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  #411  
Old 05-22-2013, 09:25 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
Yes there is a bit of a difference with and intimate relationship, there is an added level of emotions and sex. However, it's not unusual for people to ignore/neglect the more demanding side of life for the more rewarding things, where the ego is constantly stroked and your made to feel good. You talk about before you were only a 20% wife, the same happened with my husband and his activities. He allowed himself to be deluded that he was doing all these activities for his boys, when in reality, they wanted him at home - he was doing these things because it fed his ego. Household chores, being a good husband, going to sporting events, helping with homework was thankless, demanding, boring and never ending.
I can admit that I was lost and tied up in my relationship, so my marriage suffered. She required more of my time and energy, so there was a shift. It did not start off being an intentional thing, but it became routine and habit. Spending more and more time away from home, not talking to him, not considering his feelings as they were presented, and everything that followed came all too easy after a certain point. Subconsciously, I knew everything I was doing was wrong. I knew there were consequences. I knew I should have stopped and listened to what he was saying. Yet, I did none of those things and did what I wanted. For that, I was very selfish.

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Now, I know this has been beat to death, but was Matt's problem really with the "intimate" side of you relationship (even before kids) or was it because he was made to feel 2nd best?
Being made to feel second best. Matt never promised to accept it. He said he would try and work with me with no guarantees. The deal was I had to remember our relationship and its needs, not get complacent, and not put one relationship above the other. I did the opposite of all those things, and that is where the problem came in. I was gone more than at home. I was complacent. I put that relationships needs before our marriage and ultimately the relationship in itself before our marriage. Once children were added to it, my time and attention were further divided. By that point, I was establishing my career. It was too much going on, and I was being pulled in too many directions, so balance was lost. Couple the loss of balance with selfish choices, and it ended up being a mess.

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Not necessarily wrong, just way out of balance. Getting back into balance, can mean some extreme swings to the opposite of where you were, but eventually, things will level out. You guys have made a lot of progress, remember that.
I am trying to remember that. Things will level out in due time.

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If you can love more than one person at the same time, then yes! Now, being able to make it function is a completely different issue. There is no easy or right solution. Some things will work, some of the time, other times, nothing works. I think many poly people are situational poly.
I can love more than one person. That has been proven time and time again. It is the functioning part that is getting me. The pieces of the puzzle are not fitting neatly into place, and I am not sure they ever will.

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Have you seen your GP recently? Geesh, you medical professionals make some of the worst patients .
Matt asked me the same question and if I was pregnant. at that. Swelling in the first week weeks of pregnancy is common, though. I think it is just water retention. (It better be.) The joys of hormones. If it gets too bad, I will schedule an appointment and go in.
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  #412  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:51 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Something became clear to me when hubby dearest came strolling in well after 4 AM. When I asked why he was coming in at that time of morning, he cheekily responded by saying, ""At least, I came in before the sunrise, and I was not spending the night with someone else." He has always been direct, and he has no filter. It comes up and out. I asked for brutal honesty, and he delivered. It was not said in an ugly or rude manner, but that was clearly a shot taken at me. How do I know? Wednesday used to be date night, and I would spend the night with Si and return home to have breakfast with him and our children on Thursday morning. I could not even get mad. This is what he has been dealing with for years. I even said it sucked, and last night was my first full dose of it. Talking about feeling like shit after hearing that. Adding this to the drawbacks of poly.

He did not sleep in our bedroom this morning. He took a shower, got dressed for bed, said see you at breakfast, good-night, and walked out. No kiss good-night. No "I love you." He said he "preferred to sleep alone like he has always done from Wed-Thurs morning." The look on my face was enough to spark flames and ignite something. I was mad. I went back to sleep, but I tossed and turned until I woke up for good.

We had breakfast with my parents and our children. It was tense. My parents were trying to break up the awkwardness. My mum finally pulled me to the side when it reached a fever pitch. Mum humbled me once again. She basically said that she and my daddy were taking the children for a walk, and we better work out whatever the issue was.

We had a heated discussion over his behaviour and him basically staying out all night. He quickly reminded me that I was doing the same thing, just with a romantic interest, so my judgement of him was hypocritical and a double standard. He also said, "You have to remember that while you were out doing what you wanted, I had no one to answer to if I came in at 4 or whatever time. Situation has changed, and you want me to change my way of dealing with your absence because you think I need to since you suddenly have time for me, and you felt alone? Where were you when I needed some more of your time because I felt alone and wanted to be with my wife? Oh, with her. Miss me with that." With that, he excused himself and walked away. I hate to admit it, but he was right.

