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  #601  
Old 08-18-2013, 05:21 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is online now
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Hi Ry,

Thanks for keeping this blog, and it'll be fine to me if sometimes in the future you want to add something, although I respect your decision to close that chapter.

I have found it valuable in hearing the perspective of someone who was poly, and has switched over to monogamy. I guess that's just my own opinion, but it's how I feel. All your writings have seemed relevant to me.

In any case, I wish you the best with your renewed vows and hope you'll have a marriage filled with happiness from now on.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #602  
Old 08-18-2013, 06:17 PM
CattivaGattina CattivaGattina is offline
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I know you may not read this but possible others may so I still want to make this post.

Did you really learn anything from what happened? Two of the things I noticed with Matt as his problems with the poly has two aspects.


1) The time away from him and the kids. So you don't have a girlfriend but you are active in 10 charities. That sill really doesn't allow you to be a good wife or mother.

2) Not caring about his input and requests. He doesn't want the beachside house, that is clear as day. But you so so "who cares about him, I'll buy it anyways."

While your ex isn't in the picture anymore you are still seeming to do the same things.
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  #603  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:16 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Wow ?...that's putting your money where your mouth is . His reaction ?
His only request was to make it fair, it must go both ways. I have no objections to that because the stakes are equally high now. It will balance it out, and it makes it so that I would not be the only one putting my money where my mouth is.

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Have you talked with the family attorney ?.?? Anyone try to talk you out of this ? Not that it's not a nice gesture but you got a 12 yr history the other way .
Yes, we have. Our attorneys said this in mild in comparison to certain agreements they have negotiated on, and they understand why I need to do this. They have husbands who request that their wives maintain a certain weight during the marriage, and if they are in breach of the agreement, they have to pay over x amount. There have been wives who wanted to forbid how much contact mother-in-law dearest had with the family. These are agreements that both parties signed. Ours is pale in comparison.

Our UK attorneys knew about the other relationship, so we had to bring the new ones up to speed. Once they heard the sordid history, I know their wheels were spinning thinking about all the different civil angles he could have hit me from if he had divorced me. These clauses will be protection for both of us. Our attorneys also asked if we wanted a sunset clause. Basically a sunset clause states that after x years, the agreement can be lifted. I do not want that. The only thing I want to do is renew it and modify it annually or bi-annually.

Quite a few people have tried to talk me out of it. "So if you decide you want another relationship, you will have to either risk losing everything, pay him for being the scorned spouse, try to get him to change the agreement, or just divorce?" Pretty much.

The more poly minded individuals who believe it is an orientation/wiring as opposed to my belief of it being more of a want/option/choice for myself, have tried to talk me out of it. At the end of the day, I am doing what is best for me and what feels right. I am confident in this because it is not one person making all the terms, and if there was something I disagreed with, there is no law that says I have to sign it. In that aspect, I am glad that we are taking the time to sit down and negotiate. I know myself, and I need something iron clad to serve as a reminder that what happened before cannot and will not happen again. I have something binding to make sure of that now.

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So you discuss this vacation home with your husband/ life partner he's not super sold ....he's more conservative ....his pockets aren't as deep so he says no.
We did discuss it in great detail, and we decided to split the costs. The owner slashed a nice amount off the asking price, so we are buying it. I guess they thought the price was the hesitation point. The price was never an issue, but I am not complaining.

We both presented solid cases when we discussed it. He did independent research and his own inspection of the home. He talked to the realtor and the owners. He priced other homes in the area. I was impressed with the delivery. It was like a debate with counterarguments and all. He was able to present his concerns. Namely that we just bought this house last year, spent a nick chunk on renovations, and still have two other investment properties. Like I pointed out to him, out of all the properties we have, there is only one mortgage (the house we live in now). We were way under budget with the reno. When we finished paying on our London home, we decided to put the money up as if we were still paying on it. In addition to those funds, the rental price per week is the equivalent of one month's mortgage, and thus far, we have had someone renting the home every week since we left. My best friend and her family will be taking up residence in our villa from the last week of August to the first week of November. However much we spend on this new holiday home, will be earned back before the end of the year.

