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  #21  
Old 04-05-2013, 10:13 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Default My Feelings

So I am supposed to inspire and encourage? Mmm-k.

This transition has not been easy. Contrary to popular belief, it is not some walk in Hyde Park or jaunt through Kensington Gardens. Please. It is more like quitting an addiction cold turkey. Love being the addiction of choice.

It takes just as much effort and time to transition from one to the other. If ever anyone thought it was just a matter of saying it and thy will be done, you are sadly mistaken. I am not sad over the end of my relationship. I am not an emotionally oriented person, so crying, listening to Adele or Etta James, or even wallowing in sadness is just not my thing. I would rather move forward and grieve in my own way. Lamenting about what was is pointless. It is not going to change my mind.

Poly taught me that sometimes the best things you want may not be the things you need. I have to be honest when I say that I am struggling to see the benefits. Oh I had the hubby who was "accepting," but what came of that? I was able to be myself, love who I wanted, and live in a bubble surrounded by people wielding sharp pins. My world just deflated and collapsed, but damn I am happy.

Here is the problem with that so-called acceptance. It came at one major cost. Matt resented me for what I believed in after my relationship took precedence over my marriage. All along he kept telling me, "Sweetheart, I only exchanged vows with one of you. If I viewed you both as equals, I would add her to the will, include her in postnuptial agreements, pay her alimony, have kids with her, and treat her like my wife." What did I hear all of that? Limited amount. You know he could not remember why he loved me? I was the same woman he married in 2002. The woman who was his best friend and could feel what he felt just as much and sometimes more. I was the woman who was there when the harsh waves of life crashed. I was his safe harbour. In the aftermath? I was the last person he wanted to be around. He left on Mothering Day morning. The day where mothers are honoured, and he could not wait to get away from me. Me. The mother of his children. The love of his life. How was I supposed to feel? I knew something had to change.

While he was gone, we talked every now and then. We used to talk every single day. We had lunch dates. We used to go for romantic strolls in the park and take weekend trips to are the countryside. We would disconnect from all technology and just enjoy being around each other. Crazy, huh? The opposite of what I just described. I spent that time working on myself. I had to figure out how I wanted to proceed. He was doing the same. His idea was to try to deal with the situation and work with me to keep the marriage and relationship. My idea was to focus on the marriage, let it heal, and work on us with no distraction or outside influences taking time or energy away from it. Much like certain people limiting the amount of partners they have. I have chosen to limit it to one to repair what we have and not worry about what I may or may not ever want. Living for today. Not for what may happen in 10 years. I did not cave to what my husband wanted. He wanted something different. I did not want him to have to keep compromising and being accommodating time and time again. Matt has been doing that. Clearly the formula was not working, which meant a new one needed to be created.

I never thought about how my ex's involvement with our children would ultimately explode. Here is a lesson for anyone reading this. Ask your partners how they feel about a person's involvement. Si was a co-parent without the responsibility. I agree that she should not have been given that title or even assumed that role. I shield the blame for that. Matt came to me numerous times regarding that very thing. I wanted an interdependent Poly family where all adults had equal say and rights. Red alert. Red alert. I could not have created a more messed up situation if I tried.

There was no balance. We were and still are parents 24 hours a day. We do not get to say, "Today feels like a nice day to be a parent." It is part of us until the end of time. Si chose when to be one. Family discussions regarding the children? She was there. Ballet recitals, doctor's appointments, scary dreams, and anything else? It was always if her social calendar allowed it. I never saw it until it was pointed out. We never limited her access or controlled how often she could see them either.

Matt used the analogy of asking his brother from another mother about buying a car without consenting with me. Finances involve every member of the family, so if he takes money from our holiday fund, that would be wrong. He brought it home with, "He is part of the family, so I/we should view him as an equal. You should be alright with me asking loved ones for decisions that involve you, me, or the kids and let them make decisions for us because they are "family." His whole argument has been that she was never part of HIS idea of family, so she should never have been given all those rights without proper discussion. I see that now. We can accept opinions from loved ones, but the final decision should always be ours to make.