I did not see him again until much later. So much for "our" day. We drove to Oxfordshire in separate vehicles. I was with my daddy and my son. He had our daughter and was with my mum. My daddy and I talked over lunch. He pointed out something I might have missed. Matt is still hurting. Daddy seems to think that I am not grasping just how much I really hurt him. He could be right. He may not be hurting as much, but my actions cut deep. It was not only just in everything he said. It was how he said it. He wants me to feel what he has been feeling, so he is letting me see how it has felt to be him all these years. I cannot argue that I do not understand. I do understand, and it feels awful on so many different levels. Leaving me alone until the morning. He did this on date nights. Not texting/calling unless it was an emergency, so there was no contact after the good-night said before I left the house. The feeling of loneliness when he was the one person I really wanted to see and be next to? I felt that last night. I could have been out with friends. I wanted him, though. Making me sleep alone? Obviously I could not be in two places at once. Making me feel left out of this other life he has created because of me as a way to deal? I had a life he was not directly part of either.

Tonight was our date night. I thought he was going to cancel, but he showed up. We had another talk over dinner. It was much calmer than the one over breakfast.. I apologised for hurting him all the ways that I did, for not being there, and opened up to him about how I intend on making this right. I have created a blueprint, and I need him as a co-architect on this project called our new life. I have caused so much damage to the standing structure that it is more cost effective to destroy it and rebuild. I can say with certainty that we will be doing things completely different this time. I helped mess up the first portion of our marriage, and I will not allow myself to do it again. Before we can start on this new chapter, we have to get all of the bad/hidden/hurt/repressed feelings, resentment, and everything out, learn how to prevent this from happening again, and how to manage those feelings the proper way. We can do some of the work now and over the next several months or years, but it helps having that outside party helping to pull information out of us and showing us the correct way to express ourselves.

I am still not sure if poly fits into this new blueprint. For the time being, I am keeping that separate and on another set of plans. I know it makes him uncomfortable and brings up bad feelings within him. It can be argued that he dislikes it due to bad management, timing issues, selfish choices, and a laundry list of reasons. The fact still remains that he does not want to be part of a polyship, and it must be duly noted. I am not pushing the issue. We can agree on checkpoints, walk away from it, and get back to living as normally as possible. I am not bulldozing over his feeling to get what I want. Especially since it is not something I am 110% sure I absolutely do want again. I am simply focusing on the core which consists of my husband, our children, and myself. The core unit needs to be strong as it can be and solid. Our marriage requires my attention, work, and 100% effort from each side.

This is not to say that I do not love my ex-girlfriend and do not have moments where I want to be back with her. I do love her, but I need to manage one relationship successfully, figure out who I am again, and if functioning poly is an actual possibility. I can be poly and not live it. I am doing it now. I know what needs my attention the most. I have every intention of still working on our friendship and keeping her in my life. With the way things are now, a romantic relationship would leave her getting the short end of the stick, and I refuse to start and renew a relationship under terms like that. It would be definition of poly hell. I am strongly opposed to involving anyone new. I am not looking for anyone either. That would require me to feel like I need something else, and that is not the case. The only thing I could give her at this point is the title, so basically, a relationship in name only.

I am off to do some packing. We are leaving in eight days, and the suitcases are still empty. Matt is in isolation and thinking about things. It has been a very different M&R day. I hope the next one is not like this.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-24-2013 at 12:09 AM.
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  #413  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:18 PM
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Sorry your day went so poorly. I am thinking that poly is something that Matt is never going to be able to accept, and it is clear that he has plenty of poly already in his system that he needs to spew out. If he did ever agree to it again, it would probably be with all kinds of conditions, such as the additional partner being secondary, no overnights, etc.

I know your marriage is your priority, so that's what I would try to focus my thinking on right now. I hope you guys will have a good trip together.
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  #414  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Something became clear to me when hubby dearest came strolling in well after 4 AM. When I asked why he was coming in at that time of morning, he cheekily responded by saying, ""At least, I came in before the sunrise, and I was not spending the night with someone else." He has always been direct, and he has no filter. It comes up and out. I asked for brutal honesty, and he delivered . . . .