Matt's pockets are deeper than mine. He is frugal. I have no qualms about spending money. He looks at price tags. I find out the amount as the cashier is ringing it up. When it comes to vehicles, he finds incentives and deals. He was able to wheel and deal on his last vehicle. He researched for almost three months. He saved so much that the dealership owed him a cheque after the purchase. He is the more practical one. He will never go broke because money management and financial planing are his niche. If he ever decided to enter the finance world, he would knock it out of the park.

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You say fine fuck it I'll do it on my own ya cheap prick ( joking ) ... I see that going 2 ways.... A definant end run ....or great I don't have to pay or deal with it. What was his reaction.
At first, he was like, "You are good." I think he was surprised by my relentlessness and willingness to foot all the costs. Then, it changed to, "Independence is sexy and a turn-on. My lady is a boss and a go-getter. I respect that."

Unfortunately, now he now thinks he has a place to go with those idiotic friends of his. Ha. They are not turning it in to a stag house. Some of his friends could be basis for the characters from The Hangover. Unexplained tattoos, forgotten nights, and just antics galore. He is the sane one of the bunch.

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What are the speed laws there ? A freind of mine just got the fx very nice car ....however I don't see this as an either problem ....personally. I have my own little fleet. I got the big suv ... Pickup truck ...vintage convertible ....and a supercharged mini cooper to do pretend racing ....oh yeah and my had/ has sedan luxury car.
The speed laws are very broad because they depend on where you are within the region. In a more rural area, it could be upwards of 110 km/h, whereas in a school zone, it might be 40 km/h. On the freeways, it depends upon the flow of traffic.

Pretend racing? Haha. I like speed, so I prefer cars that are designed for it. My need for speed is why DH is hesitant to ever give me any of his keys.

How many vehicles do you need? I thought we were bad! We have too many vehicles. Four alone belong to DH. One belongs to our nanny. I have an SUV and two cars. It has become an either or thing because I just bought my car. The last payment for my SUV will be taken out this week. The only thing we will have left on it is insurance.

We never wanted more than two notes at a time, and we have stuck to that. Three out of four of his vehicles are paid off. Nanny J's vehicle was bought outright to avoid a note. We have decided to pay off his last few in advance. We are not trying to drag it out until 2014. If we do that, we will only have one note, insurance on the vehicles, and there will be room for another note. I am hoping that he will offer to trade in one of his vehicles and apply the value to the new purchase. I would offer to do it, but the SUV was a push gift from him last year and the other car was a gift from my daddy for completing my fellowship this year. Seeing as how I do not really need another car, I am siding with him on the car issue. We are going to look at a larger SUV. The art of compromise.
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  #604  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:55 PM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Holy crap! Eight cars for three drivers?!?

I like to have 2 roadworthy cars for all three of us - since I ALWAYS need access to a car. The boys stay at home so they can coordinate their car needs. Sometimes 1 of the 2 is down while the boys are doing repairs (unsurprising as one is 10 years old and the other is 12 years old) - which is just annoying but do-able. We also have one broken down "fun" car for them to fix up and "play race" with in the future (not going to be street-legal). In a pinch, MrS has one working motorcycle and another that could be fixed up for Dude if he wants. All of those, plus the little tractor, make me feel like I am surrounded by vehicles I don't want or need (albeit with zero loans).

As the current cars inevitably die - I would like to replace them to look more like:

One daily driver all-wheel drive mini SUV - so I can always get to work.
One 4 wheel drive pick-up for the property - so the boys can get work done and go to town if needed.
One fun/pretend racing car - that is ALSO street legal - so everyone can use a car if needed
One motorcycle (possibly 2 - if Dude takes it up)
Upgrade the little tractor to something more versatile.
(And even THAT seems excessive.)