In the wake of our untimely end, she has not called or asked to see the children. There is no rule that says she has to see me. I can arrange for a third party to be there. My daughter asked about her. I had no idea what to say. She wanted to know if she would be at her recital tonight. I cannot answer that. I would rather not because if I tell her she is and she bails...that would break her heart. I do not want her to get hurt by adult business.

I have no regrets.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-05-2013 at 10:30 AM.
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  #22  
Old 04-05-2013, 01:58 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Default Pet Peeve

Affairs do not equal poly. I had to say that. All the sneaking around and lying. I call total crap. Let's say your partner met someone before the first discussion of poly had ever even happened. Let's say they developed feelings and retreating from you and your marriage because of this person. Ding ding ding. All along this has been an emotional affair. Why the hell should they be allowed to keep the relationship going and have the audacity to ask someone to open? I do not know about anyone else but rewarding inappropriate behaviour and conduct does not fly in my book. You do not get to keep her/him and shade the hell out of what we have or even expect me to be alright with it or go play. First things first, control your feelings, work on whatever is going on at home, and avoid seeking comfort in the arms of another so-called friend. That same friend might have ulterior motives like the character in Jodi Picoult's novel, "The Other Woman." She told the woman she was going to steal her husband. Your spouse has the right to question every word that has ever comes out of your mouth from that point on. You may not have been sleeping with the person, but alienating someone emotionally is more damning than empty sex. Is that secretive confidant worth losing what you have? Also, stop getting mad because your spouse is not gung-ho about opening the relationship. Back off and give them time to figure if they want to stay with your too late to apologise ass is caught up in dirty NRE. You fell in like, lust, or love and he or she just has to accept your newfound polydom. Ugh. Behave. After the spouse has struggled to come to terms with an unfortunate situation, they seek support. I can feel the pain and hurt when reading these words. How can someone force you to just accept the hand and not have any negative feelings? One yesterday was that the husband was being hostile towards his wife because they needed to close relationship to give their marriage a fighting chance. He had met someone and developed feelings. The wife wanted her out the picture during this process. Woman's intuition will rarely steer you wrong. She thinks there is more going on than the husband is letting on. I gave advice but my real advice would be to let the husband know this hostility and pulling back from the marriage is not acceptable.

I am seeing more and more of this. Spouses of those people...stop swallowing your pride and rolling over. You are stronger than you think. He or she needs to learn that they cannot have what they want all the time. Life is not fair. Encouraging them after they have deceived you is wild. Why would you accept that kind of treatment?

Some affairs do manage to turn into poly relationships, but it usually ends badly. That same husband or wife ends up being on the outside looking in and fighting for their marriage alone. Sometimes the other person just chooses to abandon the marriage as a whole. Grass is greener type of deal. Then if it falls apart, they sometimes try to come back like you have just been waiting for them to crawl back. These actions are ridiculous. I know that I am nobody's spare or back-up plan.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-05-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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  #23  
Old 04-05-2013, 04:00 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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Default Couldn't Agree More.

While intense, and certainly feather-ruffly, I have to admit that I echo all of these sentiments. A relationship begun in deceit is going to end in deceit, from what I understand. It represents a fundamental crack in the practitioners integrity and ability to be honest and have discipline in their desires. It also doesn't say much about the level of respect inside the person they are getting involved with (provided they know what's going on). I don't buy the whole NRE thing; neither do I buy the "I was so drunk" thing. We're all responsible for our own actions. A solid character isn't an inherant right inside of humans, it's something that is developed and earned over time through good choices - and good choices aren't often easy choices, in my experience.
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  #24  
Old 04-05-2013, 06:20 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Here is the problem with that so-called acceptance. It came at one major cost. Matt resented me for what I believed in after my relationship took precedence over my marriage.
There's a good video floating around about Tolerance vs Acceptance. I would argue that your husband tolerated polyamory but never truly accepted it. That makes a huge difference in how he felt about everything else that goes with it.

Quote:
Si was a co-parent without the responsibility. I agree that she should not have been given that title or even assumed that role. There was no balance. We were and still are parents 24 hours a day. We do not get to say, "Today feels like a nice day to be a parent." It is part of us until the end of time. Si chose when to be one. Family discussions regarding the children? She was there. Ballet recitals, doctor's appointments, scary dreams, and anything else? It was always if her social calendar allowed it. I never saw it until it was pointed out. We never limited her access or controlled how often she could see them either.
Yep, that was a recipe for disaster. Granted, there are a lot of "breeders" out there who also tend to their kids only when they feel like it.