He did not sleep in our bedroom this morning. He took a shower, got dressed for bed, said see you at breakfast, good-night, and walked out. No kiss good-night. No "I love you." He said he "preferred to sleep alone like he has always done from Wed-Thurs morning."
That is not "brutal honesty." That is vindictive and vicious anger spewed at you in a passive-aggressive manner. Brutal honesty would be him sitting down and telling you that he is still angry about all the nights he was left alone. Confronting his feelings and sharing them with you -- that would be brutal honesty (and why should honesty be brutal? Why can't it just be direct or blunt?). Honesty is not saying shit like that! "At least I didn't do what you did, nyaah, nyaah!" The way he communicated to you here, was basically slapping you in the face and having a tantrum. That is a very childish way to express what is going on with him.

One thing I never put up with in my relationships is people throwing things back in my face and making backhanded comments like that. No way would my husband ever get away with that! I walk out of the room until that person is willing to speak to me calmly, directly, and with respect as one human being to another, no matter how angry he is. If Matt had taken a moment to look you in the eyes and said, "I feel hurt, and angry, and I want to punish you for the way I feel, and I think nothing you can do will ever be enough to make it up to me," then you have something to work with. Only then can you meet him as an equal and be truly able to make amends. But storming in and making nasty remarks, giving you the silent treatment, storming out... is immature, non-productive, and will get you nowhere!! I would never tolerate being spoken to in the way Matt spoke to you, and I would never speak that way to anyone else!

If you two are ever going to heal your relationship, Matt needs to start speaking directly about what is bothering him, and tell you his feelings in a rational manner without acting out like a child in order to make you feel guilty. He needs to grow the fuck up, learn how to communicate like an adult, and stop punishing you. And you need to stop accepting his speaking to you in that way. He shouldn't be browbeating you into submission.
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-23-2013 at 10:58 PM.
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  #415  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
That is not "brutal honesty." That is vindictive and vicious anger spewed at you in a passive-aggressive manner. Brutal honesty would be him sitting down and telling you that he is still angry about all the nights he was left alone. Confronting his feelings and sharing them with you -- that would be brutal honesty (and why should honesty be brutal? Why can't it just be direct or blunt?). Honesty is not saying shit like that! "At least I didn't do what you did, nyaah, nyaah!" The way he communicated to you here, was basically slapping you in the face and having a tantrum. That is a very childish way to express what is going on with him.
THIS!

If you guys are starting to re-build your relationship, he also needs to understand that he doesn't get to do shit simply as "payback". Sure he has a right to go out with his friends and you need to learn to be happy for him when he does. That doesn't give him a free pass to ignore all common curtsies and make snide comments when he comes home. You both made an agreement to stop the destructive behaviors and re-build, that includes, texting when your going to be out late and keeping each other informed of where you are and who your with. His action were way out of line. What's his plan, spend the next 11 years making you pay for your mistakes until he thinks your even?
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  #416  
Old 05-23-2013, 11:28 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
That is not "brutal honesty." That is vindictive and vicious anger spewed at you in a passive-aggressive manner. Brutal honesty would be him sitting down and telling you that he is still angry about all the nights he was left alone. Confronting his feelings and sharing them with you -- that would be brutal honesty (and why should honesty be brutal? Why can't it just be direct or blunt?). Honesty is not saying shit like that! "At least I didn't do what you did, nyaah, nyaah!" The way he communicated to you here, was basically slapping you in the face and having a tantrum!
It would be redundant for him to repeat that he is still angry. I do not need to hear it again. I know how he feels, so I am not surprised by how he is acting. It was only a matter of time before something triggered his anger. I was surprised by his whole "I owe you no explanations/not changing to appease you" attitude. He was unapologetic for coming in at that time of morning. I am not his keeper, but I am his wife. I said something like that in counselling, and he said, "On certain days of the week." He has come a long way since then, but when he said that, it was like a bitch slap. I have no problem with him going out and having a social life. I know he needs time away and has interests of his own. He can do whatever he pleases. All I want to know is if he is okay and when he will be home. A little consideration would not hurt. He knew I was at home. He knew I wanted to spend time with him. He still chose to do what he wanted. No regard for me or my feelings at all. It hurt my feelings for sure. If that was what he set out to do, mission accomplished.

I have faced far worse in counselling. This was pale in comparison. I am glad he walked away. I had no desire to be around him this morning. Just as he apparently has no desire to be around me right now. I guess being alone with his thoughts is safer than trusting that I am listening or that I care.