JaneQ
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Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
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  #605  
Old 08-18-2013, 08:16 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CattivaGattina View Post
I know you may not read this but possible others may so I still want to make this post.

Did you really learn anything from what happened? Two of the things I noticed with Matt as his problems with the poly has two aspects.


1) The time away from him and the kids. So you don't have a girlfriend but you are active in 10 charities. That sill really doesn't allow you to be a good wife or mother.

2) Not caring about his input and requests. He doesn't want the beachside house, that is clear as day. But you so so "who cares about him, I'll buy it anyways."

While your ex isn't in the picture anymore you are still seeming to do the same things.
I did learn, and we are still in counselling. Communication was an issue. Tuning him out was an issue. His concerns were later proved to be valid as my ex confirmed every single fear he had ever had and tried to bring to my attention. Time was the worst of all. It was too much for one person to handle. I just could not do everything in the 24 hours. Most days, I worked 12 hours. That left 12 hours divided amongst two small children, a husband, a girlfriend, and sleep. With sleep, that time had to be further divided. Point blank and simple: I should have done two or three things: 1) Ended the relationship with her before we started a family. 2) Gave up the idea of having a co-primary and co-parent when their bio parent was not in support of the idea. 3) Listened to him when he was voicing his concerns and worries about that unnecessary third parent.

I do not have a demanding relationship or career now. Nothing keeps me away from my family. We both have our respective interests, but I schedule them so that I am doing them while he is at work or on nights where he has plans. Generally, I do things after my children are in bed. I never want them to have to worry about why I am not there when they need me or just want me. Thus far, there has been no point where I have missed breakfast because of an overnight/date with someone else (there have been none and will never be any more), dinner, the bedtime ritual, or had to reschedule a date with him because I was just too tired to stay awake for a date.

I am no longer worried about, "Oh shoot. After my baby's recital, I have a date with Si and an overnight on the schedule." I have one person's needs to tend to, and my ability to relax because of that is delightful. I am not worried about living in the same house and seeing the person I am married to maybe 15 minutes out of the day. There were days like that I remember one morning like it was yesterday. He was coming in from work, and I was leaving to get to work. I saw him that day from 7:30-7:45, and do you know that I did not see him again until the next day? When I got home, he was back at work again.

I am not involved in 10. DH and I attended two different events Saturday night. Our children were with their grandparents, and we made sure we got home in time for the bedtime ritual. We did go back out once they were in the bed and sleeping peacefully. We had a froyo and Reggae date. I am making sure to only be involved in charities that will not detract time or attention away from my family. School has been in session since mid-July, and I needed something to do with my days while they are at school and DH is at work. I chose charity work.

Seeing as how I am only working 12 hours a week at this point, I have all the time in the world to do what I want these days. I work on Mon/Tues/Thurs. Usually 9-12 or 10-1. DH works Mon-Thurs. He is off every weekend, so that is automatically family time. He has cookie cutter and flexible hours. I have a lunch date with him at least twice times a week. Sometimes more. My daughter is in school from 9-3:00 Mon-Thurs and from 9-12:30 on Fri. At her school, 8:30-9, it is parent/child bonding time. We alternate spending that time with her. My son is in a nursery. Due to their regulations, he has to be there a minimum of three days a week. On my days off, he is with me.

I care about what he says and wants, but I am also a very strong-willed person. He knew that there was nothing he could say or do if I was using my personal funds for the beach house. I could have chosen to spin it like I needed something to call my own, and it would have had nothing to do with him. Instead of acting first, I listened to his concerns and arguments against it, presented my arguments in favour of it, and we came to an agreement after a lengthy discussion. I was not going to go over his head or do it behind his back. In the past, I would have and told him about it after. My ethical and honest efforts worked much better than my questionable tactics.
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  #606  
Old 08-18-2013, 08:39 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Hi Ry,

Thanks for keeping this blog, and it'll be fine to me if sometimes in the future you want to add something, although I respect your decision to close that chapter.

