someone shows me that they cannot be trusted, in the back of my mind, I will always wonder when or if they are going to do something again.

Thank you, Kevin.
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  #628  
Old 09-11-2013, 12:10 AM
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Always my pleasure.

Yes, I believe he tried to just bottle all those negative emotions in until it finally just exploded.

And believe me, I know how hard it is to choose an appropriate level of trust after there's been a major betrayal.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:10 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
I am a demisexual. I have only been in love five times, and with each of the times, the friendships had been established for a long time. Three were before DH. Only ONE (Si) was after him. Those connections do not happen all the time, so telling me to go find another partner would never work. If I had never met Si, I would never have gotten in to another relationship. I say that with certainty because I do not seek relationships or love. I am asexual and aromantic towards everyone outside of my spouse, which is why giving up the life I was living all those years was easy. 18 years and only 5 connections? The odds of it happening again were next to none because the last time it happened was 13 years ago.
We are dissimilar in many ways (I am not demisexual - for instance - I'm sexually attracted to lots of people - but sexual interest does not translate to romantic interest for me) but what you wrote here did resonate with me. I have been "in love" exactly twice in my life - the first time was my husband, and then, 19 years later, with my boyfriend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
... I bloody hate when people tell people who miss their spouses, dread overnights, etc. to take up a hobby, get a life, get a new partner, read a book, find a support group, lose weight, work on themselves, deal with their shit, and the list goes on.
From my standpoint this might be fine advice for some people and lousy advise for others. Some people seem to be at a total loss as to what to do with themselves if their partner isn't there (for ANY reason - dates, work, etc.) This is a totally foreign concept to me. I can't ever possibly imagine ever being "bored" - I've got 8 million things that I enjoy doing (by myself) that I never have time for...the boys were gone for a 3-week road-trip and, while I missed them personally, it wasn't as though I didn't have anything to DO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
I have seen the "get a new partner" advice given to mono spouses, and I want shake the silly ninnies who suggest it. For someone like me who feels no sexual attraction to anyone unless I am in love with them, how in the world would that advice help ME?
"Get a new partner" advice for a mono (or asexual/aromantic person) is clearly asinine. But you would have to know that about them already. For me the "get a new partner" advice is shaky on a different level - if your relationship is undergoing growing pains because your partner has added someone else...it seems prudent to wait until things have settled down before adding another person to the mix. (Dude and I were together for 2 years, past the NRE, the three of us well-adjusted to living together before he started "actively" looking to date someone else - it's going really well!)


JaneQ
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Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


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  #630  
Old 09-11-2013, 02:06 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
We are dissimilar in many ways (I am not demisexual - for instance - I'm sexually attracted to lots of people - but sexual interest does not translate to romantic interest for me) but what you wrote here did resonate with me. I have been "in love" exactly twice in my life - the first time was my husband, and then, 19 years later, with my boyfriend.
Right now, I am sexually attracted to one person, and it fascinates people. I might say someone is handsome or pretty because I appreciate their beauty like a piece of art, but the hormones are like flat lined. That was the disconnect with my ex. I loved her, but I was no longer in love with her. Thus the desire for anything physical exited the premises. Online dating, one night stands, and FWBs would never work for me either. The conditions have to be right for the possibility of feelings to occur, and I am


Quote:
From my standpoint this might be fine advice for some people and lousy advise for others. Some people seem to be at a total loss as to what to do with themselves if their partner isn't there (for ANY reason - dates, work, etc.) This is a totally foreign concept to me. I can't ever possibly imagine ever being "bored" - I've got 8 million things that I enjoy doing (by myself) that I never have time for...the boys were gone for a 3-week road-trip and, while I missed them personally, it wasn't as though I didn't have anything to DO.
Absolutely. It might be excellent advice for some. I just do not feel at loss when I am by myself. I can find ways to occupy my time. With children, I always have something to do and keep me on my toes. Matt was out last night. I finished the laundry, unloaded the dishwasher, paid some bills, got school clothes ready, took a bubble bath, had a glass of wine, and enjoyed a Criminal Minds marathon. I was enjoying my "me" time, so I really did not miss him. Alone time was lacking

My daughter is in school, and my son is in a nursery for a portion of the week, so I have all day to do what I want in my off time. I can finish household work early in the morning after I drop them off, and I am free until about 3. So if I want to eat grapes, watch Bold and the Beautiful, and walk around with rollers, I can do it.


Quote:
"Get a new partner" advice for a mono (or asexual/aromantic person) is clearly asinine. But you would have to know that about them already. For me the "get a new partner" advice is shaky on a different level - if your relationship is undergoing growing pains because your partner has added someone else...it seems prudent to wait until things have settled down before adding another person to the mix. (Dude and I were together for 2 years, past the NRE, the three of us well-adjusted to living together before he started "actively" looking to date someone else - it's going really well!)

JaneQ
It is shaky advice for that reason and many others. I would not want a person to be a time filler or distraction for growing pains. It seems rather unfair to bring another person in because their partner is out with someone else. I would implore people to date people because they want to and not out of obligation or attempting to level the playing field.

I am glad things are working out well with Dude and his dating ventures. That was a smart way of dealing with it, and I am sure it has made things significantly easier. I love happy news!
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