That's exactly why, when I fell in love with a man who had a child, I pointed out: "I am not going to be any kind of parent to your kid. I don't want kids. I accept that you have a kid and I accept the consequences of dating someone with a kid, but just so you know... when she's sick or needs to be picked up from school, imagine like you're still single." Not that that stopped me from voicing my opinions about how to raise her. I do the same thing with my friends who have kids. They're just my opinions, I'm not telling them what to do like I really have any say in the matter. But I've observed enough parents to have a good idea of what works and what doesn't, and I know helicoptering when I see it.
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  #25  
Old 04-05-2013, 09:37 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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SC - It was a sugar coated disaster. Matt came to me so many times, and I wish I had listened. It bothers me now because my daughter has embraced her and just like tonight's recital, she did not show up. I could tell my daughter was disappointed. That kind of stuff rubs me wrong.

I think Matt tolerated it. He never experienced compersion. She was not even in his peripheral. He knew she existed but had limited contact until last year. Years and years of no friendship. He spoke if he saw her, but going out of the way to acknowledge her? That never happened. She honestly was not part of his life until 2012. She was around but that was where it ended. What a mess.
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  #26  
Old 04-05-2013, 11:16 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I have to vent.

I am sorry that I am not some overemotional wreck over the end of my relationship. It took me five years to cry after my great-grandmother passed away. I was super close to her. I could not cry. I saw her body at the funeral and just looked at her. I put the fact that I would never hear her voice or see her again out of my mind. It hit me when I realised she would never meet my children or see the woman she helped to raise become something. You know how I reacted? I said screw God because any being or whatever does not deserve my praise for inflicting such a jacked up level of pain.

I know grief. I lost my aunt, grandfather, and great-grandmother in less than 12 months. Oh and my aunt was diagnosed with a strain of breast cancer that would have killed her in 2 months with no treatment. I am no stranger to pain. Walk in my shoes before you say anything about what I am feeling or thinking. You also cannot say how I am dealing with the end. Let me do this in my own way. If my feelings upset you, that is something you have to deal with.

I lost a very important person in my life, and the timing is fucked. I get that. Si has lost a lot in a little amount of time. I cannot repair everything on my own. Team work, right? I could not force her to attend counselling. I could not force her to understand why moving was important. Could she have been less involved after having discussions to reconfigure things? Possibly. Could I have kept them apart? Possibly but for how long? Would the ban of her being in our home ever been lifted? No. Matt has to live there, too, and if something makes me uncomfortable, I know I keep it at bay. Pushing this would have lead to even more arguments and drama.

I was not happy with the way things were going with Si. Do not call me a sorry ass person. I did what I felt that I had to do. My husband was on the other side of the planet and heavily contemplating divorce. My ex-girlfriend was shutting me out, angry over the decision to move, and avoiding me. Matt returned. She was upset. In the entire almost two week span of him being gone, I saw her a limited amount of times. I called and/or sent text messages every single day. "Do you want to meet for lunch?" The calls went to voicemail and texts were ignored. When we finally did talk a week before we broke up, she was upset because I was with Matt the entire weekend. Mind you, we had no plans, so I was puzzled as to why she was even mad. I still do not know. I found myself becoming more and more distant. She did not want to hear about me moving. That was an important thing in my life, and I wanted to share that with her. I was shut down. She did not want to hear about the agreements we had reached. Nothing that even pertained to her, but it was happy news because it was a glimmer of hope. She did not want to hear that. She stopped coming around our children, and the oldest noticed it. I brought it to her attention that mini me was noticing that she was not around. Her behaviour did not improve, and I know I never blocked her from seeing them. Hell, I was the one reaching out and inviting her to happenings in my daughter's life. "She has a recital at 6, or we are going to the park at x time. Can you meet us a Pret-a-Manger or M.C. because she wants you to help her pick out clothes?" She did not accept any of the offers. Our daughter is almost five, and she had been there since before she was even born. Of course, she was going to notice that she was missing. I gave her space and decided that if she really wants to talk, she will come to me, but I never expected that she would shut the children out. That was a red flag for sure. It is what made me start questioning her role as a co-parent. Even in divorce and hard times, parents have to focus on the needs of their children, and if she loved them, whatever was going on in either dynamic should not have stopped her from being there for them. They did not ask for any of this.