I have found it valuable in hearing the perspective of someone who was poly, and has switched over to monogamy. I guess that's just my own opinion, but it's how I feel. All your writings have seemed relevant to me.

In any case, I wish you the best with your renewed vows and hope you'll have a marriage filled with happiness from now on.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Thank you, Kevin. I have removed myself so far from poly that I feel shame to have ever been associated with it. As sad as that sounds, it is what has been going on behind the scenes. I do not want to talk about that side of my life. Our therapist said it is like my ex never existed in my world despite playing an integral role for over a decade. Tis true. That is how detached I have become. There are no pictures of her in our home. Her name is never said by us or anyone we know. Everyone has just kind of moved on and is following some unwritten code to never mention her again.

My recent remarks have left my therapist wanting to meet one-on-one with me. Our therapist asked why I felt the need to be so hard on myself, and I could not explain it. I was sitting at the airport with my mum and dad yesterday, and I was thinking, "I broke my vows for that bullshit? I am ashamed of myself. I feel selfish. I feel guilty. I feel like a fool. My parents raised me to be something more than a floozy and a sugar coated cheater." I am being incredibly hard on myself. She seems to think it is because I have walked on the other side of the line, felt some of the very things my husband has been feeling, and now the guilt and empathy have set in. She could be right. Eventually, we will discuss it, but for now, I have no desire to do so. I would rather just continue moving forward and never looking back.

Either way it goes, I will be okay. Thank you for your support and advice. I am glad my nightmare was able to help someone.

Ry
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  #607  
Old 08-18-2013, 10:42 PM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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I'm sorry, but I have to say this. You invited your ex to move half way across the world with you and the minute that she did, you break up with her and never speak to her again. Don't allow your children to speak her name, or have any photos of her in your home. That is some very cruel and cold kinda fucked up shit if I ever heard it.
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  #608  
Old 08-19-2013, 02:09 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I'm sorry, but I have to say this. You invited your ex to move half way across the world with you and the minute that she did, you break up with her and never speak to her again. Don't allow your children to speak her name, or have any photos of her in your home. That is some very cruel and cold kinda fucked up shit if I ever heard it.
We broke up back in March and moved in late June. We never got back together, and it was clear as the day is long that she did not need to move for me or even under the pretences that we would ever be one big family again. I made no promises because day to day I never knew what was going to happen. DH's feelings towards her were clear, too. She knew his endless list of boundaries to ever tolerate poly again. I addressed those on here, too. I think I listed 20 of them. She knew the odds of him backing down and ever allowing her to have contact again were non-existent. He made it crystal clear that poly was never to be part of their lives and that my ex would have no business being involved in parenting or seeing them. None of this was a secret.

No, I do not have pictures of her hanging up in our home. She is my ex and someone that I am no longer in contact with.

She and I were friendly until she confronted my husband in a public place, made a fool of herself, embarrassed us in front of our friends, and the whole truth came out. From that moment on, I decided that she had no place in my life. Perhaps if she had respected our marriage, his role in my life, and kept the dramatics, we would still be friends. That just happened a few weeks ago.

My child turned on her months ago. I have not heard her say her name since Lord knows when? I have asked her about my ex, and I have gotten no response whatsoever. Just silence. She stopped acknowledging her long before all of the recent decisions came about. At no point have we ever flat out told her that she could not see my ex. She never asked us. I mentioned that on here because it struck me as odd.

Our counsellor talked to her. My child told our counsellor that she did not want to see my ex or be around her. Our counsellor asked her why she felt the way she did, and she told her because she hurt her and was taking her mummy away from her. Yes, she started viewing my ex as a threat and blaming her for being the reason I was gone. I am sorry, but my child's feelings deserve to be respected. My child is not forgiving like me. I am not ignoring her to please anyone. Including my ex. It might make me cold, but my child comes first. My ex was informed of this, so it was not hidden from her either.