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If you two are ever going to heal your relationship, Matt needs to start speaking directly about what is bothering him, and tell you his feelings in a rational manner without acting out like a child in order to make you feel guilty. He needs to grow the fuck up, learn how to communicate like an adult, and stop punishing you. And you need to stop accepting his speaking to you in that way. He shouldn't be browbeating you into submission.
I know what is bothering him. I have managed to get that out of him. Words are just words. I had to develop a thick skin. His direct honesty is worse than any of this. Some things bother me, and I inform him immediately. I am not the only one fully disclosing. I asked him to tell me everything he is thinking. Not something he ponders over and gives a run of the mill, sugar coated response to. I wanted the first thought(s), and these were the first thoughts.

There is no sitting down and talking things out rationally. That does not work for us. He discloses what he wants and shuts down. He controls how much he opens up. That is a real picnic on a sunny day. He does not trust me with most of his feelings or innermost thoughts. He trusts me with the bad ones. I cannot say he relishes in making me feel guilty because even I have no idea of how I will react to what he dishes out. I have to be in the moment. His fear is that his feelings will be trampled over and ignored. Considering the history, he has every right to feel that way. That fear is not irrational like others. I cannot make him believe that I will never do that again. That has to come from within him. Without trusting me, that is impossible. He was disclosing some in counselling. It did not carry over to our home life. We have not been in counselling for almost a month, though. We are resuming next weekend.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:06 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
THIS!

If you guys are starting to re-build your relationship, he also needs to understand that he doesn't get to do shit simply as "payback". Sure he has a right to go out with his friends and you need to learn to be happy for him when he does. That doesn't give him a free pass to ignore all common curtsies and make snide comments when he comes home. You both made an agreement to stop the destructive behaviors and re-build, that includes, texting when your going to be out late and keeping each other informed of where you are and who your with. His action were way out of line. What's his plan, spend the next 11 years making you pay for your mistakes until he thinks your even?
I do not care about him going out. That is not a problem with me. We have different interests. He has just as much right to have a social life as me. That has always been fine. Lately, he has upped it. Leaving at 9 and returning at almost 5? I could see if he had been drinking, unable to drive, and decided to crash at a friend's flat. As long he or one of his idiotic friends called to tell me so I would not worry, I would be fine.

The sun rises around 5 AM. Strolling in through the door at 4:45 like he worked the graveyard shift, being unapologetic, knowing that I wanted to spend time with him, and showing no regard for my feelings? I do have a problem with that. Everything else that followed yesterday made it worse. His whole attitude was a turn off. People treat their roomies with more respect than I got yesterday morning, and I am his wife. I only found out where he was because one of our mutual friends tagged him in a check-in on Facebook. I asked him where he would be? "Out." I asked him what time would he home? "Late. You might not want to wait up for me." I did not. I went to bed, and when I woke up, he was still not home.

I am not sure if it is payback, him teaching me a lesson, or him just trying to be a pain in my backside, but he has lost his damn mind.
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  #418  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:13 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Sorry your day went so poorly. I am thinking that poly is something that Matt is never going to be able to accept, and it is clear that he has plenty of poly already in his system that he needs to spew out. If he did ever agree to it again, it would probably be with all kinds of conditions, such as the additional partner being secondary, no overnights, etc.

I know your marriage is your priority, so that's what I would try to focus my thinking on right now. I hope you guys will have a good trip together.
He needs to find a healthy way to channel his obvious anger. I am not seeing a single configuration where poly would be a happy experience for anybody. Another relationship would have so many conditions. It is just not worth it.

I am trying to focus my energy on our marriage, but he makes it hard. It will not be a good trip unless something improves over the next seven days. We might need to travel separately.
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  #419  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:56 AM
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I see, reading just this page, how my post in my blog pertains so much to where you are at right now.

I agree, that he needs to communicate in a healthier manner.

But-I will say,
learning that takes time, it doens't happen overnight.

It is important that he be able to express his frustrations-but not necessarily at/to you.
It is important that you acknowledge your mistakes and make concrete changes that will create a healthy future.
It is important that he do the same.

It is ALSO important that you both consider how TODAYS actions may be creating more pain for your relationship. If one of you is hurting and lashes out at the other-that's "new damage" each time.
Doesn't matter "who started it".
What matters is-when does it end?
(the damage causing)
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:08 AM
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My guess is that Matt had some kind of a bad day and it triggered in him an urge to lash out in some way. Add to that that he knew he was staying out way late and maybe he felt a little guilty. Sometimes people say mean things in an attempt to deflect guilt off of themselves. Doesn't excuse the behavior, just proposes that it probably didn't develop in a vacuum. It would be helpful to know what was going on beneath the layers of surface spewing, but I know Matt is selective about what buried angst he is willing to talk about.

Regardless, I am pulling for you, Ry. I hope things get better.
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