So no I am not shedding tears and picking up the fragments of my life. We all deal with things differently. If I see that something is not working, what am I supposed to do? Keep doing it and forcing it to work? That WOULD be stupid. Never did I ever say Si no longer fit into my world. I said I did not want a romantic relationship with her. If someone starts hurting my children or retreating from me, am I supposed to keep pushing or accepting that? I made the decision to focus on my marriage because it needed time to heal, and it required my undivided attention. My relationship was on unstable ground, and yes, it was stressful. Not just for me but for her. Continuing on like that was not healthy for anybody. It stopped being a relationship and became something beyond definition. We were just together. I know a lot had been going on, but I asked her how she was feeling and really doing? I seriously wanted to know. I assumed that she was hurting, but I never heard it. I was shut out then, too, or hit with the okie doke of..."Fine." After asking questions, I realised that she was not willing to talk about it. I stopped pushing her and pulled away. That is not to say I no longer love her or never cared for her. This is just a battle that I could not fight or win. I knew when to concede. The bad juju was going to carry over into my marriage. If we were already on rocky ground, how many times could I bring up my problems with her before they started overshadowing ours? Talking about a loss of balance again. It became too much to handle.

I never said I had just cut her out and etched her face out of pictures either. I have no intentions of doing that. Cutting her off would be saying stay the hell away from the children I gave birth to, changing my number, and ignoring her if I see her. I never said that. We can be cordial. I would like to get to the point of being friends, but I am not pushing the issue. Meanwhile, life stops for nobody. I cannot allow myself to be depressed or resentful over a breakup. It happened, and I have to move on. I read the stages of grief, but it is not my cup of tea. I am healing in the way I see fit, and it is sparking controversy and remarks from outsiders looking in.

I am empathetic to everything Si is feeling, and I never wanted to hurt her. I regret that things had to end this way. Realistically, I am not in the position to handle two unstable relationships that are on life support with someone standing there waiting to turn off the machines. I am teaching myself a lesson and accepting that it was just entirely too much to handle at once. I only have so much time and energy. If I am already weary and worn down from one relationship's woes, I knew that giving my all to another would end with somebody still getting the short end of the stick and feeling like I was only giving partial effort. That would be true and wrong of me on so many levels. We would be right back at point A with the math being off and making the same mistakes.

This has been a humbling lesson. Appreciate what you have before you end up with nothing. That is the path I was about to walk down. Disagreeing with my husband over custody, struggling to maintain my rocky relationship, dealing with a painful divorce, and the worst part of all: our poor children would have been in the middle. So if someone asks me was poly worth it...I will have to let them know at a later date.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-06-2013 at 06:05 AM.
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2013, 12:49 AM
wildflowers wildflowers is offline
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FOL, I hope this works out ok for you, but I worry. I see that what you were doing was not working, in that Matt was not at all happy, and clearly things needed to change. But you have undergone such a radical shift in perspective that it is hard to believe that it will turn out to suit you.

You say "I am struggling to see the benefits" [to polyamory] and perhaps right now that is true, but as far as I can tell you were happy for the previous 12 years, and that sounds like a benefit to me. And I don't really understand how you seem to be invalidating that.

Yes, it had problems; yes, it could have been done a lot better. And maybe you really do need to focus on your marriage right now.

But I worry that because of the current problems, and perhaps out of guilt, you are going to try to shut yourself into a box where you will not fit.

So I guess I just hope that the recognition of some new aspects to the last years of your life that you were previously oblivious to doesn't cause you to totally deny or negate what you did experience.

And I apologize if I've misinterpreted, but this is how it has come across to me.
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:19 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by wildflowers View Post
FOL, I hope this works out ok for you, but I worry. I see that what you were doing was not working, in that Matt was not at all happy, and clearly things needed to change. But you have undergone such a radical shift in perspective that it is hard to believe that it will turn out to suit you.