To respect my marriage and my husband's request, yes, I kept my children away from her. Since we have been here, she has not seen them. My child's feelings have everything to do with that. Could I have went against him? That would not have been too wise considering we are still rebuilding. Would I set out to hurt my child intentionally and force her to be around someone she distrusts? No.

It cannot go both ways. I cannot be told to listen to him on everything else and in the same breath go against him on the very thing he has made clear that he does not want and is not willing to roll over on. My hands were tied.
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  #609  
Old 08-19-2013, 09:14 PM
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I admit I feel bad about how things turned out for Si, but she did know things were on shaky ground. From Matt's writings, I could tell it just wasn't going to work out to have Si in your life. Plus her recent outburst and purposely pushing Matt's buttons doesn't help her cause.

I think it is counterproductive to try to figure out whose fault this was. No one was at fault or everyone played their own role in the situation. Mostly, I just think it was an unfortunate situation for all concerned.

Si is her own person, and can make her own decisions about how to live her own life from here on forward. Perhaps she will find it best to move back to the London area, if she has a support system of family and friends there.

You found that you had made an error in carrying the poly thing on for too long and too far. But it was not an error made maliciously; you did not mean to hurt Matt; you were just caught up in something and not realizing the extent of damage it was doing. As you came to realize it, you withdrew from the poly situation. We can't go back and fix the past, we have to focus on the present and do our best there. No doubt we will always have errors we become aware of as time goes on. Hopefully we correct the errors when we become aware of them.

Things did not work out perfectly but they seldom or never do in life. I have no ill will toward Si or Matt or you or your daughter or anyone else in this story. I just hope everyone can move forward and find happiness in life.
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  #610  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:42 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I feel bad about what happened with Si as well, but it was no secret that things were not levelled out and that as time progressed, the further I drifted away and abandoned the notion of ever having another relationship out of my marriage. I knew that with certainty the weekend we attended the wedding in Alnwick that the odds of a romantic relationship with her were not in my favour. I left it be and moved towards it being strictly platonic. My behaviour and conduct from that point on were indicative of it. Including the one day I spent with her after we moved here. We were together the entire day but never alone at any point. It was solely in public places, and there was no physical contact. Not even a hug. I treated her like an old friend. How I acted before she/we left was exactly the same.

It makes no sense to figure out whose fault it was. We all played a role in this. Obviously things could have been different.

She is her own person and made her own decision after being well informed of the reality of the situation. I have not talked to her, so I have no idea what her plans are. She might stay here, or she might move back to the UK. I have washed my hands of it all, and I am not backtracking. I wish her well.

I was stretched entirely too far beyond my means. I saw other people doing it and thought it would work equally as wonderfully for me. Not so much. The same people I looked at did not have the same type of career or half of what I had on my plate. That was the difference. Motherhood alone requires me to be on my toes 24 hours a day. There is nothing predictable about it. Everything from the child who wakes up at 2:30 AM to play with his feet to the rebellious child who does not want to wear the shoes that were picked out and feels the need to try on every pair in her closet making us late for church to the child who refuses to eat breakfast. I am seeing some things now that I am at home.

You are right. None of it was done in malice to either side. It was never my intent to hurt him or hurt her with the recent events. I am apologetic and empathetic to both. It was wanting to hold on to certain ideals and believing that things could stay the same when my priorities and responsibilities changed. Motherhood, a busy career, and just the basic functionality of life were proof that an additional relationship was not logical. In my career of choice, 80% of people I worked with were divorced or on marriages 2-4. If they could not handle a single marriage with the demanding nature of our careers, what made me think I could two relationships, two small children, and maintain sanity? Everything in my life took a hit which is why I am doing things so differently now.

In this case, I believe they worked out perfectly and the way they were supposed to. Was it the original intended path? No, but it is working out the way it was meant to. I have no ill will towards her. I am happy and at peace with every decision I have made so far, though. I am confident that I did what was right for myself, and I think that is one of the most important things.
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