You say "I am struggling to see the benefits" [to polyamory] and perhaps right now that is true, but as far as I can tell you were happy for the previous 12 years, and that sounds like a benefit to me. And I don't really understand how you seem to be invalidating that.

Yes, it had problems; yes, it could have been done a lot better. And maybe you really do need to focus on your marriage right now.

But I worry that because of the current problems, and perhaps out of guilt, you are going to try to shut yourself into a box where you will not fit.

So I guess I just hope that the recognition of some new aspects to the last years of your life that you were previously oblivious to doesn't cause you to totally deny or negate what you did experience.

And I apologize if I've misinterpreted, but this is how it has come across to me.
No need to apologise.

It stems from feeling like it only benefited me. I was happy. I had two primary loves. I had double the support. I had, I had, I had. It feels like it was only about me and what was best for me. That is why I feel selfish. Initially it was guilt. Then, I stepped out of that phase. The question I started pondering was, "Outside of me who did it benefit all that time?" That is when I started thinking about the negatives and what was really happening outside of my happy bubble. My time was divided like a pie chart. Who would really be happy or merely content with giving A+ effort all the time in exchange for C- effort on my end? I realised that my hubby had made all kinds of concessions to be accommodating for my other relationship. Sleeping alone, picking up new hobbies, me missing things due to prior obligations, sharing parental responsibilities with someone he never viewed as family, and the laundry list goes on. I felt like he compromised too much. It did not matter in the moment. I was able to be poly-go-lucky self and be happy, but I have opened my eyes and started wondering at what cost? The irony is he does not feel this way, but I do.

Even now, in the aftermath of this war, people are still getting hurt. A 12 year relationship has ended. Like nothing. I know that has to hurt. It would have been 13 years in June. 12 years of love, ups and downs, celebrations, joy, bliss, euphoria, happy moments, and all these things. Now, it's just over.

By choice, I am just not focused on myself, so that is how I have negated every feeling and emotion from that time frame. I feel like it has been about me all along, so in changing and in an effort to be less selfish, I have changed that aspect and put the focus on someone else.

I do not know if I will be happy with this. I cannot say. I am happy now because I will not allow myself to feel anything else. I have to keep my emotions in check. DH is wondering if I am really going to be happy being the happy little "mono" wife? My only response to that is, "If I am not looking for something new or lamenting over who/what I used to be, I have no chance to miss it or yearn for it. I am focused on this." This shift has caught him by surprise, too. This is the last thing he was expecting.
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:39 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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No need for YOU to apologize either.
We all grieve in our own ways.
I see no wrong in you not crying right now-or whenever.

I often write out my feelings and that IS my grieving-and I feel so much relief from writing-that there is simply no need for tears.

I do so appreciate you sharing the ups and downs of your thoughts through this!

On the topic of affairs-
(see shamed face here)

I had an affair-and

I AGREE WITH YOU

It's wrong. Period.

But-to someone else's response, it's not true that we can't learn from our errors and change.
It DOES require a LOT of work and self-responsibility.
Many people aren't willing to put that work in.
But some of us are and when we do-we can change.

It's been 3 years 6 months 11 days since I set the record straight,
committed to complete transparency and honesty.
I have stuck to that without looking back.
It's been difficult.
The amount of consequences... omg that was demoralizing!
But-I suffered the consequences, some will go on for life. I've altered my attitudes, my behavior, everything.
I've made a REAL life. An authentic life. An honest life. A transparent life. A happy life.

I hope FOL that with all of this change, there is also some peace and tranquility. Some time for calm and relaxation. Moments of grace and overall, acceptance and forgiveness-OF YOURSELF for whatever you believe you've done wrong.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:49 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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LR - I have no time to relax. I keep myself busy to avoid thinking too much. I have peace in some sense of the word. I am not at the point of forgiveness for myself. I am not even sure that is what I need. My crosses to bear. Eventually I will forgive myself, though.

Ups and downs. The story of my life. Something positive must come out of this when it is all said done.

Relationships can survive affairs, but if one is already lacking trust due to dishonesty trying poly may end up being a disaster. I am glad things worked out for you.
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